Why DHB? I’m unfamiliar.
Wanted primo. Found DHB reading about primo. Seems the pros are slightly more, and the cons really are the same with just added pip. 
No real reason other than it sounded cool, seemed relatively safe with no bad sides, and my source had great testing on it.
Lol I don’t think people around here care at all. All of us absorb test differently given genetics. I think it has a lot to do with our receptors. At 750 my TT would be above 3000, maybe even 4000, but the FT:TT ratio probably wouldn’t be any better than yours (perhaps worse).
Some guys are hyperresponders to test and don’t need to do much experimentation. Others (like us) just have to work at it more to find what works.
As long as you feel good, are making progress, and aren’t doing any real damage to your long-term health (which is obviously still a matter of debate), I see no issue with pushing your dose. Seems you’re approaching it intelligently.
Dr. Greg is a big fan! He says the anabolic effects are 2X testosterone.
So jealous of those dudes. I’d give anything to pin .5cc once a week and be great 
My thoughts as well. Even though I’m a believer in the range is just a range, I chose to stop trying to “dial in” once I got to the top. I have enough symptom resolution to be ok with, and I’m around that area the “experts” deem safe . I might try and go a touch higher one day but who knows.
I was also on an SSRI for a bit that completely destroyed me. I always wonder if that had something to do with the way my body processes hormones.
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Not a fan of the guy, but I’ve read anecdotal reports that it’s stronger. I can’t remember what the actual anabolic rating is as it’s been a minute since I looked it all up. So far so good though. I’m making progress, but it’s nothing earth shattering. I’ll get to where I want to be, I just think it’s gonna take me a little longer.
What’s wrong with Greg?!
My understanding is that SSRIs are almost never a good solution. So many people have bad experiences
No legit reason. Just some of the things I’ve seen said/posted by him here and there. Plenty of things I agree with him on, and I do believe he is a smart guy, just not someone I’ve ever turned to for advice.
He’s up there with MPMD as my favorites on YT. I love his passion for health/fitness and how simply he phrases things. It’s so easy to get in your own head and get confused with all this stuff
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Ain’t that the truth!
Two weeks without var and I’m noticing clear changes. Body acne is going away, I want to lift much more, libido is picking up, and I have more of a temper. From what I understand, var doesn’t have androgenic properties…it feels like those have been kicking back in as my SHBG presumably increases.
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Your var experience doesn’t sound great, “Augmented TRT” always sounds great but every time I read about a substance the sides just never sound worth it, I want to gain lean mass so if look at; 19 Nors - neurotransmitter interference and potential for serious life altering sides, masteron - not up to the task, EQ maybe, but probably not, plus the potential for HCT and anxiety problems, primo - would probably be decent but seems only to be available at 100ml/mg (round here) and is just too rich for my liking, Var - well your experience plus the kidney damage thing, tbol - maybe (liver damage and Lipid damage with all orals but recovery is reasonable), dbol - e2 sides/gyno - not a fan of poly pharma for managing side effects, any other orals probably too toxic.
Steroids are complicated and dangerous, and whilst I’m not overly concerned on the longevity side of things even in the short term these things can mess you up. Plus in my own personal circumstances I’m not able to train in a way that would even make them beneficial.
Well that was a ramble that no one needed - so back to you…
How’s the weight gain coming along? You joining the 200 club anytime soon?
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It definitely wasn’t, bro. The labs looked great…but I didn’t feel good at all. I felt like a headcase, having some seriously dark thoughts. I was also emotional AF – like a woman. I cried so easily during movies. Just illustrates that we can’t take labs as the end-all be-all.
This is an awesome summary, brother. I was hopeful taking something on this list in a small dose would yield the beneficial effects without the negative sides…but that’s probably a pipe dream and I don’t imagine I’ll go down that road again, at least for quite a while and not til I’ve done exhaustive research. I believe @mnben87 likes Tbol and @dextermorgan has had good results with Masteron.
I’m curious – why? I think most guys around these parts (including myself) care a lot about living long and living well. Or are you saying you don’t think “augmented TRT” (or just basic TRT) will have many negative effects in the long run?
It’s good! I’ve decided to hold my current weight (in the high 170s) for a while. It was starting to get just a little sloppy and I’m heading to Hawaii in September and would love to be lean. Though I don’t want to really cut, I think a recomp for the next couple months will be beneficial. I also believe there’s something to holding a weight for a time to let your body calibrate and very slowly add LBM/lose BF.
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That’s seriously no bueno! I think neurological sides are often forgotten when it comes to steroids, powerful things.
Yup, one I think about myself fairly regularly, even plan what I would do, but then I read another account of the damage and I’m like…nah. Plus I’ve just started saving/investing and I think of the long term opportunity costs of spending hundreds on AAS, and again it’s not justifiable. But then I think about being huge and ripped…and the (thought) cycle continues.
Haha read for a brief dive ninto to my philosophical life?
There are a fair few reasons, first and foremost I have a very strong faith (Christian) and therefore I’m not worried about when I go - but more than that: I am entirely joyful, happy, content and satisfied with life if I were to go today I am happy with that, I also know my family will be well cared for. But I’m obviously not looking to be gone anytime soon and understand the impact on my young kids would be significant, so I’m not reckless and am very happy for every day I get to be around.
There’s also a few other factors, I’ve seen longevity (2 grandparents currently in their 90s, 1 who died in late 80s and 1 who died at 65) it frequently ends in dementia or significant loss of quality of life, honestly I’d rather go at 65 of a heart attack than 95 drooling in a care home, confused and not recognising my loved ones. Other factor: I’m generally a healthy person, I don’t drink at all, don’t smoke, maintain lowish levels of body fat, exercise regularly (less so than normal right now, but hit up the cardio too not just a iron warrior), diet isn’t great (ate 3 burgers and fries from McDonalds yesterday but that’s s rarity) but it generally isn’t horrific and I monitor most significant blood markers thanks to TRT - on the balance of probability, barring accidental death, I’ll probably have fairly good longevity anyway.
I doubt regular TRT will have any major impact and a few moderate cycles of the “lower” impact AAS probably wouldn’t have a massive impact either, but even still I’m just not sure it’s worth it. Maybe one day…
That’s fair enough and …
I wouldn’t disagree here - keep us posted with the recomp and I look forward to seeing the winter bulk!
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From a muscle gain perspective Var was awesome. I gained size and strength on 25mg and 50mg daily. I didn’t feel awesome, and after 6 weeks I always cut it off because beyond that my bad mood and lack of sex drive doesn’t counter the gym gains.
As far as a long term-add to TRT, if my SHBG was elevated, I’d add in a small dose of Var (10mg maybe) for 8-12 weeks at a time
Totally something I’m learning firsthand. I don’t think T alone will really mess with your brain, even if you push a high dose, but the supplemental stuff definitely can, especially if you have a predisposition. I can’t even imagine what tren would do to me.
I hear you. It’s all about balance. In some regard, PEDs can actually help financially. I know when my T is dialed in, I perform better at work and make more rational decisions. Most financial mistakes are emotional mistakes - my big takeaway from The Psychology of Money.
This was so intriguing and well said. I’m with you on everything - even the Christian faith! Love your perspective, man - quite well-rounded. I agree that all signs indicate you’re headed for great healthspan and lifespan!
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What do you remember as far as your mood? I was having super dark, anxious, existential type thoughts. And I was emotional AF. Sounds like it hit me harder than you (and you saw more gainz).
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It must have. I didn’t have anything really negative, just shorter fuse and the lack of sex pisses everyone off lol.
Yeah 3 runs so far, all three eating at maintenance (calculated) but gained about 1lb a week for the 6 week runs. Strength goes up quick. I’ve yet to really bulk or cut on it for any length of time.
I’ve been taking GLP-1 during this cut and there’s some studies on guys on TRT showing it raises SHBG, so I had that checked yesterday and should get results posted in a week or so. If it has gone up I’ll add in the Var low dose to lower it
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Yea I’d be inclined to agree with that.
Haha yea can’t imagine it’d be good, but you’d look awesome for a few months!
Yes that’s true, better drive and clarity as well. Can’t hurt the finances and like you say balance, might cost me thousands but it’s not all about the money quality of life counts for more.
Hey a brother and a bro!
Thanks - I’d like to think that I’m reasonably well thought out and reasoned, I suppose my original comment on longevity was somewhat flippant. I don’t drive a motorbike despite wanting to, because I know I’d be reckless and I’ve known too many serious injuries and deaths (3 with some connections to me within the last 3 months) so I’m willing to take risks but it’s usually risk Vs reward measured.
Yes that’d be nice, As long as I’m like Jo Stockinger when I’m old I don’t mind! (Not that you always get to choose!)
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