crime has gone up 80 percent since the gingers have been allowed into society from the wild.
they should have been left in the forest.
joke
[/quote]
Exactly
They come over here and take our jobs, they refuse to integrate and they form ginger gangs.
I am also of the belief that secret elite ginger societies control world events from behind the scenes. Gingers were behind 911. People like Bush, Obama, Pope Benedict, and Gordon Brown are actually gingers in disguise.
I have a ginger friend, so it means I’m allowed to say bigoted things about them. That’s the rules.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
Many black people just love to whine about shit.
I LOVE the fact that no black people have to worry about you saying this to them without acting like it was a joke.[/quote]
Many black people do whine about stupid shit. This thread is a prime example where some idiot claims that a scientific term like “black hole” could be “racist”. The only black hole that this idiot is familiar with is the one occupying the space between his ears.
[quote]phil_leotardo wrote:
Professor X wrote:
phil_leotardo wrote:
Many black people just love to whine about shit.
I LOVE the fact that no black people have to worry about you saying this to them without acting like it was a joke.
Many black people do whine about stupid shit. This thread is a prime example where some idiot claims that a scientific term like “black hole” could be “racist”. The only black hole that this idiot is familiar with is the one occupying the space between his ears.
[/quote]
I would say even more white people moan about stupid shit, so lets not even go there.
I posted this in the Politics forum a while back (where it went over like a lead balloon). Personally, I find it compelling. I’m inclined to agree with rainjack that things are slowly shifting, and I think there are some dated conditions listed in the piece, but I think most of it continues to hold true.
Daily effects of white privilege
By Peggy McIntosh
I decided to try to work on myself at least by identifying some of the daily effects of white privilege in my life. I have chosen those conditions that I think in my case attach somewhat more to skin-color privilege than to class, religion, ethnic status, or geographic location, though of course all these other factors are intricately intertwined. As far as I can tell, my African American coworkers, friends, and acquaintances with whom I come into daily or frequent contact in this particular time, place and time of work cannot count on most of these conditions.
I can if I wish arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
I can avoid spending time with people whom I was trained to mistrust and who have learned to mistrust my kind or me.
If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area which I can afford and in which I would want to live.
I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
When I am told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
I can be pretty sure of having my voice heard in a group in which I am the only member of my race.
I can be casual about whether or not to listen to another person’s voice in a group in which s/he is the only member of his/her race.
I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods which fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser’s shop and find someone who can cut my hair.
Whether I use checks, credit cards or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
I do not have to educate my children to be aware of systemic racism for their own daily physical protection.
I can be pretty sure that my children’s teachers and employers will tolerate them if they fit school and workplace norms; my chief worries about them do not concern others’ attitudes toward their race.
I can talk with my mouth full and not have people put this down to my color.
I can swear, or dress in second hand clothes, or not answer letters, without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty or the illiteracy of my race.
I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color who constitute the world’s majority without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
I can be pretty sure that if I ask to talk to the “person in charge”, I will be facing a person of my race.
If a traffic cop pulls me over or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven’t been singled out because of my race.
I can easily buy posters, post-cards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys and children’s magazines featuring people of my race.
I can go home from most meetings of organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in, rather than isolated, out-of-place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance or feared.
I can be pretty sure that an argument with a colleague of another race is more likely to jeopardize her/his chances for advancement than to jeopardize mine.
I can be pretty sure that if I argue for the promotion of a person of another race, or a program centering on race, this is not likely to cost me heavily within my present setting, even if my colleagues disagree with me.
If I declare there is a racial issue at hand, or there isn’t a racial issue at hand, my race will lend me more credibility for either position than a person of color will have.
I can choose to ignore developments in minority writing and minority activist programs, or disparage them, or learn from them, but in any case, I can find ways to be more or less protected from negative consequences of any of these choices.
My culture gives me little fear about ignoring the perspectives and powers of people of other races.
I am not made acutely aware that my shape, bearing or body odor will be taken as a reflection on my race.
I can worry about racism without being seen as self-interested or self-seeking.
I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having my co-workers on the job suspect that I got it because of my race.
If my day, week or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it had racial overtones.
I can be pretty sure of finding people who would be willing to talk with me and advise me about my next steps, professionally.
I can think over many options, social, political, imaginative or professional, without asking whether a person of my race would be accepted or allowed to do what I want to do.
I can be late to a meeting without having the lateness reflect on my race.
I can choose public accommodation without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help, my race will not work against me.
I can arrange my activities so that I will never have to experience feelings of rejection owing to my race.
If I have low credibility as a leader I can be sure that my race is not the problem.
I can easily find academic courses and institutions which give attention only to people of my race.
I can expect figurative language and imagery in all of the arts to testify to experiences of my race.
I can chose blemish cover or bandages in “flesh” color and have them more or less match my skin.
I can travel alone or with my spouse without expecting embarrassment or hostility in those who deal with us.
I have no difficulty finding neighborhoods where people approve of our household.
My children are given texts and classes which implicitly support our kind of family unit and do not turn them against my choice of domestic partnership.
I will feel welcomed and “normal” in the usual walks of public life, institutional and social.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I posted this in the Politics forum a while back (where it went over like a lead balloon). Personally, I find it compelling. I’m inclined to agree with rainjack that things are slowly shifting, and I think there are some dated conditions listed in the piece, but I think most of it continues to hold true.
Daily effects of white privilege
[/quote]
You will find few who will admit to even a few of those…out loud.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
EmilyQ wrote:
I posted this in the Politics forum a while back (where it went over like a lead balloon). Personally, I find it compelling. I’m inclined to agree with rainjack that things are slowly shifting, and I think there are some dated conditions listed in the piece, but I think most of it continues to hold true.
Daily effects of white privilege
You will find few who will admit to even a few of those…out loud.[/quote]
The thing about racism is that most people who don’t get it… won’t get it. I truly believe many people who are being racist think that they are not; you can see that in this very thread.
It’s like the South Park episode, it’s simply not something you can get unless you’re in the same situation. At least I understand that I don’t understand… if that makes sense.
I’m very sure there are advantages I’ve had coming up that a minority might not have had, but at the same time I’m not going to apologize for that or feel ashamed. All I can do is appreciate the opportunities I’ve been given and just try to treat everybody with fairness and respect until they prove otherwise.
It doesn’t seem like that attitude is all too popular though, at least not judging by the actions of many people I’ve encountered.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Professor X wrote:
EmilyQ wrote:
I posted this in the Politics forum a while back (where it went over like a lead balloon). Personally, I find it compelling. I’m inclined to agree with rainjack that things are slowly shifting, and I think there are some dated conditions listed in the piece, but I think most of it continues to hold true.
Daily effects of white privilege
You will find few who will admit to even a few of those…out loud.
The thing about racism is that most people who don’t get it… won’t get it. I truly believe many people who are being racist think that they are not; you can see that in this very thread.
It’s like the South Park episode, it’s simply not something you can get unless you’re in the same situation. At least I understand that I don’t understand… if that makes sense.
I’m very sure there are advantages I’ve had coming up that a minority might not have had, but at the same time I’m not going to apologize for that or feel ashamed. All I can do is appreciate the opportunities I’ve been given and just try to treat everybody with fairness and respect until they prove otherwise.
It doesn’t seem like that attitude is all too popular though, at least not judging by the actions of many people I’ve encountered.
[/quote]
If someone had written, “White people just love to complain”, I doubt there would be such few calm responses in opposition.
If someone had written, “White people just love to complain”, I doubt there would be such few calm responses in opposition.[/quote]
Funny thing is on a free expression forum, the start of all race discussions seems to be “why do black people always complain about racism?”. That sounds like complaining to me.
JT what you are doing is kind of what I see as the problem, not that I don’t appreciate the effort. To simplify things lets say racism could end this way, We’ll call it the “Air Method” of steps to take.
Racist
Realize your stereotyping.
Treat everybody fairly.
Problem is everybody seems to want to skip from 1) to 3). Which means a black person would still be treated unfairly, because someone is trying extra hard to ignore any kind of stereotyping. But stereotyping is natural, it’s basically a hypothesis of a person, that may or may not be proven correct. So while “you” will stereotype a geeky looking white kid as a geek, you won’t do that to a black person and instead just put the great guy label on him.
Did you see crash?
When they lady got attacked by the black guys when she didn’t cross the street? Perfect example, cuz I would’ve crossed the damn street when I saw them.
If someone had written, “White people just love to complain”, I doubt there would be such few calm responses in opposition.
Funny thing is on a free expression forum, the start of all race discussions seems to be “why do black people always complain about racism?”. That sounds like complaining to me.
JT what you are doing is kind of what I see as the problem, not that I don’t appreciate the effort. To simplify things lets say racism could end this way, We’ll call it the “Air Method” of steps to take.
Racist
Realize your stereotyping.
Treat everybody fairly.
Problem is everybody seems to want to skip from 1) to 3). Which means a black person would still be treated unfairly, because someone is trying extra hard to ignore any kind of stereotyping. But stereotyping is natural, it’s basically a hypothesis of a person, that may or may not be proven correct. So while “you” will stereotype a geeky looking white kid as a geek, you won’t do that to a black person and instead just put the great guy label on him.
Did you see crash?
When they lady got attacked by the black guys when she didn’t cross the street? Perfect example, cuz I would’ve crossed the damn street when I saw them. [/quote]
I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say. “Treat everybody fairly” just means to judge them as individuals and by their actions, not necessarily by their race. I didn’t say I automatically assume all black people are awesome. I just said I am willing to take a second and judge somebody as an individual, not as a representative of their entire race.
Treating people fairly doesn’t automatically assume everybody’s a rose. When I ball at a certain community center (which is in the worst part of the city), I don’t bring any cash or anything valuable besides my cellphone and I’m out of there before the sun goes down. However, I’m not going to assume that every black person is looking to kick my ass just because the gang bangers in that neighborhood like to jump white guys who are in the wrong part of town at the wrong time.
It goes both ways though. When I meet somebody who’s a minority who’s smart, intelligent, funny, or otherwise accomplished, I don’t see him/her as “credit to their race,” I see them as a credit to themselves.
[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
If someone had written, “White people just love to complain”, I doubt there would be such few calm responses in opposition.
Funny thing is on a free expression forum, the start of all race discussions seems to be “why do black people always complain about racism?”. That sounds like complaining to me.
JT what you are doing is kind of what I see as the problem, not that I don’t appreciate the effort. To simplify things lets say racism could end this way, We’ll call it the “Air Method” of steps to take.
Racist
Realize your stereotyping.
Treat everybody fairly.
Problem is everybody seems to want to skip from 1) to 3). Which means a black person would still be treated unfairly, because someone is trying extra hard to ignore any kind of stereotyping. But stereotyping is natural, it’s basically a hypothesis of a person, that may or may not be proven correct. So while “you” will stereotype a geeky looking white kid as a geek, you won’t do that to a black person and instead just put the great guy label on him.
Did you see crash?
When they lady got attacked by the black guys when she didn’t cross the street? Perfect example, cuz I would’ve crossed the damn street when I saw them.
I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say. “Treat everybody fairly” just means to judge them as individuals and by their actions, not necessarily by their race. I didn’t say I automatically assume all black people are awesome. I just said I am willing to take a second and judge somebody as an individual, not as a representative of their entire race.
Treating people fairly doesn’t automatically assume everybody’s a rose. When I ball at a certain community center (which is in the worst part of the city), I don’t bring any cash or anything valuable besides my cellphone and I’m out of there before the sun goes down. However, I’m not going to assume that every black person is looking to kick my ass just because the gang bangers in that neighborhood like to jump white guys who are in the wrong part of town at the wrong time.
It goes both ways though. When I meet somebody who’s a minority who’s smart, intelligent, funny, or otherwise accomplished, I don’t see him/her as “credit to their race,” I see them as a credit to themselves.
[/quote]
Figured most of that, I was going to type I didn’t mean you personally (just got lazy and threw it in quotes), just that in general. Most of the people that think racism doesn’t exists do so because they go out their way to avoid stereotyping other races, which in itself is a racist act.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Figured most of that, I was going to type I didn’t mean you personally (just got lazy and threw it in quotes), just that in general. Most of the people that think racism doesn’t exists do so because they go out their way to avoid stereotyping other races, which in itself is a racist act.[/quote]
[quote]Professor X wrote:
On that last comment, I seriously doubt that. Without being raised with as much degradation as our grandparents and great-grandparents, the average black person today would doubtfully go backwards and even accept that level of social slavery…even though there is still further to go.
As far as “black leaders”, there have been no true black leaders since Malcolm X and Rev. King. While I do have a certain level of respect for Jesse Jackson, he is not going to have his own holiday.
I have asked this before and I will ask it again…doesn’t the fact that you even think in terms of “black leadership” speak volumes?
Where are the “white leaders”?[/quote]
He has a point or two in his replies to you X. To move forward, we must understand each other. And many white are frustrated with these types of tactics - whether you want to call them black leaders or not and we haven’t even discussed good ol Sharpton. Sure there is work to be done - for all minorites - not just blacks.
But I don’t see how we can move forward - and I mean move forward - not be forced forward with various programs, laws and such, until everyone stops looking for an excuse to be offended. Because when you have silly tactics such as the one that started this thread (or even the whole overblown Imus incident), I think you take a lot of whites that are either in the middle or sympathetic, and make them resentful.
And then people start taking sides…and taking sides is the problem to start with isn’t it? I have a point somewhere and too bad this is a topic, like alot of topics, that don’t lend itself to a full discussion within the confines of the internet on a message board.
Anyway, I see your opponent’s point. I’m white, but travel if it were, freely between both cultures and tactics like those used by some, I’ll say “so called leaders” make me resentful and less sympathetic. I’m rambling now.
I think they should exactly what they are doing, educated black people stand up and say that no one should use that word. I haven’t said that black people are supposed to do any more than that. The only reason I said anything at all about black people using the word nigger is that, in response to my first post, some guy said “well no one should use it.” To me, that sounds like a spoiled white boy saying “it’s not fair, if I can’t use that word they can’t either.”
[/quote]
You’re a fucking idiot.
The word Nigga has to be one of the most common pieces of vocabulary used by everyone I come into contact with (15-22year olds). Black, whites, hispanics, boys and girls use the word in a non offensive manner to call someone the boy or friend or w.e. you want to call it. It is not used racially in anyway. When I go “yo what’s up my nigga” it’s used politely and that might not make sense to you but that’s just how it is.
I don’t want to use the word anymore and I feel like a lot of people don’t want to, but when something is drilled into your head everyday through the music you listen to or the programs you watch it becomes habitual to use the language. I have a foul mouth and it’s due to the same reasons.
As far as me saying that nobody should say the word and you rebuting with blacks can do whatever they want with it shows racism still exists today. if everybody was equal nobody would give a fuck what people said not segregating people with words that are so called socially unacceptable for particular races to use.
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I posted this in the Politics forum a while back (where it went over like a lead balloon). Personally, I find it compelling. I’m inclined to agree with rainjack that things are slowly shifting, and I think there are some dated conditions listed in the piece, but I think most of it continues to hold true.
[/quote]
While I am willing to grant that a few of the below are reasonably accurate, I disagree with the piece as a whole. I do not have time to go through every single point.
What does this mean? I could “arrange” to be in the company of people of my race if I wanted to drive, or if my “company” was limited to a couple of people. If this is supposed to be related to race and not geographic location, this point fails.
Again, what does this mean? If I interact with my local government or shop at local stores, I am likely to have to talk to a black employee (who I have not been “trained to mistrust,” btw, though it is cute how she tried to slide that bias in under the radar).
So is the argument that her black or minority colleagues do not make the same amount of money that she does, and therefore cannot purchase a home in an area in which they would want to live? If so, why doesn’t she just say that her minority colleagues do not make as much as she does? I suspect the answer is that she either does not know, or it isn’t true - either way is damning.
This I can only respond to with anecdotal evidence, so I will leave it alone.
Where are minorities “followed or harassed” when they go shopping? Since when could women in general make the claim that they could go to shopping centers alone without having men of multiple races possibly following or harassing them? Who is going around following and harassing minorities at shopping malls? If she has some evidence that such things are occurring, she should present it, rather than implying racial harassment through a negative statement.
I can open my local paper and see black people widely represented. Is the suggestion that local newspapers should have some sort of affirmative action in place?
When I was told about our national heritage or about “civilization,” we started in Africa and kept the theme up for the majority of the year. This is outdated.
Same point as above.
Is that a matter of professional development? I am white, but I doubt I could find a publisher for a similar piece of similar quality. What does this have to do with white privilege as opposed to professional contacts?
What does that mean? People automatically ignore minorities who are involved in a group? Give me a break.
OK, what is this “person’s voice,” anyway? Is this some kind of liberal code? You raise a point, people will either take it seriously or not. Perhaps it has nothing to do with your race… perhaps it has to do with the quality of your point. If I say foolish things, I do not expect anyone in the group to “listen to my voice” - whatever that means.
If I go into a music shop, I see large R&B/rap sections. Large Latin sections. It wasn’t so long ago that MTV was declaring that R&B was “replacing rock.” It wasn’t so long ago, in fact, that one could not actually see rock represented on MTV at all, because R&B/rap was played predominately (when music was played at all). She’s going to have to be more specific with “staple foods.” If you are Italian, you will probably have to go to a specialty store to get the “staple foods” from your cultural tradition. Same if you are Latino.
I can only respond to this anecdotally… so I’ll leave it alone.
I wish she’d taught my parents that trick. A lot of people “didn’t like” me. That is part of being a kid.
For “physical protection?” “Systemic racism?” First, how does “systemic racism” provide a physical threat to a child? Second, where are all the examples of physical acts of violence against minority children? She needs evidence for this one.
Again, anecdotal. Let’s see some evidence that minority students performing at the same level as majority students are being discriminated against.
Really? I have done all sorts of things that elicited a response of “White people…”
Last one I am going to deal with, because this has taken too long already. What “powerful male group” is she referring to, and can she give any examples of minorities speaking to such groups and having their race “put on trial?” Talk about using emotionally charged words.
My major problem with this piece is that she asserts these things without giving evidence for them, and she often asserts them by assuming that which she is trying to prove. It is just not solid thinking.
[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
But do not pretend that “whitey,” “white boy,” and “cracker” are even in the same league as “nigger.”
Maybe you grew up very sheltered or very ignorant, but whites have never faced the kind of persecution that blacks have in this country. History matters, only a fool thinks otherwise.[/quote]
It is in the same ballpark, game and league as far as I’m concerned. Racism is racism. And racism, committed in either direction, breeds more racism. Call me a cracker and I’m responding with nigger - and I hope you want to fight after that b/c that’s exactly why I’ll use the word. I don’t give an eff what happened 200 years ago and if you call me cracker, I don’t care what you’re facing today, because we all face hardship. We have to live together today. If it’s not o.k. for me, it’s not o.k. for someone else of another color. Period end of story.
You know what I find most offensive? It’s this complete lack of acknowledgement that it is white people that worked WITH blacks, to make things better. Yes, we still have a long way to go. But some would have you think there was a black militia somewhere and a civil war was fought and that they WON a war for rights and equality.
The racism flows both ways. So if I can’t call you nigger (and I shouldn’t), you sure as hell can’t call me cracker. And if blacks can lampoon and outright mock and otherwise be racist toward whites on black radio, etc., you’re damn sure not getting sympathy from me on the Imus incident, for example.
I know as many black racists as whites. Whites no longer have the monopoly on racism.
