Put on TRT 7 Yrs Ago Prematurely, New Issues Have Arisen

Pharma TRT
1

Hey Gents,

apprecaite the the time. Long story short, I was put on TRT back in 2015 for having Test levels in the 450 ng/dl. I went to a doctor through the life extension network (more foreward thinking progressive doctors). At 28 years old, he was saying i should be in the 900-1100 range and sold me on trt. Have had zero issues with it, honestly didnt feel better or worse.Was always very fit, nothing changed there either. Libido did increase

SubQ protocol is 140mg test weekly (split in 2 doses monday and thursday) with .25mg of anastrozle on shot days. 500 HCG weekly (split in 2 doses tuesday and sat). For new blood pressure issues Telmisartan 80mg daily/

Im 6ft tall, weight ranges from 190-220lb depending on bulking or cutting (bf from 8% to 15%). non-smoker, light drinker with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet. 5 meals daily with lean protein source, healthy fat source and fruit and veggie side every meal

Historically, my test ranges from 900-1350 with E2 45-75. Doc doesnt like high dose AI for heart and says that higher levels of E2 with higher levels of test are ok. as long as the ratio is 18 to 1 or something like that. not sure how i feel on this aspect

now, at 35, out of no where, my blood pressure went from 130/70 (may 2021) to 160/90 spiking at times of 190/110 (July 21 - Current). Im a very health anxious person by nature. Stress has dramatically increased as we cant control the blood pressure, even with medication. I have zero stress or issues with my enviorment. The anxiety has gotten to the botten where im not functioning correctly.

Doc says its nothing to worry about, that im stressed over the readings, that BP is a gradual thing and a spike like that is from stress. Also according to him, that with no other issues health wise, BP isnt as lethal.

My question is, could TRT be the culprit to the sudden onslaught of the high BP? i know white coat syndrom is happening but im more interested in a health life these days than being 200lbs at 10% bf. Has anyone experieced these issues?

Also, my DHT is WAYYY high. i have no issues with balding or excess body hair (ive always been extremly hairy before TRT).

my most recent labs are below, thanks for the helps my friends.

ALBUMIN 5.1 Reference Range: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
SEX HORMONE BINDING GLOBULIN 32 Reference Range: 10-50 nmol/L
TESTOSTERONE, TOTAL, MS 1331 H Reference Range: 250-1100 ng/dL
TESTOSTERONE, FREE 225.2 H Reference Range: 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
TESTOSTERONE,BIOAVAILABLE 521.8 Reference Range: 110.0-575.0 ng/dL
DIHYDROTESTOSTERONE 142 H Reference Range: 12-65 ng/dL
ESTRADIOL 74 H Reference Range: < OR = 39 pg/mL

RED BLOOD CELL COUNT 6.09 H Reference Range: 4.20-5.80 Million/uL
HEMOGLOBIN 18.8 H Reference Range: 13.2-17.1 g/dL
HEMATOCRIT 56.1 H Reference Range: 38.5-50.0

LIPID PANEL, STANDARD
Analyte Value
CHOLESTEROL, TOTAL 138 Reference Range: <200 mg/dL
HDL CHOLESTEROL 35 L Reference Range: > OR = 40 mg/dL
TRIGLYCERIDES 84 Reference Range: <150 mg/dL
LDL-CHOLESTEROL 86 mg/dL Reference range: <100
CHOL/HDLC RATIO 3.9 Reference Range: <5.0 (calc)
NON HDL CHOLESTEROL 103 Reference Range: <130 mg/dL (calc)

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL
Analyte Value
GLUCOSE 88 Reference Range: 65-99 mg/dL
UREA NITROGEN (BUN) 22 Reference Range: 7-25 mg/dL
CREATININE 1.09 Reference Range: 0.60-1.35 mg/dL
eGFR NON-AFR. AMERICAN 88 Reference Range: > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
eGFR AFRICAN AMERICAN 102 Reference Range: > OR = 60 mL/min/1.73m2
SODIUM 137 Reference Range: 135-146 mmol/L
POTASSIUM 4.3 Reference Range: 3.5-5.3 mmol/L
CHLORIDE 102 Reference Range: 98-110 mmol/L
CARBON DIOXIDE 27 Reference Range: 20-32 mmol/L
CALCIUM 10.0 Reference Range: 8.6-10.3 mg/dL
PROTEIN, TOTAL 7.5 Reference Range: 6.1-8.1 g/dL
ALBUMIN 4.8 Reference Range: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
GLOBULIN 2.7 Reference Range: 1.9-3.7 g/dL (calc)
ALBUMIN/GLOBULIN RATIO 1.8 Reference Range: 1.0-2.5 (calc)
BILIRUBIN, TOTA L 1.1 Reference Range: 0.2-1.2 mg/dL
ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 81 Reference Range: 36-130 U/L
AST 23 Reference Range: 10-40 U/L
ALT 20 Reference Range: 9-46 U/L

HEMOGLOBIN A1c 5.0 Reference Range: <5.7 % of total Hgb
eAG (mg/dL) 97 (calc)
eAG (mmol/L) 5.4 (calc)

C-REACTIVE PROTEIN 0.4 Reference Range: <8.0 mg/L
FERRITIN 93 Reference Range: 38-380 ng/mL
TSH 1.9 Reference Range: 0.40-4.50 mIU/L
PSA, TOTAL 0.78 Reference Range: < OR = 4.00 ng/mL

WHITE BLOOD CELL COUNT 5.9 Reference Range: 3.8-10.8 Thousand/uL
MCV 92.1 Reference Range: 80.0-100.0 fL
MCH 30.9 Reference Range: 27.0-33.0 pg
MCHC 33.5 Reference Range: 32.0-36.0 g/dL
RDW 13.6 Reference Range: 11.0-15.0 %
PLATELET COUNT 182 Reference Range: 140-400 Thousand/uL
MPV 11.4 Reference Range: 7.5-12.5 fL
ABSOLUTE NEUTROPHILS 3304 Reference Range: 1500-7800 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE LYMPHOCYTES 1823 Reference Range: 850-3900 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE MONOCYTES 655 Reference Range: 200-950 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE EOSINOPHILS 89 Reference Range: 15-500 cells/uL
ABSOLUTE BASOPHILS 30 Reference Range: 0-200 cells/uL
NEUTROPHILS 56 %
LYMPHOCYTES 30.9 %
MONOCYTES 11.1 %
EOSINOPHILS 1.5 %
BASOPHILS 0.5 %

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2

You got put on TRT at 28 years old?? Holy duck, I need your doctor

Sorry, I have nothing to add to the thread - you just have me considering getting tested now too :sweat_smile:

3

Its not worth it bro. either do the damn thing or not at all. this half way in half way out B.S. is the worst of both worlds. I got 0 benefit phsyically from it, as im not superphysiological but I still shut myself down all the same.

the TRT made me unhealthier in my opinion for zero gain

4

TRT amplifies or enhances your personality, if you’re an asshole with lower testosterone levels TRT will enhance your personality traits.

Also your baseline Total T from years ago doesn’t tell us much without a baseline SHBG and Free T results.

It sounds like you were expecting TRT to fix all your problems and it didn’t workout and now they have finally caught up with you.

At the very least it wouldn’t hurt to reduce your doasge a bit.

5

Unless I’m misinterpreting this… your SHBG levels are perfectly within range, Total T is elevated (nonfactor) and your Free T is just above normal range. As @systemlord mentioned, without knowing your baseline numbers pre TRT - it is hard to extrapolate if this treatment has benefitted you or not. This being said, having an above-average Free T level is certainly a big benefit, unless that number is lower than what your “normal” amount of Free T was.

It sounds like your T levels, not including DHT, are better than the typically expected range.

Not to be “that guy” but are you sure you aren’t getting more stressed because you’re getting more stressed? It sounds reminiscent of a positive anxiety feedback loop… Not to mention most things in life have gotten dramatically more stressful in the last ~2 years.

6

I just found this in a @TC_Luoma article:
“That’s why it’s important to monitor both hemoglobin and hematocrit. If hemoglobin exceeds 18.0, or hematocrit exceeds approximately 50.0, you either need to adjust your dosage of testosterone, donate some blood to the Red Cross, or submit yourself for what’s called therapeutic phlebotomy (a simple blood draw in a doctor’s office).”
Link: https://www.t-nation.com/alpha-life/the-complete-guide-to-t-replacement/

Hope this helps!

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7

Your heart is a pump, you’re vessels are check valves and your arteries are pipes. The laws of physics control the force (therefore pressure) required to move your blood through your body at the necessary rate. The necessary rate is governed by your body’s oxygen requirement.

Thick fluid requires more pressure to move through a system this is easily proven.

I had similar BP issues at a similar age that I resolved by lowering my dose and giving blood.

Lowering dose is the solution while giving blood is the quick fix. If your dose is still too high your body will produce more red blood cells quickly again to replenish the donation.

I might add, you could be surprised how much test and e2 your balls are still producing at that level of HCG given your previous natural production capability. This stimulation can be the cause of your high e2.

I never managed to get a handle on this. From experience I’d suggest stopping HCG for now and lower test to 50mg twice per week (assuming cypionate). Keep the AI. You can cautiously reintroduce the HCG once you’ve reigned in the e2 and thick blood issues which seem like obvious priorities.

I’m sure there’s a study kicking about that subQ injections increase e2 slightly too. At your body fat % you can still use 1/2 inch insulin pins into your ventroglute just below the hip.

2 Likes
8

Excellent advice! Only disagree with one thing: One study, probably the only one on the topic, shows that Sub Q injections actually result in less aromatization, not more.

9

Blockquote

ill have to go back and review the bioavailble T.

Any thoughts on the DHT being almost double?

Also, there absolutely is the whole being more anxious about being anxious effect in play but I think nipping the issues in the butt would really help stop that feedback loop

10

I stand corrected, I got it the wrong way around thanks for pointing this out!

11

Blockquote

thanks for the advice, I will speak with the doc. Ive donated blood pretty regularly but with the elevated BP, they wont let me donate anymore.

im in that wierd headspace in thinking I can fix the issues with TRT or if I have the will to come off the TRT and deal with that shitty come off… if I can even come off after supressing the HPTA for so long

12

I think you’ve got a good chance of improving things by lowering dose. Coming off TRT is an option for you but might not be necessary. You also shouldn’t fear having to come off TRT if it comes to it. My experience really wasn’t that bad. Read my restart log if your interested. There’s a video link of a YouTuber who blasted and cruised for 8 years then successfully restarted his HPTA. He has compiled his dosages and lab work over 3 months of PCT so it’s a good resource.

Coming Off TRT After 3 Years- HPTA Restart Log

13

Out of curiosity, why did you start testosterone? I’m assuming you had your testostosterone tested for a reason.

14

it was just a doctor visit for a general check up. theres a group called the “life extension” network that aims to optimize health with medicine vs just treat underlying conditions. i thought it was the progressive thing to do at the time. I wasnt experincing symptoms at all but I wanted to be “optimized”

in reality, it was a mistake.

15

Everyone is unique, optimal levels doesn’t always mean levels at the top. There was a member a few years back who was in the same boat, just checking levels out of curiosity and found his Total T at 159, was muscular, had a high libido and didn’t have any symptoms.

16

Yeah, it was. One of my favorite sayings, “if you think you are healthy, you have not had enough tests.” This underscores the importance of not overly relying on the numbers.

Yes.

17

IMO, the hematocrit is the main culprit for the high BP. You can donate blood, you can lower your dose, you can try aspirin to lower it (I am actually trying this out), you could do what @hankthetank89 does and drain some blood DIY, or a combo of these things.

Pretty sure too much red blood cells is your issue though.

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18

we doing bloodletting up in here…? :eyes:

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Check out Hank’s log. I can’t handle blood very well, and I’ll be scrolling it (it is an interesting log as he tries stuff out fairly scientifically), and the next post will just be a big ol bowl of blood that he drained and weighed. I think the last one he made the observation that pre workout makes his blood flow better in the process of draining, but also made it foamy. I glance at it, and scroll so it is off the screen.

From one of his recent posts about the foamy blood.

image

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HEMATOCRIT 56.1 H Reference Range: 38.5-50.0 This was my exact number. I was sent to my local blood bank with a script. I go every 14 days, my finger is pricked and I’ve been around 43 lately and they won’t take my blood until I’m closer to 50. I cannot tell you how great it was to get rid of a little more than a pint. Such calm came over my body. I can’t feel my heart beat anymore. It was a very uncomfortable place to be, now I feel like my old self.
You can try to donate a pint to your local blood bank and see the difference.