Ratted Out At Work

To those of you who may have missed it a few posts back, I was 6 minutes late to work on Friday.

I did not mention that in my first post.

To those of you who continue to make negative assumptions about myself, how well I do my job, and how teachers have it so easy, I repeat: if one were to examine all aspects on how well you do YOUR job, I am sure one would find negative actions which if you admitted them to T-Nation in a public forum (as I did) would result in your getting flamed regards to your professionalism.

I understand that since I posted about it and “exposed” myself, I expose myself to other’s criticism and that’s fine. This is a convenient forum in which to discuss certain problems and life experiences, and I have no reservations about doing so. I don’t like to discuss all my problems with friends and family, nor do I like to keep it inside. This forum, populated by many intelligent, interesting people, is a good way to discuss problems/difficulties as well as nicer things.

Have a good Sunday everyone.

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I am honestly shocked that you of all people would be arguing on this point, especially considering how you respond to people regarding eating and working out. For the record, I think your attitude regarding training is spot-on: too many people make excuses for why they can’t add weight instead of just doing it. You think a person who has been working out for a few years should have made substantial progress, and you aren’t afraid to tell them they have wasted their time.

There are reasons people can’t progress in their training, and like with careers, most are psychological. Some guys are terrified of getting fat, to the point that if they add any fat at all, they slam the brakes on their bulk and jump into a cut too early, negating any gains. Some people think they will always be skinny, no matter how hard they try, and give up on adding muscle. Of course, to you the answer is an obvious “eat more”, and you are right.

You don’t know what life experiences have led these people to where they are, and you don’t know what psychological barriers they have. But you do seem to realize that rather than having a pity-party, they should be striving to overcome their issues. As my aikido instructor says, “don’t think, just do”.

This is especially easy for you, because you used to be skinny. You know what it’s like to be thin, decide you want to pack on a lot of muscle, and work hard to that end. You don’t consider that you could slip in the bath tub, break your neck and never be able to train again, because that line of thinking is completely fruitless. If it happens, it happens, but there is no point thinking about it.

You should know, I’m a skinny guy, and I find the fact that you were skinny and are now huge extremely inspiring. Likewise, I hope to be wildly successful, and when poor children hear my story, they will be inspired in the same way.

I’ll end by saying I firmly believe that the biggest obstacle to success is what I call “poor people mentality”. I think that many people from poor communities just don’t understand their options, don’t know how to identify opportunities, and don’t know how to pursue the opportunities they do see. I think taking the time to help a person overcome this is the greatest charity you could possibly give. Making opportunities available (eg, buying a person a new suit, helping them raise capital for a business) is a close second.

[/quote]

This has been explained to you by others. If you STILL can’t understand it, no one is to blame but yourself. There is a huge difference between someone taking responsibility for THEMSELVES and doing everything they need to do to see results…and doing everything yet still being at the mercy of the will of others. There is nothing stopping someone from doing everything they can in their lives to help make their situation better. No one is saying that someone should sit on their ass and accept what life gives them. What is being explained to you, is that in terms of a job, you can do everything in your power and still not make it to the top spot in a career. You are blaming every person alive who is not successful for not trying hard enough. I even gave you an example where someone is in an accident and your response was “why would you think about that?”. Gee, doofus, you think about that because it counterpoints your argument. I am not for coddling anyone. However, I do know there are people like Christopher Reeves or people with cancer…people who have had life dole out punches that prevent them from simply doing whatever they enjoy doing at work. You want to ignore those when they are exactly who I am speaking of.

You made the mistake of assuming this meant that I am ok with someone not trying in school or simply not going to class. How you made that link is beyond me, but it shows how limited your thinking is. You are the type who, if you ever do become successful, will turn your nose up at all others who aren’t on the same level as if they simply didn’t try hard enough. The game of life is a little more complicated than someone having the will power to lift weights. I lift weights because it is something I can control. I make progress because I work hard enough for it. There is no one between me and the gym. However, in terms of schooling, what if I was not one of the ones chosen for the class I was a part of? What if I would have had two kids by then preventing me from going back to school because they needed to be fed? To you, these are non-issues? If they are, then there isn’t any point in continuing this debate.

Prof,

I don’t see why the hell they can’t see what you are saying.

Perhaps it is too damaging to their psyche to allow that they aren’t in total control of their future?

To Aleksandr and others: I highly recommend reading Nickel and Dimed:

Agree with it or not, it should be somewhat eye-opening.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Prof,

I don’t see why the hell they can’t see what you are saying.

Perhaps it is too damaging to their psyche to allow that they aren’t in total control of their future?[/quote]

I have always held the belief that I am exactly where I need to be right now…wherever that is. It is up to me beyond that to do my best. Every decision made in life has alternate courses that you could have gone. If some guy you never even knew gets sick or dies and opens up a spot for you to go on a trip you never would have gone on otherwise, do you accept the credit if you meet your future wife on that trip? Your destiny, or where you end up in life, is a much more complicated act of nature and circumstance than driving to the gym to lift weights 6 days a week. I am guessing it makes some afraid if they ever begin to understand that there just might be larger forces at work than just “you”.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
This has been explained to you by others. If you STILL can’t understand it, no one is to blame but yourself. There is a huge difference between someone taking responsibility for THEMSELVES and doing everything they need to do to see results…and doing everything yet still being at the mercy of the will of others. There is nothing stopping someone from doing everything they can in their lives to help make their situation better. No one is saying that someone should sit on their ass and accept what life gives them. What is being explained to you, is that in terms of a job, you can do everything in your power and still not make it to the top spot in a career.
[/quote]

My argument was regarding people that HATE THEIR JOB. If the only way a person can be passionate about their work, and love what they do, is if they are at the top position in their career, they need therapy. Seriously.

First off, if you are going to resort to name-calling, I don’t see a point in continuing.

You asked me what I would do if I were in a car accident, and could not go to school. I said I haven’t (and won’t) think about it, because there is no point in preparing a contigency for every possible occurance. Preparing for the likely occurances is usually more than enough. I know, however, that if I were in a crippiling accident, but survived, I would try to do something I’m passionate about with the rest of my life, rather than working I job I hate and wallowing in self-pity.

Didn’t Christopher Reeves spend the rest of his life working on something he felt passionate about?

No, I never assumed this. I have no idea where this is coming from.

Just how well do you know me? Maybe we’ve met and I can’t remember, because I refuse to believe that you are trying to figure me out based on a couple of posts on the internet. And to correct you, I think I’m more the type that if I ever do become successful, I’ll try to teach as many people as possible how I did it, and help them overcome obstacles in their ways (of which I feel psychological ones are the worst).

If you hadn’t gotten into med school, would you have settled for a career you hate, or tried to do something else you love?

You don’t need to go to school to do something you love.

More importantly, having sex is taken too lightly. If people know that sex can lead to babies, and they have sex before they are ready for babies, this is clearly a psychological obstacle to success. And like I have been arguing, this is the type of obstacle that is most prominant, and most damaging.

Let’s make this simple, do you think that, in general, people take too much responsibility for their own actions, or not enough?

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
To Aleksandr and others: I highly recommend reading Nickel and Dimed:

Agree with it or not, it should be somewhat eye-opening.[/quote]

It looks interesting. I might pick it up if I see it around. But remember, I’m lower-class. I’m sitting in a subsidized house right now. I was raised on welfare, my father had to deliver flyers in order to help out with groceries and so I could buy decent clothes so I wouldn’t be ridiculed. While the book deals with the US, I am willing to bet there are a lot of similar problems in Canada. I know there are people working two full-time jobs, and one job is often not enough to even pay for rent.

To make it worse, any money you make when you are on welfare has to be reported, and is deducted from your assistance, so there is no incentive to work. Any savings you have must be declared, and you aren’t eligble for assistance until you have used up all your savings, so it’s impossible to save up to start a business. There is a serious need for reform, no question about it.

These opinions shouldn’t be surprising, since I am a social democrat. In addition, these opinions are not contrary to my argument on this thread. I fully realize that when you are treading water to stay afloat, it’s hard to take a moment to look around and notice the ledge 2 feet away. That doesn’t mean the ledge isn’t there.

EDIT:

I should also mention that I have, at times when I wasn’t in school, supported myself on a job that paid $7.2/hour. It was easy, to be honest. I saved more than enough money to pay my entire tuition the next semester I was in school, I paid all my living expenses (obviously), and I paid for braces. While I can see how it would be nearly impossible trying to support a family off of that income, living as a single person on that much money is a breeze. Anyone that disagrees should try living in Cuba for a few years.

I’ve read some of the book and read reviews that tear it apart.

Meh, what you’ve written is true. But guess what? 95% of the time, a person’s lack of success in life is NOT because of a car crash, or some other outside event completely beyond their control.

It’s because:

  1. They don’t believe it’s possible.
  2. Even if they do think it might be possible, they don’t feel like putting in the effort to figure out how and do it.

Kind of like getting really muscular (don’t get started about how the two situations aren’t compatible, I’m talking about it in a different context now). Most people think it can’t be done without steroids and genetics. And most people, even if they believed it could be done . . . don’t really feel like doing it. And those that do feel like doing it quit because it takes years of effort.

For every person who is held back from career success due to outside circumstances, there are 20 (or 100) that held themselves back. No, I don’t have any studies to back this up, but anyone who doesn’t believe this is naive.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You are the one making the claim as if anyone who does not succeed or get into a job they like is at fault and simply didn’t plan or try hard enough. Life is more complicated than that. I won’t even get into the religious aspect of it, but I will say this is what many people attribute feelings of being a small part of a much larger process around you. There is the saying, “Act is if everything depended on you and pray as if everything depended on God”. It means that things are not all in our control and those who do believe in a higher power understand that life is more than just living for yourself. You aren’t everything. You asked why I would even think about a tragedy. The answer is, because it could happen. How much more humbled would wealthy people be if they truly understood they could eventually lose it all in short order? Would they then understand that they aren’t that much different than the people they were laughing at for not making it to a professional degree or owning their own million dollar business? Understanding that hasn’t made me stop pursuing my own goals. If anything, it makes me work harder becuse I see the opporunities I have been given as “blessings” and not things I was entitled to.
[/quote]

Guys, one of the big problems with the success argument is that much of your attitude and capability is determined before you are finished school.

Think about that.

Generally, we excuse children when they make bad decisions, but in this case, if you screwed up when you were 12 or 14 and didn’t get a good education and didn’t learn good work habits, you are screwed.

This is one of the few areas where we hold young people responsible for decisions before they are expected to be competent to make decisions. In fact, we then judge these people as lacking because they learned too late how important such things are.

Some of us, perhaps many of us, whether through luck of parentage or wisdom of peers, figured out early that we were going to make good decisions as they’d affect our future. Not everyone does.

Why do we feel it appropriate to hold children responsible for these things for most of their lives?

Finally, yes, I know, some people still manage to change things around, but the barriers are much much higher if you have to restart later on.

Instead of revelling in being better than those that haven’t done this, we need to get them to be more productive and contributing to society, because it is in our best interest, financially, to do so.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
—You had me agreeing with you until that last point. You mention you have students which indicates you’re a teacher of some sort, albeit a teacher who is ignorant about education in the US.[/quote]

I’m a (Stanford) Graduate School of Business Professor, so I get the tail-end of the educational system.

I could attack the crime, depravity and violence that is rampant in most public schools I’ve been to, or the prohibitive tuition costs of the private schools. But because the US is not Northern California, that would be taking a biased sample, so I won’t do that.

My impression of the US’ educational system is based off its results. And thier results are appalling. US-educated people constantly get their asses kicked by Europe or Asia-educated people. Invariably the best students are NOT US-educated. You can argue that we’re getting the best of Europe and Asia and comparing to the average US, but if that is so, where the heck are the best of the US? In a ditch somewhere? 'Cause I can’t find them anywhere, not here at Stanford, not at any college I know professors from.

They were probably lost somewhere along the way, between bullying, mind-numbing classes and prohibitive tuition costs.

Plus I taught at a foreign (European) college for a few years so I had the opportunity to do an apples-to-apples comparison – natives in their native environment vs natives in their native environment.

The only other possible explanation is that Americans are somehow genetically dumber than Europeans and Asians, but I believe you’ll agree that would be quite an absurd explanation.

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
If you truly feel we have one of the worst education systems in the Northern Hemisphere, I am truly sorry. You should appreciate and not hate everything we have in this great country, especially the great educational system.[/quote]

“Great educational system”? I believe you’ll be hard-pressed to find people that agree with that. And you’re starting to sound like right-wing nationalists that will accuse anyone that criticizes anything in this country of being a traitor.

If you truly love your country, it is your job to improve it. And in order to improve something you need to acklowledge its flaws. Unfortunately you have made quite clear that you refuse to do so – in any situation.

Please explain this “Smile and Nod” philosophy to me more. I would like to have better idea what it is, maybe with some examples of its application

Thank you

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
Unfortuantely, I share a duty with an anally retentive, busy body who is always early, stays late, and is obsessed with work. [/quote]

Not to stir the pot, but I’ve found that this type of teacher is the best kind. It’s the kind of teacher who loves his/her job and the kids with whom he/she works - not someone who just punches the clock. My mother is like this and is literally the glue that holds her entire high school together; ask any faculty member and they’ll say the exact same thing. She’s up at 4:45AM, at school at 6AM, and usually not home until 6PM. People call the house when there are crises, and I can’t count the number of times she’s bought food with money out of her own pocket so that she could feed students who come to school hungry and can’t afford lunch. The only thing about which I’ve ever heard her complain is the fact that some co-workers don’t seem to care about the kids; they’re all about themselves. I see the same thing with coaches and trainers.

If you really cared, you’d be there on time. And, you’d be finding fault with yourself for your repeated tardiness instead of passing the buck to someone who obviously takes an important job seriously.

Just my two cents; take them for what they’re worth.

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
My argument was regarding people that HATE THEIR JOB. If the only way a person can be passionate about their work, and love what they do, is if they are at the top position in their career, they need therapy. Seriously.[/quote]

So, now people are bound by what you think should make them happy?

[quote]
First off, if you are going to resort to name-calling, I don’t see a point in continuing.

You asked me what I would do if I were in a car accident, and could not go to school. I said I haven’t (and won’t) think about it, because there is no point in preparing a contigency for every possible occurance. Preparing for the likely occurances is usually more than enough. I know, however, that if I were in a crippiling accident, but survived, I would try to do something I’m passionate about with the rest of my life, rather than working I job I hate and wallowing in self-pity.[/quote]

This is getting old fast. Once again I ask, what if you had to do a job you didn’t like just to survive? You would kill yourself? Refuse to do it?

[quote]
Didn’t Christopher Reeves spend the rest of his life working on something he felt passionate about? [/quote]

My guess is, many of his dreams were dashed after his accident. He tried his best to carry on, but you must be living in fantasy land if you think he never had to deal with deep depression.

[quote]
Just how well do you know me? Maybe we’ve met and I can’t remember, because I refuse to believe that you are trying to figure me out based on a couple of posts on the internet. And to correct you, I think I’m more the type that if I ever do become successful, I’ll try to teach as many people as possible how I did it, and help them overcome obstacles in their ways (of which I feel psychological ones are the worst).[/quote]

None of what you are writing now is even dealing with what we were discussing.

[quote]
If you hadn’t gotten into med school, would you have settled for a career you hate, or tried to do something else you love?[/quote]

I would try to make whatever decisions would gve me the best future, not just based on what I love. I love making music. It would have been foolish for me to drop out of school just to do so unless I had a recording contract waiting on me ready to pay me enough to live off of. Life is more than just doing what you love the most. There is often a need for balance between what you like doing and what you need to do.

[quote]
You don’t need to go to school to do something you love.

More importantly, having sex is taken too lightly. If people know that sex can lead to babies, and they have sex before they are ready for babies, this is clearly a psychological obstacle to success. And like I have been arguing, this is the type of obstacle that is most prominant, and most damaging.[/quote]

Your point? It still happens. Do you just turn your nose up at all people who have had children at a young age?

Our own president won’t even take responsibility for any negatives. No one is in denial about human nature and the apparent lack of ability to own up for mistakes made. Does this mean that the world should hold every mistake YOU have ever made over your head forever? Are you perfect? Does everyone who has acheived more than you retain the right to laugh at you for not making it to their level?

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Meh, what you’ve written is true. But guess what? 95% of the time, a person’s lack of success in life is NOT because of a car crash, or some other outside event completely beyond their control.

It’s because:

  1. They don’t believe it’s possible.
  2. Even if they do think it might be possible, they don’t feel like putting in the effort to figure out how and do it.

Kind of like getting really muscular (don’t get started about how the two situations aren’t compatible, I’m talking about it in a different context now). Most people think it can’t be done without steroids and genetics. And most people, even if they believed it could be done . . . don’t really feel like doing it. And those that do feel like doing it quit because it takes years of effort.

For every person who is held back from career success due to outside circumstances, there are 20 (or 100) that held themselves back. No, I don’t have any studies to back this up, but anyone who doesn’t believe this is naive.

[/quote]

So, your decision is to stereotype everyone who is not “successful” as simply not trying hard enough?

[quote]vroom wrote:
Instead of revelling in being better than those that haven’t done this, we need to get them to be more productive and contributing to society, because it is in our best interest, financially, to do so.[/quote]

This is exactly what I’ve been saying. But before you can help someone, you need to identify the problem. For a lot of people, the problem seems to be an inability to identify opportunities, and an inability to formulate strategies to take adantage of the opportunities they do recognize.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
So, now people are bound by what you think should make them happy?
[/quote]

WTF? Where do you get this? My initial post was in response to someone that said everyone hates their job.

You need to start paying attention. I HAVE worked a job I didn’t like to survive. I worked it for exactly as long as I had to, and then I left. If I were put in a situation like that again, I would work long enough to find another, more favorable opportunity, and then I would leave. I sure as hell wouldn’t spend the rest of my life in that job.

Yeah, he probably did. I bet I’d be pretty depressed too, if anything like that happened to me. But you try to make the best of it, I guess.

I feel sorry for you then, to be honest. I’m going to do what I absolutely enjoy most in this world.

No, you try to help them. In Canada, there is a lot of talk about improving accessability to daycare, and I think it’s a great idea. But don’t act like people are waking up and saying “damn, were did this kid come from”. When I was a teenager, everyone around me was having wild sex, and I wasn’t. I made a decision not to have sex until I was ready to deal with a possible pregnancy. Maybe parents should do more to teach their children about the importance of delaying gratification.

It was a very simple question. Do people tend to take too much responsibility for their actions, or not enough?

I’m not trying to hold anyone’s mistakes over their heads, but I do expect them to live with the consequences of their mistakes. That being said, there is no reason why they can’t move past them. I am not laughing at anyone for making mistakes, and I have no idea where this is coming from.

No, I’m not perfect. I make mistakes, but there is absolutely no reason anyone would hold them over my head. I aknowledge my mistakes, and try not to make them in the future. I find this to be a lot more productive than pretending it wasn’t my fault.

Until evidence is shown to me otherwise in whatever specific case I’m looking at, that would absolutely be my first assumption.

After all, if you saw a fat guy, would you think to yourself that he doesn’t eat right and exercise properly . . . or would you think that he does and he must have been a lot more fat earlier?

Because there are fat people out there who are losing weight. So to stereotype fat people and think they don’t exercise and eat properly is wrong . . . but it is true 99% of the time.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

So, your decision is to stereotype everyone who is not “successful” as simply not trying hard enough?[/quote]

[quote]Aleksandr wrote:

WTF? Where do you get this? [/quote]

From:
“If the only way a person can be passionate about their work, and love what they do, is if they are at the top position in their career, they need therapy. Seriously.”

[quote]
You need to start paying attention. I HAVE worked a job I didn’t like to survive. I worked it for exactly as long as I had to, and then I left. If I were put in a situation like that again, I would work long enough to find another, more favorable opportunity, and then I would leave. I sure as hell wouldn’t spend the rest of my life in that job.[/quote]

Don’t you think many people think the same? Do you know why it is recommended that students don’t take years off from college before they get their degree? It is because most don’t ever go back. Life gets in the way. They may have had every intention of going back initially, however, once rent, bills and child care payments begin being made, it is very easy to become trapped in that job you vowed to not stay in for long.

[quote]
I feel sorry for you then, to be honest. I’m going to do what I absolutely enjoy most in this world.[/quote]

Why would you feel sorry for me? I like what I do. That is a mistake you keep making. You clearly can’t comprehend someone finding a balance. You either see whatever someone’s greatest love is or you can’t understand them doing the job. Are you even out of school yet? You will soon find that no matter what you do in life, everythinbg isn’t all roses every single day.

[quote]

It was a very simple question. Do people tend to take too much responsibility for their actions, or not enough?[/quote]

I answered you. Things need to be spelled out in crayon? In fact, quote back exactly what I wrote and then tell me I didn’t answer it.

[quote]
No, I’m not perfect. I make mistakes, but there is absolutely no reason anyone would hold them over my head. I aknowledge my mistakes, and try not to make them in the future. I find this to be a lot more productive than pretending it wasn’t my fault.[/quote]

Do you even have a career yet?

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Until evidence is shown to me otherwise in whatever specific case I’m looking at, that would absolutely be my first assumption.

After all, if you saw a fat guy, would you think to yourself that he doesn’t eat right and exercise properly . . . or would you think that he does and he must have been a lot more fat earlier?

Because there are fat people out there who are losing weight. So to stereotype fat people and think they don’t exercise and eat properly is wrong . . . but it is true 99% of the time.

[/quote]

You know, several people have explained this “exercise vs career” analogy and it seems it is out of your grasp. It almost makes it pointless to explain it again. However, here are my crayons:

You are in complete control of whether you eat that doughnut. You are not in complete control of whether someone hires you over someone else for that job.

That is about as simple as I can put it. If it needs further explanation than that, the short bus will pick you up at eight for school.