@enackers @rise80 FWIW, I think both of you know what you’re talking about. Just different ways to skin a cat and different priorities.
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Sorry brother for polluting your thread with drama lol.
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Standard comment - E2 check, lol.
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To me the cream is better because of multiple factors.
- Higher DHT
- A better balance of hormones.
- Less estrogen spikes
- No esters meaning it does not have to sit in the body for weeks and slowly release and process through the liver
- A closer mimicking of risky natural priducrion. Although this point is mute because we try to keep it stable on trt.
- Ease of dose changes. You can easily experiment with less or more. You don’t have to wait 6 weeks to see realize new levels. Make the change tomorrow and your free t is already at its new level.
- Libido is better. Jsut ask OP
- The hematocrit and other boood issues are not as much an issue on creAm as it is on injectable.
Everything else is convenience. Some don’t want to run creAm on their ball sack twice daily. Others don’t want to inject. We are not talking about convenience. We are talking about the benefits between both. I can see how twice daily is annoying. I do it twice daily, but it is worth the sacrifice of spending 3 minutes daily with my pants down. Or my other option was to Stab myself daily with injections. It takes longer.
I don’t recall all those responses you stated. I do recall absorption rates and they are very high with the cream. Scrotal application not arm or stomach. I take 100mg in am and I go 20+. Apply same cream to my shoulder or stomach and I’d need 400mg.
The research shows that the scrotum has alpha 5 reductase and this creates more DHT and therefore less estrogen. The scrotum also has massive absorption Becusse the skin layer is thin.
The cream does not process through the liver and shbg plays a role in the conversion to estrogen. Less issues with RBC hematocrit are expected.
The studies show that there are no large spikes of estrogen versus the injectable. My doc has hundreds of patients and he hasn’t had anyone on an ai when they use the cream. Many docs, including jay Campbell switched to cream and they all agree it’s better .
Your self realized experience trumps everything, but a doctor who specializes in Trt hd experience that doesn’t count? All I’m doing is relating everything he’s taught me and dicusssed with other experts on the HOT around tables. Including Eric Serrano, anthony llabres and so many more names.
For new trt patients Estrogen sides occur when you have an imbalAnce of hormones when receptors are not 100% online. The estrogen causes issues becauss they either don’t have enough free t, or not enough receptors available to utilize it.
This is why “give it 3-4 months” is impressed upon all new trt patients. The body and brain are changing. It doesn’t happen over night. Yet one little side people want an ai to fix it.
Now If one starts an ai prematurely they put the body in limbo. They are going to stop the body from fully adapting. When they take an ai they decrease estrogen and increase free t now that more serum is available for free t conversion. So the logical question is ; do they feel better Becusse they have less estrogen or do they feel better of increased DHT and free t? What’s really going on there?
If one gives trt seveal months and the symptoms are still there try increasing your dose to raise freee t and DHT. Instead of using an ai to increase free t and lower estrogen. This is the logic the experts have presented to me and as to why they see ai work.
There are dozens of guys in this forum and on the other group I visit that all quit ai. They increase their doses a tad bit and they feel even better without an ai. They felt fine with an ai BTW, but they did not realize how much better it could be.
I’m not trying to sound smart . I’m trying to relay everything I’ve learned by paying attention to experts from gut health , brain health, trt , women’s health, pcp, and other experts who practice professionally. Everything I’ve stated comes from their education and experiences in the real world.
So please wrap your head around it. Estrogen is your friend. What we call estrogen symptoms are an imbalance of hormones. Maybe call it a ratio; although there is not a true ratio we can abide by. Every man is very unique.
The other way to look at it is the following.
Men who start trt and don’t eat right ; sleep right or work out will have symptoms we call estrogen. Becusse the body is not able to keep a balance. They have way to much aromotizafion happening and after they lose the fat they feel great. Again is this estrogen or is it Becusse of an imbalance?
Food for thought. Maybe one day we can all realize this interesting perspective brought to us by experts in the field. Not bro science and body builders.
I realize you are on the cream. I’m just trying to help you fill in the blanks Becusse your comparison is based on your experiences .
Seriously man? I’ve heard all this before, I didn’t need a recap.
I have been on cream for damn near a year, I have nothing negative to say about it over injections so quit trying to convince me.
Again have a nice day.
You sure don’t make any sense then. Maybe I’m confused and I’m stuck in a conundrum.
“I’ve used cream for a year, yet I dispute your comments enakcer”
Ok have a nice day
I disputed estrogen, again I had higher estrogen on scrotal cream. I disputed absorption, not the fact of higher absorption, but on how much you stated. That is all, just particular statements you have made, I never talked down on cream itself.
Again the reason I want to move to injections is mainly a matter of convenience. Not necessarily benefits over one or the other.
So, use the cream.
End of discussion.
I think the convenience factor is actually a big thing. I really don’t mind the injections at all. TRT is a much more normal part of my life now, so easy to inject early in the morning and then forget about it for a few days.
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FWIW, my wife started cream a couple months ago and she HATES it. She said it’s so inconvenient every day to to have to wait until she takes a shower, then slather that stuff on, and then wait 20 more minutes before she can get dressed. She feels a lot better but the inconvenience of applying it every day puts a damper on the fact that she feels better.
Bottom line, she had a talk with her doc at Defy last week and she has Test Cyp coming in tomorrow evening. Twice a week injections, or even 3 a week injections, beats the hell out of any cream…ANY day!
Draw…Poke…Discard…get on with your life.
She’s waiting 20 mins and making it harder than it needs to be. To complex. Just put it on run it in and put clothes on. Lolll
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Curious about her dosage. I had a friend, female, that was on pellets, so am curious about test cyp dosage.
She was using 3 clicks on the cream. She was instructed to start with 7.5mg X 2 /week (total 15mg) on the injections. We will re-assess in 6-8 weeks with labs. Typical starting dose for women is between 8-12mg/ week.
I read somewhere that women have about 10% of the T levels of men, so that makes sense.
Thanks!
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Correct and Progestrogen / estrogen are the women’s testostorone.
I have to agree. The cream is a great option if you don’t mind the inconvenience. I may go back to it eventually — or maybe combine it with injections — because it is undeniably effective. The downside with injections is all the holes that pop up on your body. Given that I’m also injecting HCG and will likely be doing this for many years, I’ll probably be covered in holes if I continue injecting 3X a week. I don’t mind the injection process at all but I could see the scar tissue becoming annoying. Pros/cons with either approach, but happy with injections for now, and finally sleeping better after a terrible first couple months.
What got your wife to begin working with Defy? We have no reason to suspect anything is off with my wife, but I kinda want her to have a consult just for the sake of it. Not fair that only one of us gets to be optimized.
That’s a subject you you have to approach with kids gloves when it comes to the wife. Women in general are already told at least once a month that her hormones are out of whack (which they are) and that’s why she’s so overly sensitive to all the insensitive shit that us husbands do. Us guys have overplayed that hand so much that she’s sick of hearing it.
In my case, my wife saw the difference that TRT was making in me, both physically and in my general attitude, and she started looking at her own self and asking questions. She started wondering if some her own issues may be hormone related so I told her to just call Defy and get the initial bloodwork and consultation. If nothing else, it could give her peace of mind knowing that all systems were functioning properly. I told her that it was up to her if she wanted to actually start HRT from there, but it would be better to know if there where some things that could be off and lead to other health problems later.
She did that and hasn’t looked back. I think what really sealed the deal for her was that she was able to choose her provider. She was able to talk to a female practitioner that knew her shit, and being that she was a female, my wife trusted her to understand all of what a woman deals with, which btw is WAY more complicated than what we deal with.
That’s 90% of the hurdle with most females I think. Finding a doc who can explain things and answer questions, and also is not just another guy that says “hormones, that’s your problem!” . It means so much more to woman that’s having issues to hear these things from another woman who’s been through the same thing. She found that in Defy.
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I suspect that even my wife knew she was out of whack she wouldn’t do anything unfortnately. She has bought into the adding hormones may cause cancer bullshit. She brought it up with me the other day about my own TRT. I have to hold back my disdain for certain aspects of the medical community though as she is an MA at the hospital and those are her people. Which I suck at by the way.
After my most recent round of bloodwork, I was curious where some longevity biomarkers were sitting, so I asked for follow-up tests. I had them done Monday and just got the results:
The key numbers — HCT is midrange and has not changed significantly (45.7-46.3); same for HGB (15.5-15.6); and same for RBC (5.19-5.20).
Interestingly, I have seen big changes in ALT (34 in February, shortly after I first started TRT, and now 61) and AST (33 in February, 62 now). Additionally, ALP has dropped from 48-36. I don’t know anything about these biomarkers. Anyone here who can speak to the implications of these results — something to be concerned about?
As a reminder, my T numbers exploded on my last bloodwork. Total T shot up to 2889, with Free T at 543.1. The ratio of Free:Total T was significantly better than what I’d seen before — an encouraging sign — but I lowered my dose (from 260-180/week) because of warnings about the sky-high T levels and how those may harm my long-term health. I also increased Danazol from 25 mg EOD to 25 mg ED (SHBG was still high at 72), and upped my calories from 1800-2200 (to try to take advantage of all the T that I discovered was in my system).
Given these new results, do you think I should stick with that plan moving forward? I am very happy to see the HCT/HGB/RBC numbers, but not sure how to feel about ALT/AST/ALP.
Sounds like you handled it really well, man! My wife is open to the idea – I don’t think I’d need to do much convincing – and it’s great to hear that your Mrs has had such a positive experience with Defy. They do great work!
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