If I’ve been on androgen for 6 weeks and was going to stop what would be best protocol. If I quit cold turkey would I feel horrible? Would tapering off over a period of weeks be better? Would I need pct? Thanks
Why do you want to do this?
If you’re young enough then the HPGA should start back up again but if not a PCT my be needed. Tapering would just delay the restart and probably make you way more miserable.
Just out of curiosity why would you quit right when you would start to see benefits?
I’m 42 (43 next month). I guess a few things, the daunting idea of doing this for life, the idea that I’m messing with my bodies natural ways and constantly worrying about levels of t and e and sides and whether or not I need it? Really weighing on my mind
Well, if your T levels are in the tank, you’re going to have alot more on your mind. Your going to feel like shit and only get worse over time. Would you feel the same way if you were diagnosed as a diabetic and required insulin daily? This is no different.
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It’s natural to die. You’d want to mess up that natural way, right?
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Your levels were in the gutter and what should concern you is how unhealthy those levels were and men that low have a higher mortality rate. This should be at the forefront of your mind, not the act of injections. The fact is you are at high risk for cardiovascular disease in your 40’s with low testosterone.
Fixing your HPTA naturally with a total testosterone of 233, never seen anyone fix natural levels quite this low. Your HPTA is too far gone, if you were going to get better naturally it would have happened already as you seem to live a healthy lifestyle.
We live in an environment full of chemicals, we pass microplastics in our stools and it’s these chemicals that are messing with our hormones. There is no such things as natural, no more organic foods not filled with pesticides that fertilized the grass that the cows feed on, chemicals in, chemicals out.
Your levels will continue to decline as you age, it will get worse as time goes on. This is a time when chemicals are attacking our endocrine systems and it will only get worse, in 20-30 year we will be unable to conceive children in western civilization.
We are the first generation to be affected by these chemicals, everyone will soon follow.
None of this is natural and yet you seek natural in a world that is being destroyed by chemicals.
Testosterone (T) has a number of important effects on the cardiovascular system. In men, T levels begin to decrease after age 40, and this decrease has been associated with an increase in all-cause mortality and cardiovascular (CV) risk. Low T levels in men may increase their risk of developing coronary artery disease (CAD), metabolic syndrome, and type 2 diabetes. Reduced T levels in men with congestive heart failure (CHF) portends a poor prognosis and is associated with increased mortality. Studies have reported a reduced CV risk with higher endogenous T concentration, improvement of known CV risk factors with T therapy, and reduced mortality in T-deficient men who underwent T replacement therapy versus untreated men. Testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) has been shown to improve myocardial ischemia in men with CAD, improve exercise capacity in patients with CHF, and improve serum glucose levels, HbA1c, and insulin resistance in men with diabetes and prediabetes.
Testosterone Threshold for Increased Cardiovascular Risk in Middle-Aged and Elderly Men:
These data showed that a testosterone threshold of 440 ng/dL was associated with increased Framingham 10-year CVD risk in middle-aged and elderly men. Poor sexual performance, decreased morning erection, and loss of libido had an impact on the testosterone threshold for CVD risk. The threshold level was higher in men with sexual dysfunction. Further study is required to evaluate the validity of these testosterone thresholds for CVD risk.
You are at half that level naturally, your risk is much higher! So the idea of injections for life doesn’t seem so terrible, the alternative does.
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No I wouldn’t. I’m not saying it’s not necessary but wonder if my natural level of 390-400 was low enough to begin?
Thanks for the detailed response it’s appreciated. My natural level was 400 though
There are lots of men who naturally were lower than their peers, it’s not fair and life isn’t fair. It all comes down to genetics, a natural 400 is on the lower end and is why you are having problems now while others aren’t who were naturally on the higher end when younger.
We start losing testosterone after 30, 1% every year and it you’re naturally scoring 800 before 30, by 40 you are in the high 600’s, your gas tank was half full to begin with and is why you are low now.
I know a guy who went on TRT in his 50’s and within a year had more muscles than he ever did naturally, because naturally do to genetics he was at a disadvantage.
Muscularture wise though I’m not in need of it. So wonder how my body is able to be as fit as it is with that level and if that means that’s maybe natural for me?
How did you feel before treatment? Something must have caused you to go to the Dr.
Listen to @systemlord, he’s making an excellent case to you. Don’t be ignorant or let your ego get in the way to fixing yourself.
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That was just an example, you sought TRT for other more important reasons. What this really has to do with is poking yourself a couple time a week with a needle for the rest of your life. If it was a simple as popping a pill down the hatch every morning we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
I was the same way in the beginning, I get it. Once you get past poking yourself on a regular basis it will get easier. Using a 29 gauge insulin syringe will make this a whole lot easier on yourself.
Grumpiness and a lack of erection quality is something that affects an old elder man, president Trump’s scores in the mid 400’s and is 72 years old and I would expect him to be having these issues.
You may have been in your prime at 400, but your pre-TRT labs show you at 233, not 400. You want to hold onto what was and it’s preventing you from moving forward with TRT.
I see a lot of men excited about starting TRT and tap out after a short time because they want the natural levels that had 10-20 years ago and the waste years of their life trying to get back what they lost and it’s a colossal waste of time.
You’re losing testosterone every year past 30, you can’t go back to the way things were unless you have found the fountain of youth.
You have an advantage, you know where your levels were, if you stay on TRT and get your levels to the 400-500 range, your gains in the gym won’t be plateauing in the gym in 6 months. You will be at a whole new level.
Sorry. Just for clarification. My pre trt was 400. The 200 number was my trough on androgel The 1400 number was my peak on androgel
One odd thing I’ve found is that though my erection quality has gone up ( pun intended) I feel like my libido has decreased. Another worry I have is gyno. I did use aas in high school and have always had a bump behind nipple. Very paranoid about developing the dreaded moobs I suppose. With low e2 is that a possibility? And speaking of e2 why the heck is mine still so low with such high t?
Moody. Tired in morning. Tired in afternoon.
All of us have been there. We’re telling you how much better it is when you get your hormone profile fixed.
DON’T STOP.
Hi 259317,
I believe this is your real issue. from a natural lvl of 400 to 1400 OMG. Your body is freaking out trying to balance everything back to a normal state. The way you think and how all your body part work are going to be effected.
On the topic of did you need TRT did they test your SHGB? If you have a low SHGB (20-26) A TT of 400 can still give you a mid to high range Free T and that is where its all at.
If your current gel application is 2 clicks per day and you are running a TT1400 cut that in half and just wait for 3 months and give your body time to adjust. Again if your natural TT is 400 just see what 600-700 feels like. Always keep your Free T in range even on peak days and you won’t have Gyno issues.
My guess. Your low E2 is probably because you are skinny with no body fat to make E2.
Mutations in the CYP19A1 gene have been found to cause aromatase deficiency. Low estrogen is more dangerous than low testosterone, osteoporosis is associated with low estrogen.
A dexa scan would tell you your bone density and if estrogen is low for you.
What’s the worst you’ve ever felt in your life? The worst I ever felt (before coming off of TRT cold-turkey) was having pneumonia for two months. I’d happily take pneumonia for 2 years over the absolute hell of the 10 months after I came off of TRT with no PCT.
DO NOT DO THIS.