Reagan and Missile Defense

Leaders that fail to understand that their actions and words can give rise to insecurity in others risk becoming embroiled in a security paradox. An example is the Reagan administration’s Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), an Anti-Ballistic Missile (ABM) program intended to counter Soviet ballistic missiles in the event of a preemptive nuclear strike.

While Washington stressed that SDI was intended to be a “shield of peace” and that the Soviets “knew” that the U.S. would never carry out a preemptive nuclear strike, leaders failed to understand that their words and actions caused the soviets to be suspicious of the true motives of SDI and to plan for the worse.

Had their roles been reversed, American strategists would have been painfully cognizant that the successful deployment of ABM systems to defend against a Soviet preemptive nuclear strike would also leave the USSR more vulnerable to American strategic nuclear forces, undermining the stabilizing doctrine of mutually assured destruction. A strategy that was intended to bolster American security actually led to greater insecurity for both superpowers precisely because it did not account for Soviet fears. This underlines the argument that strategy which emphasizes the maximization of relative gains at the expense of a balanced consideration of the psychological dynamics of the security dilemma is overly simplistic, and provides limited value in the formulation of foreign policy.

What is the question or basis for what we are to discuss in here?

I’m contending that SDI was a naive foreign policy that actually made the United States less secure.

I don’t understand. The soviets would have, well, what? Have been motivated to get themselves nuked because of SDI?

I mean, if mutual destruction is enough to keep me from launching nukes, getting myself nuked into oblivion in a more one-sided exchange doesn’t seem like the option I’m taking.

I don’t know. Just not seeing it.

Someone will develop it eventually.

It was certainly naive and unrealistic especially for the times. Expensive, impossible back then,etc. hindsight 20/20. How much less secure it made us is the part I’m not getting really. Russia and the U.S. Both have the same capabilities in terms of wiping each other out.

The SDI “Star wars Defense Initiative” was a ruse puled off by one of the best actors of all time to put a squash on the cold war.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

…Both have the same capabilities in terms of wiping each other out.

[/quote]

What in your background and education allows you to make this assertion with credibility?

If your answer is merely a simplistic “Well, Russia has x number of ICBM’s and the US has y and x and y are pretty much equivalent” then you have a few things to learn about “same capabilities.” There’s more to it than that.
[/quote]

Why do you insist on trying to make positions for me I do not make? Almost every reply you have to me is a strawman over and over again. I said both countries capabilities are not different because of SDI. SDI didn’t make it to where Russia can’t bomb us and it didn’t make it to where we couldn’t bomb them.

Essentially it had no effect on security is what I was saying which is in response to what OP is talking about. Although if you’d like you can make my position whatever you’d like it to be as normal.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The SDI “Star wars Defense Initiative” was a ruse puled off by one of the best actors of all time to put a squash on the cold war.

[/quote]

It’s actually Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan repeatedly requested that the media drop the Star Wars moniker. A clever ruse it was not. It led the Soviets to fear that the true purpose of SDI was to support a preemptive strike by American strategic nuclear forces.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The SDI “Star wars Defense Initiative” was a ruse puled off by one of the best actors of all time to put a squash on the cold war.

[/quote]

It’s actually Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan repeatedly requested that the media drop the Star Wars moniker. A clever ruse it was not. It led the Soviets to fear that the true purpose of SDI was to support a preemptive strike by American strategic nuclear forces.[/quote]

Yeah. I remember watching it as it happened from this side of the pond.

The Russians are responsible for their own response to it. We could have launched on them from positions all over the globe, so it’s not like we would be lobbing missiles all the way across either of the oceans.

Trident missiles combined with Ohio class subs were the real threat. Why waste valuable time with ICBMs when we could fire them up from the North Atlantic, Mediterranean, and their Pacific coast simultaneously?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I don’t understand. The soviets would have, well, what? Have been motivated to get themselves nuked because of SDI?

I mean, if mutual destruction is enough to keep me from launching nukes, getting myself nuked into oblivion in a more one-sided exchange doesn’t seem like the option I’m taking.

I don’t know. Just not seeing it.

Someone will develop it eventually.
[/quote]

The key component of MAD is that a victim of a preemptive strike will retain sufficient strategic nuclear forces to retaliate in kind, inflicting unacceptable damage to its attacker.If the U.S. had carried out a preemptive nuclear strike against the USSR, a realized SDI would have been able to neuter much of the Soviet nuclear arsenal. Consequently, the Soviets were fearful of the true motives and intentions behind SDI. American strategists failed to understand that their words and actions could lead to the insecurity of others, failing to practice security dilemma sensibility.

Weapons (such as SDI) are the physical manifestation of the existential condition of uncertainty in international politics. They are ambiguous symbols, meaning that the same weapons that provide defense can also be used to coerce. This is dependent upon the intentions and motives of the actor wielding the weapon. For example, a firearm used by a homeowner to defend themselves can also be used by a criminal to extort an innocent.

Do you think that someone developing effective ABM is a good thing? Especially if it’s not the United States?

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I don’t understand. The soviets would have, well, what? Have been motivated to get themselves nuked because of SDI?

I mean, if mutual destruction is enough to keep me from launching nukes, getting myself nuked into oblivion in a more one-sided exchange doesn’t seem like the option I’m taking.

I don’t know. Just not seeing it.

Someone will develop it eventually.
[/quote]

The key component of MAD is that a victim of a preemptive strike will retain sufficient strategic nuclear forces to retaliate in kind, inflicting unacceptable damage to its attacker.If the U.S. had carried out a preemptive nuclear strike against the USSR, a realized SDI would have been able to neuter much of the Soviet nuclear arsenal. Consequently, the Soviets were fearful of the true motives and intentions behind SDI. American strategists failed to understand that their words and actions could lead to the insecurity of others, failing to practice security dilemma sensibility.

Weapons (such as SDI) are the physical manifestation of the existential condition of uncertainty in international politics. They are ambiguous symbols, meaning that the same weapons that provide defense can also be used to coerce. This is dependent upon the intentions and motives of the actor wielding the weapon. For example, a firearm used by a homeowner to defend themselves can also be used by a criminal to extort an innocent. [/quote]

Sorry, I’m still not sure what you’re driving at. What were the Soviets going to do? Nuke us before SDI became a reality, ensuring their own destruction? All in order to prevent a hypothetical nuclear strike by us after SDI went up? “In order to prevent the possibility of our destruction we must take an action that guarantees our destruction.” I don’t see it. If this was about prohibitive costs, and lack of technical can do, I could understand. But the above doesn’t make sense to me.

I wish mankind never invented the sword. But we did. Split the atom? Make a bomb! If we could push the redo button, the same outcome would happen every single time once the scientific-engineering milestones were rediscovered.

If this SDI/ABM ever became practical and effective, and a race by multiple nations and alliances to get them up happened, at least we all would have a chance of surviving a nuclear Armageddon, as each actor’s SDI shot down the others nukes.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The SDI “Star wars Defense Initiative” was a ruse puled off by one of the best actors of all time to put a squash on the cold war.

[/quote]

It’s actually Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan repeatedly requested that the media drop the Star Wars moniker. A clever ruse it was not. It led the Soviets to fear that the true purpose of SDI was to support a preemptive strike by American strategic nuclear forces.[/quote]

Yeah. I remember watching it as it happened from this side of the pond.

The Russians are responsible for their own response to it. We could have launched on them from positions all over the globe, so it’s not like we would be lobbing missiles all the way across either of the oceans.

Trident missiles combined with Ohio class subs were the real threat. Why waste valuable time with ICBMs when we could fire them up from the North Atlantic, Mediterranean, and their Pacific coast simultaneously?

[/quote]

Russians? Are we discussing the post-Cold War era?

How would the United States react if their roles had been reversed and the USSR was pursuing SDI? Could the U.S. trust Gorbachev when he said that SDI was “a shield of peace” and that Americans “knew” that the Soviets would never preemptively attack them? Could they trust him when he tried to assure Reagan by promising to give Americans SDI as well?

You’re missing the point completely. You actually reinforced my argument.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

Do you think that someone developing effective ABM is a good thing? Especially if it’s not the United States?[/quote]

No. It makes sense for “our” military to want stuff that other military’s do not have though. Surely you see why.

FWIW I’m against it either way, but I understand why the United States is ok with having nukes, but trying to keep other countries from having them. Not that it is necessarily a morally right move, but strategy wise it makes a lot of sense.

From a military perspective being able to do something that your opponent cannot do is a huge advantage. Whether or not one should be against something or for something in these debates is not how the military is going to look at it.

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

[quote]Bismark wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The SDI “Star wars Defense Initiative” was a ruse puled off by one of the best actors of all time to put a squash on the cold war.

[/quote]

It’s actually Strategic Defense Initiative. Reagan repeatedly requested that the media drop the Star Wars moniker. A clever ruse it was not. It led the Soviets to fear that the true purpose of SDI was to support a preemptive strike by American strategic nuclear forces.[/quote]

Yeah. I remember watching it as it happened from this side of the pond.

The Russians are responsible for their own response to it. We could have launched on them from positions all over the globe, so it’s not like we would be lobbing missiles all the way across either of the oceans.

Trident missiles combined with Ohio class subs were the real threat. Why waste valuable time with ICBMs when we could fire them up from the North Atlantic, Mediterranean, and their Pacific coast simultaneously?

[/quote]

Russians? Are we discussing the post-Cold War era?

How would the United States react if their roles had been reversed and the USSR was pursuing SDI? Could the U.S. trust Gorbachev when he said that SDI was “a shield of peace” and that Americans “knew” that the Soviets would never preemptively attack them? Could they trust him when he tried to assure Reagan by promising to give Americans SDI as well?

You’re missing the point completely. You actually reinforced my argument.[/quote]

USSR, Russians, what ever.

And of course the lack of trust was mutual. It was a nuclear stand off for Christ sake.

I still see it as funny though because it was like two guys holding each other at gun point until one of them says “You can’t shoot me because I have an invisibe force shield!” like we used to do when we were kids.

And it worked!

Anyways, whether or not I reinforce your point is moot to me. Is your point that creating imaginary defense systems to advance nuclear disarmament more of a threat than if we had stayed in a stand off?

This looks a lot like your Iran thread where you don’t make any definitive statement, but tell everybody else that they are either wrong for disagreeing with you or making your point for you.

Have a point? Make it. Loud clear and definitive!

Go ahead. Like this- “The U.S. was Wrong in rolling out the SDI to advance the process of nuclear disarmament and here’s why.” as your thesis statement. Then back it up with some facts, like exactly what the USSR did to plan for the worse as a direct result of out actions.

I am guessing that you are an undergraduate Political Science major? Or is this graduate school? This reads an awful lot like it came out of the latest Nye textbook.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

This looks a lot like your Iran thread where you don’t make any definitive statement, but tell everybody else that they are either wrong for disagreeing with you or making your point for you.

Have a point? Make it. Loud clear and definitive!

[/quote]

Yep and bingo.
[/quote]

Ummm, read the op? It concerns security dilemma sensibility. Then again, Push is of the “Evil Empire” school of thought.

[quote]smh_23 wrote:
I am guessing that you are an undergraduate Political Science major? Or is this graduate school? This reads an awful lot like it came out of the latest Nye textbook.[/quote]

I am not an undergraduate, and I never read a Nye textbook when I was. My views are more in line with the Welsh School of Security Studies than those of Nye.