So, my provider is on board with dropping HCG. He said: HCG will cause Free Test to jump up and that will convert more to E2. So holding that should do the trick.
Isn’t lowering Free T a bad thing for libido though? Still confused about the relationship between T & E when it comes to libido.
Do you think I should stick with Danazol ED, or reduce to less frequent (maybe EOD)?
I know a great way to raise free T. Take more T. Lol
If you felt better at 250mg and are currently at 180mg maybe try more frequent injections to keep levels at constant somewhat high range. Maybe even 200mg w/ more frequentl injections.
If you are stopping HCG I wouldn’t change the danazol yet.
Lol I love the “more T” approach more than anyone, but my total was pushing 3000 and free was 54, so I got advice to back it down. Seems like a wise long-term approach.
I actually messed around with daily injections for a couple months but didn’t feel any difference. It was just a hassle, so I switched back to 3X/week. Maybe the 200 mg/week isn’t a bad idea, though – that doesn’t sound terribly high, considering I’m already at 180. I just don’t want to put my long-term health at risk. But I feel like garbage.
Whether or not it lowers Free T will HIGHLY depend on whether your SHBG changes, and whether or not you are primary or secondary hypogonadism. If you are primary, your T levels won’t change very much, if at all.
Drop it for 6 weeks making that the only change, and then pull a mini blood test measuring just Total and Free T, E2, and SHBG. This will tell you EXACTLY how HCG is affecting your levels and then you’ll know for sure.
Got it, brother. Appreciate your thoughts. So you would stick with 25 mg Danazol ED even though I felt way better (obviously, could’ve also been because of the higher T dose) at 25 mg EOD?
I’m in the change one thing at a time camp. Low and slow brother so you know what’s affecting what.
I watched vids on the different hand positions and the take-away was it didn’t matter for building the back. I feel the palms in and the palms between in and facing me remove all the Painful stress off my joints.
How long have you been on your current dosing? I think lowering your danazol dosing wouldnt be a bad idea and lowering hcg would be another. One or the other though as I am also in the camp of one thing at a time.
My personal opinion is you made the right choice lowering your t. I do believe you should stick closer to “natural” levels as there isnt enough info out yet on how safe these higher levels are yet. Again that is just my personal opinion.
Hope you get feeling good again soon brother!
One more question to ask concerning your recent downturn…and I apologize if you already mentioned this and I missed it.
How have you been sleeping lately?
All good, man, I had not answered – sleep has been strong! I couldn’t sleep two nights ago, but that was due to work stress. Otherwise I’ve been out like a light, which has been great.
So, I originally lowered the dose in June, then again in August. I’ve been at the current dose for about 2 months.
I’m torn on the danazol. I will definitely drop the HCG for 6 weeks, but feels like I could get back to feeling like myself faster if I also decreased the danazol. Then again, I completely understand the “one thing at a time” line of thinking. Tough to make that call.
I’m not well versed in Danazol, but from what I have read so far the half life is only around 23-24 hours after exogenous administration for long term periods. I would think that if you wanted to try reducing that dose first, before dropping HCG, you would be able to make a reasonable assessment within a couple weeks, and then decide if you want to drop HCG after that based on how you feel.
I’m not sure of what other hormonal conversion happens with Danazol though so it could take longer? I know that HCG has a very short half life as well, but since it mimics LH, the effected systems will take quite a while to “settle” after the drug has been eliminated from the system.
Just a thought.
You lowered your dose. You had high SHBG. Do not blame estrogen trust me. I would also stop messing with SHBG.
Observing: You lowered your dose and either it’s not been enough time or your body isn’t happy with the free t you have. Too much of a drop.
I would drop the Danzanol. Your body will lower and normalize SHBG on it’s Own as you stay on a healthy diet and take trt.
A high SHBG is actually healthier than low. If I were you I’d stay where I’m at and stop lowering my dose and I also wouldn’t jump to conclusion like your doc is. It’s short sighted as F. On 250 you didn’t have e2 issues, but at 180 you are?
T is not consistent on dosing. 250 gives you 50, divide that in half you do not get 50% free to. You might get 10 or 40. It’s a variable.
I would be very careful here because you don’t want to start making a ton of changes trying to feel good.
Right now all you need is a dose change. You went from 250 to180 that’s a massive drop. Your doc made too big of a change. You should should have made smaller changes. 230 then 210 and etc.
Take some of that cream if you have any left over until you see him again and call it a day. I bet in days you’ll be just fine.
Thanks, brother. Maybe it just was too dramatic of a drop in T. I don’t have the cream. Do you think the plan to increase dose to 200/week (from 180), drop HCG, and reduce frequency of Danazol (thinking EOD or 2-3X/week) is a good one? Or would you just increase from 180-200?
I would go to 220 or 200 and take hcg. Remove danzanol you’ve lowered it to a healthy level. T alone we’ll continue keeping it low because it stabilized other functions that keep SHBG in Chad k.
You don’t want that dropping too much trust me on this.
Think “what dose do I need to feel great” you are not dealing with natural levels and therefore I see no reason to continue worrying about lowering SHBG any further.
For anyone curious – I’ve decided to make three changes:
Can you take 220? You are still lowering it allot bro.
I hear you, brother. A lot of mixed opinions on this one. I may work my way back there, and don’t think it’d be the worst idea in the world, but I’m going to take it slow. I lowered too quickly and don’t want to jump too quickly as well. I’m concerned (perhaps without merit) that a dose above 200 could be harmful in the long-run, so I’m trying to find my sweet spot. If 200 makes me feel good, then I’ll definitely stay there. I’m hopeful that dropping the Danazol + HCG will do a lot.
Testosterone has not been proven to cause harm in the decades it’s been studied. Look at the studies that show non TRT patients and which patients are healthy and not. The higher natural T is healthier and longer they live.
The problem is that people Make health decisions on what others say and not what actual science shows. Studies that are filled with holes and bias. So much nonsense goes on around forum boards based on something someone heard form their credible source. They sound convincing and pass it on. That’s where the estrogen fear nonsense came from. Give blood if hct is over 52 and etc
Main cause for worry on high dose T is the androgen receptors becoming saturated or desensitized. This is false. Watch the video below from Scott Howell and realize that the studies show there is no such thing as desensitizing and or saturation of receptors.
After watching this video you will also realize why it takes 3/4 months for us to achieve the beginning of success from trt.
Next all of these fears of heart attacks, blood getting thick and blood pressure is not the T. When we first start trt our bodies adapt and go through a flux. We do get water retention and weird symptoms. Blood pressure does increase a little, but it declines as you start to stabilize on trt and your symptoms all tend to decrease. Why? Because it takes time for hormones to work.
Every study that shows men are having strokes and heart attacks were based on men who had diabetes; low T doses and underlying generic illnesses. Bad hormonal imbalance. Polycythemia Vera. The doses weren’t even high enough or even identified: some were extremely diet studies. I’ve read many and none were done properly. Mostly observational as well.
When you find the right studies that follow healthy males (more prominent as of
The past few years) on trt you find that there is zero cause for concern.
Top researchers in the world will tell you that 90% of studies are false.
Lastly; many of the studies people have presented to me on high estrogen or high T issues are observational or based on rats and monkeys and or horrible patient population of men 60-80. Km yet to see a study of men on trt between 20-50 at healthy levels cause issues.
Anyways: most People use this as fact and don’t realize the are selling themselves short.
Watch these videos below . Rest easy. You have high SHBG and you need a dose that gives you feee t that makes you feel good. 250mg for you is 150 for me. It doesn’t matter how much total we have. Total does nothing to us. It’s the three hormones that are created from this total that we need.
