So I’ve been thinking about this a lot, what besides donating blood improves hematocrit/thick blood?
I’ve heard that Telmisartan does this and more of course, lowering bp and so on.
Now is this true? Or what other alternatives is there besides donating blood?
Is it that high really? Or is it increased because you are on steroids which makes it normal then?
Mine is not high at all, I’m just at 100mg of test a week right now, I asked because I want to know for the future as donating blood in my country is not as easy.
So question remains, do telmisartan help with thick blood?
No.
If we talk actual thick blood, then stopping what makes it thick is the only way.
If we talk bullshit 5-10% increase then yes, but its not needed because it’s normal when on steroids.
Thank you for the quick reply, if one get high bp during a cycle then telmisartan could be used and gives a 5-10% help with thicker blood. Which is good to know.
So we don’t need to draw blood because it’s normal during a steroid cycle? So for example if one person does 500mg of test each week for let’s say 12 weeks that will increase red blood cells and so on during the cycle but won’t it stay even after cycle? Could you please elaborate?
Appreciate it!
You have to understand one thing.
When you take steroids, increase of rbc, hematocrit and other stuff is partly what increases the performance. It is WHY you take the drug in the first place. A 5-10% increase of anything, should never be killed down by taking MORE drugs. Its ridiculous idea, that you take drugs to increase the rbc and then take drugs to decrease it.
What im trying to say is, that unless you feel, but actually DO FEEL that something is bad, you shouldnt pay much attention to that, especially if its such a small cycle as 12 weeks on 500mgs of test.
95% of people should be able to take 500mgs of test, with no AI, no blood pressure drugs, no blood donations, no nothing. If somethings gets a bit higher you know that the drug works. You dont buy 3 more drugs to suppress every sign of the steroid itself.
Drinking water and doing cardio should be enough to “survive” a light beginner cycle for 12 weeks.
Taking AIs, dumping blood, taking cholesterol meds and blood pressure meds is something advanced people do because thay use in a week what you will take in 12 weeks combined.
I was some 3-5 years on and off much larger cycles than yours, and i never even knew that all these things existed.
Also, keep in mind, if you need BP meds and blood donations on 500mgs of test, it basically means you have no point of doing it as you wont be able to go anywhere from there, and what happens when you need a larger dose? Its very rare that people actually NEED all this stuff on a cycle. Most people just panic and kill themselves over nothing.
500mgs of test shouldnt have ANY side effects that are in any way noticable.
I’m not coming here to give differing advice, because I don’t have any, but I do want to offer at least an alternative perspective:
I think everything you posted above is really irresponsible (even if it turned out to be true for this individual).
To base your opinion on “don’t treat it because it’s ‘normal,’” by which you mean “common” is absolutely silly. It’s “common” (“normal” in the above vernacular) to get heart disease and diabetes when embracing the America lifestyle; shall we just lean into it? It appears to be “normal” to suffer morbidities/ mortality when on steroids; perhaps risk factor treatment may be a wise course of action.
I think it would be one thing to say “an increase in RBC of up to 5% when taking exogenous testosterone is very common and does not appear to be associated with a concomitant rise in morbidity in the available literature” would be absolutely fine. To go multiple next steps to “take this much of these drugs and don’t worry about any arbitrary increase in these common health indicators” is another thing entirely.
This is not an attack, and I certainly concede you have more experience with these drugs than I do, but I did feel I needed to leave a counterpoint to your response.
I understand what you mean and in general sense i agree.
What i want people to do is to start slow but actually see what needs to be done.
I go by my own example - i had e2 up to 300 when range is up to 38. So i started killing it to get it within range. Ever since my libido and motivation is below average. I have never felt so good, as i felt with e2 10 times the normal range. The reason i fucked with it was cause i read about AI on a forum…
People nowdays treat side effects before they even have them.
I’ve seen a few ppl advocate for using ARB/ACE to lower HCT but haven’t seen anything concrete on it. I use an ACE and it hasn’t lowered RBC that I can tell, but I also do other things to manage it as well. Maybe at higher doses?
That makes a ton of sense and that personal anecdote feels a lot better to me. I totally get where you’re coming from on “make sure it’s an issue for you before internet diagnosis;” I was just worried your post could be the same internet diagnosis the other way.
Thanks for the follow-up!
are you on TRT? the HTC subject has been discussed extensively and there is somewhat a division what a too high level is.
my understanding is:
a) donating is generally good if your HCT runs too high, as long as your ferritin is in range
b) telmisartan might lower it, and if you BP is high, is one of the better drugs out there for many
c) my levels run pretty high and I have zero s/x. my HCT creeps up to 19 and then stops.
donating gets it down to 17 or so but it creeps up pretty quick. been trying to adjust protocols/esters to lower it a bit, despite no s/x i don’t super comfortable running it at 19
i also take telmisartan for high BP, unrelated.
Thanks for the input! I have telmisartan just in case I get high bp, I do monitor bp everyday.
Yes, but I’m thinking of doing a blast, I’ve been doing 300mg of test each week before just got curious about the whole RBC, hematocrit and all that and how I should approach it
What dose are you running?
get a CBC
a) before the blast
b) after the blast
compare the 2. this is where you need to start
10mg
BP and heart rate are two good measurements (also the most accessible) we can use to gauge how hard our hearts are working (which I believe the heart having to work harder than it should is the main driver of cardiovascular issues for most people). RBC / Hematocrit values don’t tell us nearly as much about how hard our hearts are working by themselves.
I wouldn’t pay attention to RBC / Hematocrit unless BP / heart rate is elevated (just what I do here, not medical advice). Even then, I’d just add 20 mg/day Telmisartan before dumping blood.
I did bloodwork not too long ago which covered a lot of stuff. This is the results for the blood category:
B-Hemoglobin
(g/L): 158
Ref:134-170
B-Erytrocyter
(10E12/L): 5.2
Ref:4.2-5.7
B-EVF: 0.51
Ref:0.39-0.50
Erc(B)-MCV
(fL): 98
Ref:82-98
Erc(B)-MCH
(pg): 30
Ref:27-33
B-Leukocyter
(10E9/L): 5.4
Ref:3.5-8.8
B-Trombocyter
(10E9/L):204
Ref:145-348
Okay I believe the normal dose is between 20-40mg for high bp, but if it works for you then keep doing it, but it might help with the other stuff at higher doses like you said
Thanks for the input, will try to keep bp and heartrate in check