Ratted Out At Work

Off Topic
122

[quote]hspder wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
That sucks, but I think this guy said he’s 26, he’s only been out of school for a few years, and I doubt he only noticed recently that he isn’t passionate about it.

There’s nothing wrong with noticing you’re not passionate about something – or someone – you thought you were. Happens millions of times a day. It will happen to you several times over the course of your life. And he’s doing something about it.
[/quote]

My point was he got into a field he probably knew he didn’t like, and then he is surprised that he doesn’t like his work. That’s just silly. The fact that he is changing his occupation didn’t come out right away, and that is certainly a good move (unless he doesn’t like the new career either).

As for the rest, much of it just doesn’t apply to me, and I really can’t comment on it, because I live in Canada.

123

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Your point? I paid for my education also. Hell, I am STILL paying. However, I also didn’t have three kids to pay for. I am also not so blind as to not understand how some issues in life could hinder someone’s abilities to succeed. Getting into social factors would be entire discussion on its own considering someone raised to care more about education will be at a huge advantage compared to someone whose family didn’t care much at all about it and never even expected them to make it out of high school. Much of the way kids handle their lives is based on the cycle created by their parents. It is safe to say that the child of a mother who had her first kid at 15 will probably be more likely to get pregnant in high school herself. That creates an entirely different path in someone’s life than the kid who simply had to pay for school.
[/quote]

I’m not seeing where we disagree. Yes, sometimes people have a very hard lot, and there should definately be systems in place to help. However, I think that the problem isn’t a lack of opportunities, it is a lack of knowledge regarding those opportunities. This is where I feel the emphasis should be.

You mentioned that many businesses fail, do you realize that many successful business people have failed at some point?

And you say people like me blame the victim? I understand how a person’s life history could prevent them from seeing opportunities. I know how having a hard time growing up can crush a person’s ambition. I see it with some members of my own family. But what is more helpful, saying “poor you, it isn’t your fault”, or trying to show them what opportunities they DO have, and helping them take advantage of them?

[quote]
I truly believe the most ignorant people around are those who think they truly “made it” all by themselves.[/quote]

I think the most ignorant are the ones that don’t see themselves as having a major role in what happens to them. Interestingly, in business, success is highly correlated with locus of control. People that think they are in control of what happens to them tend to be far more successful than those who think that what happens to them is beyond their control. Is it wrong of me to encourage people to develop an internal locus of control?

124

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Emile knew that it was only by luck that he was born into wealth and could maintain it, and that the inherent unpredictability of the world meant that he might one day also have his goods and fortunes taken from him. Rousseau avoided the question of whether or not most people, on average, were really justly rewarded for their efforts, because that is largely beside the point. The important thing is that men should, when comparing themselves to other men, err on the side of pity and not of haughtiness, and on the side of good works and charity freely given.[/quote]

It is certainly not my idea that poor people should be looked down on. I think that helping people find a way to improve their situation and helping them get there is by far the best “charity” they can be given. And I think pity is a poor substitute for kindness, to tell the truth.

125

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
…
Not everyone can be a professional football player. Not everyone can be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. EVERYONE can do something they love…

No they can’t. The world needs people to do crappy jobs too.

No matter how motivated and hard working everyone is someone still needs to clean the toilets.

Not to mention things that happen in life that could hinder someone’s advancement. Having a kid at a young age and having no financial support will be a much larger blow to someone’s life than the kid whose parents paid for his entire education.[/quote]

Or you can go from being an engineer to driving a school bus as a gentleman I know has.

Companies down size. People don’t want to hire 60 year olds with sick wives that need health insurance.

126

[quote]hspder wrote:
…

And about promotions: I’ve found that rarely it is the most competent people that get promoted – for several reasons. But that’s a whole thread in itself, and I have the sneaky feeling you’ll learn that one way or another in a few years. Hopefully (for you) not the hard way.

…

[/quote]

You have got that right. If you are very good at your job you are likely to get passed over for promotion. Companies often don’t want to move you out of position if you are very productive.

If you are mediocre at your job but you are a good bullshitter you have a great chance of being promoted. They don’t really need you in your current position so why not give you a chance at something else? You may be a better manager than a productive worker.

American business is incredibly fucked up and backwards thinking.

127

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
It is certainly not my idea that poor people should be looked down on. I think that helping people find a way to improve their situation and helping them get there is by far the best “charity” they can be given. And I think pity is a poor substitute for kindness, to tell the truth.[/quote]

I apologize: for Rousseau, pity can imply a sweetness and tenderness, and a motivation to action, that is oftentimes lost when we use the term in english. One of the tensions is that amour-propre can inspire feelings of superiority, which make pity a mere flattering of vanity. It is his intention to educate men that they, too, are vulnerable to the caprices of fortune, and must pity their fellow men in the same way they would want to be pitied: with kindness.

128

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Emile knew that it was only by luck that he was born into wealth and could maintain it, and that the inherent unpredictability of the world meant that he might one day also have his goods and fortunes taken from him. [/quote]

Suppose I am Trump Jr. and I am there because Mr. and Ms. Trump chose to. I am not lucky. I am the result of the will of two adults. Quite the opposite of luck. Can we say inevitable luck. Any rich guy who sows his seed, automatically creates lucky children… as long as the fortune is there, of course. And even then, the potential to amass it may still be there.

Back to our thread.

129

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In the military, being late means AWOL.[/quote]

Also in the military, being late will get your ass all kinds of stupid crap to do, like doing sniper drills or reporting for morning formation an hour early or writing a 20,000 word essay on why punctuality is important.

Better get your head out of your ass before you end up waiting in line to get food stamps and crappy peanut butter.

Imagine how THAT will put a damper on your Biotest orders

130

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:

I’m not seeing where we disagree. Yes, sometimes people have a very hard lot, and there should definately be systems in place to help. However, I think that the problem isn’t a lack of opportunities, it is a lack of knowledge regarding those opportunities. This is where I feel the emphasis should be.
[/quote]

Your view of life seems rather simplistic. There is no doubt a tendency to be unable to not only see some opportunities when available, but to also know how to act if they are noticed. It doesn’t end there, however. You have obviously never heard of an admissions board where there may be 100 student slots to fill in a graduate or professional school. You could be a great student and taken advantage of every opportunity and still not get a place. When any aspect of your life’s advancements lays in the hands of others, the blame for any lack of success can not logically land directly in the lap of the individual. Life has always had a component that some refer to as destiny or simply chance. While you may work to be in control of many factors, you would have to be juvenile to think you are in control of it all.

131

[quote]MrChill wrote:
Suppose I am Trump Jr. and I am there because Mr. and Ms. Trump chose to. I am not lucky. I am the result of the will of two adults. Quite the opposite of luck. Can we say inevitable luck. Any rich guy who sows his seed, automatically creates lucky children… as long as the fortune is there, of course. And even then, the potential to amass it may still be there.
[/quote]

You’re ignoring the point, which is not that having sex leads to having children. Mr. Trump and Ms. Trump could lose their fortunes due to forces beyond their control; terrorism, fraud, etc. Yes, I’m sure Trump diversifies to minimize his risk, but that is, again, beside the point. Let me put it a different way: it was not due to any virtue on Trump Jr.'s part that he was born into wealth. The idea of ‘luck’ comes from the intuition that human beings, that is, our particular consciousnesses that render us individual, could have been born to other parents, or at least were not due to any implied virtue on our parts.
And again, there are all sorts of external forces that can rob a family of its wealth; which I would consider “unlucky.”

I consider myself “lucky” to have been born in the United States of America. But good luck with reducing everything to determinism. It’s sort of like the concept of free will, isn’t it? We don’t truly have it in the deepest sense (an event is either random, causal, or a mix of the two, but there is no fourth choice), yet it is a necessary illusion that we maintain in order to live our daily lives.

132

Also, lest anyone think that Rousseau was just a bleeding-heart, hippy type, remember it was Voltaire who wrote Candide in response (largely) to the Lisbon earthquakes that killed so many people. Voltaire used this event to push his philosophy of a hostile, godless world filled with horrible cruelties and injustices. Rousseau pointed out that it was not God’s fault that the people in Lisbon died; after all, it was their own artifice that constructed cities in which buildings were created so high and in such close proximity to each other.

The lesson we should take from this is that there are always elements of chance in these matters, and we should strive to be as self-sufficient as possible. Yet, we must not assume that we are masters of our destinies comprehensively; we are not gods. Nor are other people. We can try to minimize risks, especially if we’ve been enlightened by the right teachers, but we should never take for granted that all people have been as fortunate as we.

133

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:

I’m not seeing where we disagree. Yes, sometimes people have a very hard lot, and there should definately be systems in place to help. However, I think that the problem isn’t a lack of opportunities, it is a lack of knowledge regarding those opportunities. This is where I feel the emphasis should be.

Your view of life seems rather simplistic. There is no doubt a tendency to be unable to not only see some opportunities when available, but to also know how to act if they are noticed. It doesn’t end there, however. You have obviously never heard of an admissions board where there may be 100 student slots to fill in a graduate or professional school. You could be a great student and taken advantage of every opportunity and still not get a place. When any aspect of your life’s advancements lays in the hands of others, the blame for any lack of success can not logically land directly in the lap of the individual. Life has always had a component that some refer to as destiny or simply chance. While you may work to be in control of many factors, you would have to be juvenile to think you are in control of it all.[/quote]

Well, for example, my PhD program offers between 0 and 3 slots each year, and I’m told they get over 200 applications. I knew it was a long shot (especially since I was applying without a masters degree), and let’s face it, I got lucky. What would I have done if I never got in? I was also going to apply to another PhD program, as well as two MScs. I had already decided I would also apply for a couple of MBA programs that had later deadlines, and if I never got into those either (which would be really bad luck), I would have turned my business minor into a BBA. In fact, I already knew what courses I would have to do, their prerequesites, and the best order to do them in. I got into my PhD program, so the rest didn’t really matter, but I was prepared to go on with my life no matter which path I had to take.

No, failure isn’t always your fault, but what you do after it is your responsibility. I’m not suggesting you should try to control everything (that is not only impossible, but unhealthy), but you should definately try to make the best of what you have to deal with.

134

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
you should definately try to make the best of what you have to deal with.[/quote]

So, tell me, what does this one concept here have to do with a reality that ensures no man of success no matter how many different plans of action he may be prepared for? You could make all of these plans…and end up in a car accident tomorrow that forces you to be unable to do any job you listed. Would failure be your fault then? What if you didn’t “enjoy” whatever job you needed to do to survive?

135

Neph,

Nice to see something meaningful in the discussion.

I find it frustrating to see people with a modicum of success start to feel good about themselves, and consequently negatively about all those around them, as if everyone doesn’t make decisions based on the circumstances they find themselves in.

Personally, I started down that same road, with a very fast and successful career path for quite a while. It is when you face the world yourself and find there is no safety net and that control is an illusion, then you seem to learn that other people falling off the tightrope doesn’t mean they are incompetent either.

Of course, there are indeed all types of people, but those types are much more varied than “myself” and everyone too lazy to succeed.

It would be nice if everyone had the wisdom and the compassion to understand some aspects of the human condition, wouldn’t it?

136

What a wonderful attitude to carry around with you.

It’s thinking like this that stops most people from persuing their dreams. Instead of dedicating their minds to thinking of ways to succeed, and the things they have going for them . . . they commit all their brainpower to what they have going against them, and all the ways in which they can fail.

Something like a car crash is entirely out of your control (assuming it’s not your fault). Why in the hell would you bother thinking about it, other than the time it takes to get insurance? Why in the hell would anyone bother spending their time dwelling on how large all the obstacles are in life when they could be focusing on how to overcome them?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, tell me, what does this one concept here have to do with a reality that ensures no man of success no matter how many different plans of action he may be prepared for? You could make all of these plans…and end up in a car accident tomorrow that forces you to be unable to do any job you listed. [/quote]

137

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
What a wonderful attitude to carry around with you.

It’s thinking like this that stops most people from persuing their dreams. Instead of dedicating their minds to thinking of ways to succeed, and the things they have going for them . . . they commit all their brainpower to what they have going against them, and all the ways in which they can fail.

Something like a car crash is entirely out of your control (assuming it’s not your fault). Why in the hell would you bother thinking about it, other than the time it takes to get insurance? Why in the hell would anyone bother spending their time dwelling on how large all the obstacles are in life when they could be focusing on how to overcome them?

[/quote]

You are the one making the claim as if anyone who does not succeed or get into a job they like is at fault and simply didn’t plan or try hard enough. Life is more complicated than that. I won’t even get into the religious aspect of it, but I will say this is what many people attribute feelings of being a small part of a much larger process around you. There is the saying, “Act is if everything depended on you and pray as if everything depended on God”. It means that things are not all in our control and those who do believe in a higher power understand that life is more than just living for yourself. You aren’t everything. You asked why I would even think about a tragedy. The answer is, because it could happen. How much more humbled would wealthy people be if they truly understood they could eventually lose it all in short order? Would they then understand that they aren’t that much different than the people they were laughing at for not making it to a professional degree or owning their own million dollar business? Understanding that hasn’t made me stop pursuing my own goals. If anything, it makes me work harder becuse I see the opporunities I have been given as “blessings” and not things I was entitled to.

138

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…
[/quote]

I am honestly shocked that you of all people would be arguing on this point, especially considering how you respond to people regarding eating and working out. For the record, I think your attitude regarding training is spot-on: too many people make excuses for why they can’t add weight instead of just doing it. You think a person who has been working out for a few years should have made substantial progress, and you aren’t afraid to tell them they have wasted their time.

There are reasons people can’t progress in their training, and like with careers, most are psychological. Some guys are terrified of getting fat, to the point that if they add any fat at all, they slam the brakes on their bulk and jump into a cut too early, negating any gains. Some people think they will always be skinny, no matter how hard they try, and give up on adding muscle. Of course, to you the answer is an obvious “eat more”, and you are right.

You don’t know what life experiences have led these people to where they are, and you don’t know what psychological barriers they have. But you do seem to realize that rather than having a pity-party, they should be striving to overcome their issues. As my aikido instructor says, “don’t think, just do”.

This is especially easy for you, because you used to be skinny. You know what it’s like to be thin, decide you want to pack on a lot of muscle, and work hard to that end. You don’t consider that you could slip in the bath tub, break your neck and never be able to train again, because that line of thinking is completely fruitless. If it happens, it happens, but there is no point thinking about it.

You should know, I’m a skinny guy, and I find the fact that you were skinny and are now huge extremely inspiring. Likewise, I hope to be wildly successful, and when poor children hear my story, they will be inspired in the same way.

I’ll end by saying I firmly believe that the biggest obstacle to success is what I call “poor people mentality”. I think that many people from poor communities just don’t understand their options, don’t know how to identify opportunities, and don’t know how to pursue the opportunities they do see. I think taking the time to help a person overcome this is the greatest charity you could possibly give. Making opportunities available (eg, buying a person a new suit, helping them raise capital for a business) is a close second.

139

[quote]InCorporeSano wrote:
Hey SonnyS:

Are you late to class or late coming on campus before the day begins?

–Late to campus, in Friday’s case 6 minutes late.

If you’re just late to campus, disregard what I said above. There’s nothing worse than nerdy, annoying, brown-noser teachers who think they get to police other teachers.

– Yup.

If you’re consistently late, it might be worth thinking about whether this is the right job for you. It’s no secret that people avoid what they don’t want to do…and that includes chronic lateness. [/quote]

–I think that’s pop pyschology however I assure you I really like my job and I love my kids…

140

[quote]
Teachers work more than what you imagine. They have homework, sometimes 3 hours per a night, preparing for the next class or grading papers from the last one. Especially new teachers, who have yet to form lesson plans and have had less practice performing them.[/quote]

–Very true, and the worst of it falls to Language Arts teachers, who must read and grade written work every single day, in 6th grader’s handwriting,…oy.

– I couldn’t have said it better myself.

– and often deal with students who really don’t want to be there and don’t give a darn about the consequences of acting up

–Gee, ya think?

[quote]
and to OP: You fucked up. I hope you won’t lose the job though. Try setting your alarm an hour earlier than necessary. Then have a second alarm go off at the time you must absolutely get up. That’s a method I’d read in an article written by a sleep researcher, and it’s helped me as well.[/quote]

–thanks for the advice and I assure you its being taken care of

141

[quote]It gets up to a point where it’s actually silly: among my students, I routinely find that the ones with the best level of English are the European ones that have it as a second language, because they had the benefit of learning it properly, rather than through what I believe is one of the worst education systems in the whole Northern Hemisphere – ours.
[/quote]
—You had me agreeing with you until that last point. You mention you have students which indicates you’re a teacher of some sort, albeit a teacher who is ignorant about education in the US. If you truly feel we have one of the worst education systems in the Northern Hemisphere, I am truly sorry. You should appreciate and not hate everything we have in this great country, especially the great educational system.

–That is wrong on so many levels.

–Well, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I happen to love Europe and am contemplating making a move there, but it is not necessarily better. THere are many great things about the US, including our educational system.