[quote]E-man wrote:
Have her elimanated.[/quote]
Or lobotomized. 
[quote]vaughn5000 wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
First of all, to whoever thinks that union people are not professionals, PLEASE come to my factory. There are about 100 or so Big, Burly Steelworkers that will beat the living hell out of you before we run various parts of your body through our nifty machines that you can not run, and wont touch becuase it might cause your pasty white hands to get dirty.
Thatâs the union way! Threats of violence and intimidation.
Notice you didnât point to the quality of your work, and only alluded to the skill and training you have. You went right for the âweâre tough and weâll kick your ass if you donât like unionsâ.
Nice job lending credence to stereotypes of unions and union workers.
[/quote]
Skill and Training=High quality of work. Just a simple little math equation you obviously had trouble with.
[quote]hedgrinder wrote:
InCorporeSano wrote:
hedgrinder wrote:
And donât give me anything about, âNot everyone hates their job.â Maybe a relative few donât HATE their jobs, but given a choice, I think just about EVERYONE would rather not be working, than working. We are there for money, and that is it. Every SECOND over 40 hours Iâm stuck in the office, in a salaried position, is taking money OUT of my paycheck.
Are you for real? Apparently youâve never met or had a real conversation with a priest, rabbi, imam, nun/monk, teacher, chef, journalist, trauma surgeon, EMT, or any of the many other professions that people feel themselves âcalledâ to.
Many of us find our work inspiring and engaging. I, for one, canât wait to see my students in the morning and find that although I enjoy the summers off, I really look forward to starting school again in the fall.
Am I for real? You think the average traffic cop, if they had a choice, would work, versus not work, if they could still get that paycheck? Itâs called work, because 99% of the time it entails doing something unpleasant that requires compensation in order for it to get done. I said relatively FEW jobs, not all.
Why didnât you list mid-level manager? used-car salesman? secretary? waitress? cook(different than âchefâ), or any other number of professions. How about janitors? Do people feel a âcallingâ to that? Not everyone has a âcallingâ to fix people, either religiously or physically, engineer food, or have the talent to be one of the few writers that can make a living off of it. Letâs also not forget that just because you feel a âcallingâ to be a doctor or writer, this has nothing to do with your actual aptitude for that position.
[/quote]
If youâre this miserable, you obviously missed your calling.
[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
First of all, to whoever thinks that union people are not professionals, PLEASE come to my factory. There are about 100 or so Big, Burly Steelworkers that will beat the living hell out of you before we run various parts of your body through our nifty machines that you can not run, and wont touch becuase it might cause your pasty white hands to get dirty.
Professional means you get paid to do something. Amatuer means you donât get paid to do something. If your definition that you gave all of us were true, then only a few select people on this earth would be professionals. Everyone else would just be people with jobs.
I hate hate hate ignorant white collar people.
As far as your situation goes Sonny, tell her you want to take her out as pennance for making her mad. Then get her drunk, and cream her face when you get finished.[/quote]
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You. This post made my day. I just love being proved right. Guess what though, Its Saturday morning and Iâm at work, I dont have to be here, its âmy own timeâ I will probably work till noon and then take my fiance out shopping. I wasnât going to post anymore on this thread seeing as how its basically become a white collar vs blue collar thing. But this post just was too good to not reply to.
For everyone who is trying to rip on me because of my grammarâŠare you serious, after every post i have read on this site, you pick on my grammar?
Your jealous that im 26 and have a secretary already?
I guess that saying is true âIts alright, Its ok, youâll be pumping my gas somedayâ
In closing, donât hate on people that worked their asses off to succeed, Donât get mad that some people have dedicated themselves and become successful, you choose your life i choose mine. Iâm extremely happy with my choices.
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
Bert wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Great news, I have been invited back for next year and my final evals were pretty good.
I talked to a different union rep about what to do. He gave me some solid advice about what to do. I apologized to my coworker, and one of the administrators as well.
Thanks to all the replies to the thread, even to those with negative replies. Some were quite amusing. Perhaps some of you are never tardy, in which case great. I am sure one could, if necessary, find faults in your professional comportment were one inclined to do so.
Regardless, perhaps you have never had the pleasure to work with an anally-retentive, obsessive co-worker (who is unhappy with being obese, 39 yrs old and unmarried) who spends all their time at work and devotes far more time than is actually required to do their job and do it well. A coworker who is so obsessive that they have memorized every single datum, every scrap of information on any topic remotely connected with our workplace.
A coworker who you could not compete with in regards to knowledge of minutiae, regulations, curriculum, procedures, etc even if you were a consummate professional.
To those of you who resent union jobs and teachers, Iâm not sure whether to laugh, cry or yell at you for your ignorance.
May I suggest: instead of complaining about those with union jobs and how high your taxes (which pay for schools) are, you begin to take action against China, the loss of jobs in this country, Bushâs economic policies and the deficit. Or, you could sit in this forum and complain about how a teacher is entitled to more sick days than you.
As I prepare to work into the late hours tonight of âmy own timeâ I checked out this thread to see if any updates have been noted. Our friend did well on his evaluations and kept his job, arent unions wonderful.
As for whether to laugh or cry or yell, I would cry for the simple fact that you can slack, be late, and still be rewarded. Hope you never run into one of those union situations where your much more competent then another co-worker but get passed over for a promotion because they have more seniority then you. For all those who took offence to my point of view, some with really valid points, others with drivel, I thought of your points and agree teaching is a calling, a art, and a science.
For all those that work hard and succeed all the best to you. You deserve it. I just wish you had a chance to work outside a union and could be rewarded for your own merits, where the best and brightest get rewarded. And for all the rest who thought i was being a jerk for being opinionated, that is life, everyone has different views.
Still it amazes me that i can put together a thoughtful argument without resorting to name calling and being aggresive towards others, and I am only 26. I guess all those posts containing one line comments and âJACKASSESâ âGumming up the worksâ comes from 16 year olds, cause a adult would have the capacity to put together a intelligent argument right?
By the way, Bert, if you knew a thing about teaching, you would know that getting tenure has absolutely nothing to do with a union and that the union can actually do very little to protect an untenured teacher. You really need to stop posting until you learn the actual facts.
[/quote]
Did you miss the part where I mentioned my father has been a teacher for 35 years, my sister is a teacher and my fiance is a teacher?
[quote]hedgrinder wrote:
Am I for real? You think the average traffic cop, if they had a choice, would work, versus not work, if they could still get that paycheck? Itâs called work, because 99% of the time it entails doing something unpleasant that requires compensation in order for it to get done. I said relatively FEW jobs, not all.
Why didnât you list mid-level manager? used-car salesman? secretary? waitress? cook(different than âchefâ), or any other number of professions. How about janitors? Do people feel a âcallingâ to that? Not everyone has a âcallingâ to fix people, either religiously or physically, engineer food, or have the talent to be one of the few writers that can make a living off of it. Letâs also not forget that just because you feel a âcallingâ to be a doctor or writer, this has nothing to do with your actual aptitude for that position.
[/quote]
There are many people that hate their jobs. There are also many people with little talent, ambition, or creativity. If you hate your job, get a new one (one you actually like).
I had I job I hated, which I worked from the time I was 16 until I was 20. I made french-fries to pay for my groceries, tuition, text-books, computers, etc.; I hated every second of it. Now, I donât have to do that anymore, and Iâll probably never have to do it again. Wanna know my secret? I used a job I hated to achieve a goal, and then moved on. Now Iâm a PhD student in one of the top business schools in Canada. Iâm going into a profession where starting salary tends to be near the 100k a year mark, and I actually find it interesting!
Mid-level managers? If they are talented, ambitious, and hard working, they wonât be mid-level for very long, will they? Why would a cook not become a chef? Is it a lack of talent and/or ambition? Why doesnât a used car salesman open up his own dealership, hire people to work for him, and make himself a businessman? If you want to advance, then advance.
You mentioned you hate your job, why donât you find one you like? Laziness? A lack of talent? A lack of ambition? There has to be some reason, right?
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
vaughn5000 wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
First of all, to whoever thinks that union people are not professionals, PLEASE come to my factory. There are about 100 or so Big, Burly Steelworkers that will beat the living hell out of you before we run various parts of your body through our nifty machines that you can not run, and wont touch becuase it might cause your pasty white hands to get dirty.
Thatâs the union way! Threats of violence and intimidation.
Notice you didnât point to the quality of your work, and only alluded to the skill and training you have. You went right for the âweâre tough and weâll kick your ass if you donât like unionsâ.
Nice job lending credence to stereotypes of unions and union workers.
Skill and Training=High quality of work. Just a simple little math equation you obviously had trouble with.[/quote]
Thanks for the help. Now help me with this equation:
Union Workers = tough and will kick your ass
Iâm not sure what skilled labor has to do with fighting.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
hedgrinder wrote:
Am I for real? You think the average traffic cop, if they had a choice, would work, versus not work, if they could still get that paycheck? Itâs called work, because 99% of the time it entails doing something unpleasant that requires compensation in order for it to get done. I said relatively FEW jobs, not all.
Why didnât you list mid-level manager? used-car salesman? secretary? waitress? cook(different than âchefâ), or any other number of professions. How about janitors? Do people feel a âcallingâ to that? Not everyone has a âcallingâ to fix people, either religiously or physically, engineer food, or have the talent to be one of the few writers that can make a living off of it. Letâs also not forget that just because you feel a âcallingâ to be a doctor or writer, this has nothing to do with your actual aptitude for that position.
There are many people that hate their jobs. There are also many people with little talent, ambition, or creativity. If you hate your job, get a new one (one you actually like).
I had I job I hated, which I worked from the time I was 16 until I was 20. I made french-fries to pay for my groceries, tuition, text-books, computers, etc.; I hated every second of it. Now, I donât have to do that anymore, and Iâll probably never have to do it again. Wanna know my secret? I used a job I hated to achieve a goal, and then moved on. Now Iâm a PhD student in one of the top business schools in Canada. Iâm going into a profession where starting salary tends to be near the 100k a year mark, and I actually find it interesting!
Mid-level managers? If they are talented, ambitious, and hard working, they wonât be mid-level for very long, will they? Why would a cook not become a chef? Is it a lack of talent and/or ambition? Why doesnât a used car salesman open up his own dealership, hire people to work for him, and make himself a businessman? If you want to advance, then advance.
You mentioned you hate your job, why donât you find one you like? Laziness? A lack of talent? A lack of ambition? There has to be some reason, right?[/quote]
Ivey at Western?
Were you late to class with kids waiting, or did you have 1st period as a planning period?
If a teacher was late to school in either case, habitually, 95% of the teachers in my school would be demanding that they be put on a level 2 probation. Yes, we work extensively outside of the school day, but not getting there on time not only makes you look like a problem waiting to happen, but it pisses off EVERYBODY.
Now, I will mention that one year, when I switched schools and principals, and had first period off, I often got ready at home for 30 minutes and came in halfway through first period. I thought that was the policy because thatâs what a couple of older teachers (who came in late) told me.
Principals want to have strict rules, but they donât want to be forced into confronting anyone, so usually 95% do the right thing, and 5% get by with avoiding responsibility. As a result, the principal will not usually make his or her policy totally clear to the faculty-they want some grey area for the reasons I mentioned. If they get 95% compliance they are overjoyed.
Did the principal make his or her policy about contract hours completely clear?
In Colorado, the teacherâs union STONGLY supports getting rid of teachers who donât do their job. The one thing a teacher hates is to have a lazy-ass coworker.
[quote]Bert wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
Bert wrote:
Sonny S wrote:
Great news, I have been invited back for next year and my final evals were pretty good.
I talked to a different union rep about what to do. He gave me some solid advice about what to do. I apologized to my coworker, and one of the administrators as well.
Thanks to all the replies to the thread, even to those with negative replies. Some were quite amusing. Perhaps some of you are never tardy, in which case great. I am sure one could, if necessary, find faults in your professional comportment were one inclined to do so.
Regardless, perhaps you have never had the pleasure to work with an anally-retentive, obsessive co-worker (who is unhappy with being obese, 39 yrs old and unmarried) who spends all their time at work and devotes far more time than is actually required to do their job and do it well. A coworker who is so obsessive that they have memorized every single datum, every scrap of information on any topic remotely connected with our workplace.
A coworker who you could not compete with in regards to knowledge of minutiae, regulations, curriculum, procedures, etc even if you were a consummate professional.
To those of you who resent union jobs and teachers, Iâm not sure whether to laugh, cry or yell at you for your ignorance.
May I suggest: instead of complaining about those with union jobs and how high your taxes (which pay for schools) are, you begin to take action against China, the loss of jobs in this country, Bushâs economic policies and the deficit. Or, you could sit in this forum and complain about how a teacher is entitled to more sick days than you.
As I prepare to work into the late hours tonight of âmy own timeâ I checked out this thread to see if any updates have been noted. Our friend did well on his evaluations and kept his job, arent unions wonderful.
As for whether to laugh or cry or yell, I would cry for the simple fact that you can slack, be late, and still be rewarded. Hope you never run into one of those union situations where your much more competent then another co-worker but get passed over for a promotion because they have more seniority then you. For all those who took offence to my point of view, some with really valid points, others with drivel, I thought of your points and agree teaching is a calling, a art, and a science.
For all those that work hard and succeed all the best to you. You deserve it. I just wish you had a chance to work outside a union and could be rewarded for your own merits, where the best and brightest get rewarded. And for all the rest who thought i was being a jerk for being opinionated, that is life, everyone has different views.
Still it amazes me that i can put together a thoughtful argument without resorting to name calling and being aggresive towards others, and I am only 26. I guess all those posts containing one line comments and âJACKASSESâ âGumming up the worksâ comes from 16 year olds, cause a adult would have the capacity to put together a intelligent argument right?
By the way, Bert, if you knew a thing about teaching, you would know that getting tenure has absolutely nothing to do with a union and that the union can actually do very little to protect an untenured teacher. You really need to stop posting until you learn the actual facts.
Did you miss the part where I mentioned my father has been a teacher for 35 years, my sister is a teacher and my fiance is a teacher?
[/quote]
Then why would you post something so obviously ignorant about unions and tenure??? If your whole family besides you are teachers, I would think that you would have more respect for the profession. I guess youâre just stuck in your own little world and forgot that teachers were some of the people that helped you get there.
[quote]vaughn5000 wrote:
kroc30 wrote:
vaughn5000 wrote:
BarneyFife wrote:
First of all, to whoever thinks that union people are not professionals, PLEASE come to my factory. There are about 100 or so Big, Burly Steelworkers that will beat the living hell out of you before we run various parts of your body through our nifty machines that you can not run, and wont touch becuase it might cause your pasty white hands to get dirty.
Thatâs the union way! Threats of violence and intimidation.
Notice you didnât point to the quality of your work, and only alluded to the skill and training you have. You went right for the âweâre tough and weâll kick your ass if you donât like unionsâ.
Nice job lending credence to stereotypes of unions and union workers.
Skill and Training=High quality of work. Just a simple little math equation you obviously had trouble with.
Thanks for the help. Now help me with this equation:
Union Workers = tough and will kick your ass
Iâm not sure what skilled labor has to do with fighting.
[/quote]
The anti-union guy couldnât pass math and only knows what he hears from other people, not from real life experiences.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
blah blah blah
[/quote]
You are absolutely right. Laziness is the reason that every guy who wants to be a professional football player isnât. They are just lazy, and lack ambition. And not 6â6. And donât have the frame to support 300lbs worth of muscle to be a linebacker. And didnât have parents sending 'em to football practice every day since they got out of diapers.
Iâm just saying, that sometimes there are other factors, outside of your control, that may keep you from doing what you want.
Tell ya what, Iâm 27, 6â4, 240lbs, have a BS in computer science and am finishing up a Masters in Criminal Justice(To change careers!!!). I also have asthma, and vision thats not 20/20. Do you think I could go be a fighter jet pilot if I wanted to? It would be a huge pay cut, but that sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than being in IT Security. I donât exactly look like Tom Cruise, but I think I could do ok. If only I had more ambition, and was not so lazyâŠ
[quote]Bert wrote:
Still it amazes me that i can put together a thoughtful argument without resorting to name calling and being aggresive towards others, and I am only 26. I guess all those posts containing one line comments and âJACKASSESâ âGumming up the worksâ comes from 16 year olds, cause a adult would have the capacity to put together a intelligent argument right?
[/quote]
This 30 year old used âGumming up the worksâ and Jackasses in reference to who and what I have to deal w/ on a day to day basis because they are the most literal descriptions possible.
I am not pro or anti union, I am pro ME. I will not stoop to a level where I feel I need to âratâ out anyone or kiss anyoneâs ass, both of which happen in NON-UNION and UNION situations.
This âadultâ thinks quite âhighlyâ{ of someone who offers backhanded insults towards anyone who uses certain phrases that arenât on the âapprovedâ list. If I do, itâs probably only because I donât have the required intelligence to come up w/ some verbose response that not all would understand.
Unions or not, life is NOT fair and everyone is trying to get ahead using whatever means they consider acceptable, whether it be through personal contacts, furthering their education, âhidingâ behind their unions, kissing ass, snitching/ratting on others, buying their way in, using their race/gender/religion etcâŠ
If you donât want to have to be at work at a certain time, get a job that doesnât require you to be there at a certain time. Iâm a habitually late person, which is something I ought to work on; however, I chose my job partially based on the fact that I didnât have to keep a particularly regular schedule.
As far as salaried positions go, it depends on how much youâre being paid, how much extra youâre working, etc. At one job, I was routinely putting in 45-50 hours a week for a salary I didnât like. Yet, I couldnât have a 36 hour week without taking leave; so, I left the job.
If, on the other hand, I was making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, it would only be natural that I might have to put in crazy hours every week; Iâd just want them not to lie to me about that at the interview.
I put in extra time because I thought I would be rewarded for it, and I went elsewhere because I wasnât.
No one âowesâ the corporation anything that wasnât contracted for or previously agreed to, especially since they probably deal with employees the same way. If working over 40 hours a week for a low or mid-level job makes you feel better about your work ethic, go for it; some people, however, do like to have lives.
There is a balance between blind obedience to coporate masters and complete apathy toward the needs of the company.
[quote]hedgrinder wrote:
Aleksandr wrote:
blah blah blah
You are absolutely right. Laziness is the reason that every guy who wants to be a professional football player isnât. They are just lazy, and lack ambition. And not 6â6. And donât have the frame to support 300lbs worth of muscle to be a linebacker. And didnât have parents sending 'em to football practice every day since they got out of diapers.
[/quote]
Not everyone can be a professional football player. Not everyone can be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. EVERYONE can do something they love, however. If you are working at a job you hate, find something better. Sometimes, itâs complicated, but there is always a way.
There are ALWAYS factors beyond your control that keep you from doing what you want; they are called âobstaclesâ.
Iâm an immigrant, english is my second language, I am a visible minority, I was raised on welfare, I attended the worst elementary school in my city (only one other person from my class made it to university, and almost all of the guys have been to a correctional facility), my teachers said I wouldnât amount to anything, my sister was a drug addict, and I was socially isolated.
It doesnât matter! Anyone could have done it. BTW, my sister is now a very successful professional, and I am proud as hell.
Fighter jet pilot? No, I believe you need to have perfect vision for that. But you could certainly have an âexcitingâ career in other branches of the military, if you wanted. Then again, thinking about what you CAN do instead of what you canât would probably get in the way of your pity-party, and we canât have you taking responsibility for your own life, can we?
Why did you do a BSc in CS? Do you love it, or did you figure it was a safe route?
If you could have any job in the world, what would it be? What are you doing to make that happen?
[quote]kroc30 wrote:
The anti-union guy couldnât pass math and only knows what he hears from other people, not from real life experiences.
[/quote]
A âblue stateâ teacher is pro-union. Should I be surprised?
BTW, I was once a Teamster.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
âŠ
Not everyone can be a professional football player. Not everyone can be a CEO of a Fortune 500 company. EVERYONE can do something they loveâŠ[/quote]
No they canât. The world needs people to do crappy jobs too.
No matter how motivated and hard working everyone is someone still needs to clean the toilets.
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
15 minutes prior to 15 minutes prior devil.
Mike[/quote]
Oh the memoriesâŠ
DD
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
No they canât. The world needs people to do crappy jobs too.
No matter how motivated and hard working everyone is someone still needs to clean the toilets.[/quote]
Strangely, some people like cleaningâŠ