You should never have undergone TRT to begin with.
Your story reminds me of me before using gear. 6’3, 185 tops, very lean, overworked and therefore overtrained, underfed. That was back in 2016
Now here you are, still not eating enough or rather still training and dieting hard, which cause the high SHBG and trashed thyroid labs, resorting to supraphysiological doses of testosterone to feel normal again.
And nobody said anything about your lifestyle the whole time. Just more “keep grinding hard bruh”. Talk about toxicity. Why does nobody want to admit they’re doing way too much? I’m including myself in here of course. My PCP told me I was overdoing it, but internet people told me I wasn’t even trying. The ego took a hit but I finally got it after a few years of nonsensical injections. Look, if your motor is a Fiat, you can try to do some customizing on your car, you still ain’t a Ferrari.
Not everyone, and those that do are usually using a caloric deficit in those last couple of weeks before a comp to shed that last 1-2%. Don’t know if you’ve ever seen a builder go from peak mass to comp weight, but they lose muscle mass during the “last ditch” cut. You could probably not stand to lose much muscle mass.
That should be your red flag brother. And yes, technically a short 2-4 week deficit won’t completely kill your metabolism (though it will start the process of slowing it down), as long as you recover from that pretty quickly. The longer you stay in the deficit, the slower your metabolism gets (until your mass dwindles to the point where that deficit is no longer a deficit), and some people have even started GAINING weight. Even if you don’t, when you come off of the deficit, your metabolism is much slower, so a NORMAL amount of caloric intake will actually make you gain MORE fat until the metabolism recovers. Do this for long enough, and the metabolism will stop recovering altogether and you’ll start having insulin issues.
Not really. Here’s why (at least as I understand it).
When you create a deficit through diet, you no longer take in enough calories to support your existing mass. When you create a deficit via using more energy, the body’s mass is not changing, only the amount of calories burned during a day. Therefore, if you’re taking in enough calories to support your mass (maintenance), and you’re burning a few more calories due to increased energy needs, then the body can pull from the fat stores to supply the energy needed to fuel the activity. Your body will NOT pull from fat stores to maintain your mass, it’s way easier for it to just reduce the mass.
I almost didn’t do it. That what my coach recommended. He’s a retired body builder. No injectables 10 day out and up the anastrozole. I’ve heard it a few different people. I finally just figured 10 days couldn’t hurt. I rebounded fine
Did you have your DHT checked while you were on cream? I scanned through your thread and couldn’t find it anywhere. Just curious if it is raised from being on cream and hasn’t cleared the system still. I would think it would have come down as you have been on injections for a little bit now, but I have no idea what the clearance rate of DHT is. My DHT was 260 last labs and was already thinking of moving to injections and that is increasing my resolve to now.
I appreciate your honest opinion. As you noted, I haven’t been hearing that, either on any forums or from any providers I’ve seen, so I’d love to hear more of why you think that I shouldn’t have started TRT, and what you would do now if you were in my shoes.
I should note that I haven’t been eating with this significant deficit for very long — just a month or two as part of a transformation challenge. I also wasn’t this lean before starting hormonal therapy. Before starting HOT in early 2018 (when my SHBG was near 200), I was eating much more. It seems to me that my numbers are all improving, though as you noted it has required a rather high T dose and other substances (e.g., Danazol).
The leanness is a relatively new thing; I had never been sub-15% until about a year ago. Where would you go from here?
Unfortunately, I did not have it checked. I was only on the cream for a couple months, so I didn’t have much bloodwork in that time. That does sound like a rather high DHT. Is your provider at all concerned? I know there are mixed opinions.
Yeah he is. He had me up my dosing of saw palmetto to see if that helps. If it doesn’t he wants me move to injections. I have been strongly considering it already though so good chance I will jump before then. The only thing that has been holding me back is the price increase. It’s not a lot, $20 more for 10-12 weeks versus the cream but I am a cheap bastard lol. That and adding in buying needles and syringes on top of it. If I could get him to send it somewhere else I could get it cheaper I believe, but he has a deal worked out with a local pharmacy so not sure if he would be willing.
Interesting. The injections are roughly the same – probably cheaper, actually – through Empower. Why were you considering switching? How is your libido/overall sense of self?
Thinking of switching for the same reason you gave on the convenience factor. Everything is relatively good so wouldn’t be switching hoping for improvement. Low or not I have never struggled with libido or ED. Believe erections should be harder but believe that to be more blood flow than hormonal. I get the job done just fine, just would like to see some improvement. Been a little sleepy lately especially evenings. Could be low E2 but believe I should have seen improvement as I have made adjustments to improve that. Need to investigate thyroid more thoroughly then when I started and eliminate apnea as possible causes also though. Gym and strength have all been good so bodily I feel good just fall asleep easily.
Cutting is tricky I’ll give you that but if you time your meals properly, and plan your macros well you can preserve almost all of your muscle while eating at a deficit.
During my cut I started around 2400 calories and finished around 1900 calories. Protein was always around 300 grams, fat was next to nothing, and carbs started at around 200-250 and ended around 80. During this 16 week process I actually put on a couple of inches in my chest and shoulders. I tracked my mass through measurements and my fat through weight and calipers.
The only measurement that dropped was my waist. That tells me I’m not loosing any muscle mass. The calipers went way down and my weight went from about 180 to 155.
I ate smaller meals throughout the day and never worked out fasted. Your body needs the fuel for the workout and then again to recover. I pumped a large portion of my calories around my workouts.
I’m sure that a long term deficit could real havoc on a natural competitor but to an enhanced (TRT) athlete I don’t think you’ll loose much mass
The whole point of eating high protein and frequent meals is to get your metabolism burning super fast. I would eat a meal and almost immediately be hungry. First meal no later than 7 am and last meal was around 10 pm.
I would always equate it to putting wood on a camp fire. To keep the fire hot you gotta give it frequent food.
I can only go from my experience. I ate at a deficit and got lean. Haven’t experienced any issues with metabolism at all
Just to clarify, what was your diet just before you started that cut? And what BF% did you start at and end at?
Not to discredit your experience at all, but you are an experienced body builder and tailoring your diets and routines around competition right? This makes a HUGE difference in that your body stays primed in a surplus of calories and activity most of the time, keeping your metabolism smoking fast. Add to that you very rarely let BF% get too far out of control, and you probably had a very good LBM to start with. Can’t really compare this situation to an average joe (not saying that’s the OP here) who is trying to do a bodybuilding style regimen when they have no real foundation to begin with. The more muscle mass you have, the easier it is to cut fat. Plain and simple.
And yes, timing makes a huge difference, but I’d bet money that you lost some muscle mass. You may have increased your chest measurements, but realistically…you probably didn’t have 25lbs worth of fat to lose in the first place mr shred!! Lol
Edit to add… I know my point is predicated on my making a few assumptions about you. If those assumptions are incorrect I apologize and feel free to set me straight!
I assume that my body fat was around 16-18% when I started my cut. You’re right I don’t let it get any higher than that ever. Before that I was on a maintenance phase at around 2700 calories. I believe that was around a month. 16 weeks prior was mass gaining at 4000 calories. I can see your point for sure though.
Thanks for the experienced bodybuilder compliment though! In reality I was a semi fat dad bod dude a couple of years ago and got sick and tired of feeling sick and tired. I set a goal to do a show and then gave it my all.
Out of curiosity, how much do you think I should be eating? I have 3 weeks left in this challenge, so I plan to increase my consumption somewhat for now (don’t want to put on body fat), and more significantly after it ends. I was at 1800 cals (40P 35C 25F).
At your current BF% it should be pretty easy for your body to tell you where you need to be. Add 75-100 cals to your daily intake for a week or so. Keep doing that every week until you see your definition starting to blur just a tad. Once you get there, back off a couple hundred calories and hold it there.
Do that and work your ass off lol.
I’d also keep a 40-30-30 split if that works for you, as long as that split allows for at least 0.8g - 1g per pound of body weight in protein.
That is correct. It did almost nothing for me, to be honest. I hope it yields better results for you, if you do decide to go that route. I’m glad I started there instead of jumping right into T, as it gave me time to experiment and learn more about hormones, but adding T has ended up making a big difference, whereas the HCG mono (plus AI) had negligible effects, both in terms of bloodwork and symptoms.