Questions About Training

[quote]Chalky09Aus wrote:
To ask a proper question then, what would your advice be regarding frequency of muscle training, (I.E lower volume/session twice a week or high volume session once a week)?

I am with you on the high weight low reps philosophy and the partials etc.

Also, What is your view on rest periods? (Both between sets and between programs/cycles)

Thanks, sorry again for posting my program, Just enthusiastic for information and improvement.

Marshall.[/quote]

  1. As I just mentionned, to me the actual training split is the least important factor in your workout. I’m not saying that it is NOT important, but it will rarely make or break your program unless you are doing something truely idiotic.

  2. I also like to use a specialization approach where I have 3 weekly workouts for two target bodyparts (both are trained on the same days and they must work together… look at the post before yours) and the rest of the body is trained over 2 days.

  3. Regarding rest intervals. I think that those who are using a timer during their workouts are idiots. The rest intervals should be dictated by your working state. Rest long enough to be able to perform, but no more.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Chalky09Aus wrote:
To ask a proper question then, what would your advice be regarding frequency of muscle training, (I.E lower volume/session twice a week or high volume session once a week)?

I am with you on the high weight low reps philosophy and the partials etc.

Also, What is your view on rest periods? (Both between sets and between programs/cycles)

Thanks, sorry again for posting my program, Just enthusiastic for information and improvement.

Marshall.

  1. As I just mentionned, to me the actual training split is the least important factor in your workout. I’m not saying that it is NOT important, but it will rarely make or break your program unless you are doing something truely idiotic.

  2. I also like to use a specialization approach where I have 3 weekly workouts for two target bodyparts (both are trained on the same days and they must work together… look at the post before yours) and the rest of the body is trained over 2 days.

  3. Regarding rest intervals. I think that those who are using a timer during their workouts are idiots. The rest intervals should be dictated by your working state. Rest long enough to be able to perform, but no more.[/quote]

Are you using the specialization approach with more advance trainee or it’s something you use with anyone?

[quote]joebassin wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Chalky09Aus wrote:
To ask a proper question then, what would your advice be regarding frequency of muscle training, (I.E lower volume/session twice a week or high volume session once a week)?

I am with you on the high weight low reps philosophy and the partials etc.

Also, What is your view on rest periods? (Both between sets and between programs/cycles)

Thanks, sorry again for posting my program, Just enthusiastic for information and improvement.

Marshall.

  1. As I just mentionned, to me the actual training split is the least important factor in your workout. I’m not saying that it is NOT important, but it will rarely make or break your program unless you are doing something truely idiotic.

  2. I also like to use a specialization approach where I have 3 weekly workouts for two target bodyparts (both are trained on the same days and they must work together… look at the post before yours) and the rest of the body is trained over 2 days.

  3. Regarding rest intervals. I think that those who are using a timer during their workouts are idiots. The rest intervals should be dictated by your working state. Rest long enough to be able to perform, but no more.

Are you using the specialization approach with more advance trainee or it’s something you use with anyone?
[/quote]

I’d use it with intermediate on up. To be able to benefit from this approach one must first know how to train properly.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
AtleticoMadrid wrote:
Thib,

After an athlete has spent time developing high levels of strength and spent more time developing the ability to produce high levels of power, what would be some of the best ways to develop power-endurance? This question would apply to athletes in any fighting sport, as well as a number of others.

Do you simply pick power exercises for the muscles involved in the sport and then execute low reps sets (3-5 reps) focusing on quality and speed of movement while progressively compressing rest periods (example, starting out resting 45-60 seconds between and compressing it down to a low of 15 seconds) over the course of several weeks? And if so, is this type of work to be used in brief phases, as needed before a particular event (as opposed to year round), with the focus of most of the training year on further developing strength and power production?

And lastly, can this type of work be placed at the end of a training session when some level of cumulative fatigue has been built-up to further mimic a sporting event where you will be fatigued at various times?

Hope all is well, coach!

For power-endurance (I prefer to call that anaerobic capacity) I would use a form of circuit, utilizing antagonist muscles. For example:

A1. Power clean
3 reps

A2. Chin-ups
3 reps

A3. Power snatch
3 reps

A4. Pull-ups
3 reps

  • Every rep has to be done explosively
  • Use around 80% (or the maximum weight you can still accelerate)
  • Stop an exercise when it`s not explosive anymore
  • Work toward reducing the rest between exercises
    [/quote]

In terms of anaerobic capacity (I’ll use your terminology, since it more accurately highlights what’s being focused on), would this be trained at the end of a training session or would it be split up and placed on its own?

Would you only include it during a phase of training if you saw the athlete was lacking in this area (and it was needed for optimal performance in that sport) or would it likely be included to some degree in almost all phases?

And lastly, would this type of template work for an athlete in any sport that needed anaerobic capacity, and if so, is the important part selecting movements that focus on as much musculature as possible or would it become necessary to ā€œcustomizeā€ these types of circuits more depending upon the sport in question?

Thanks again, Thb, I greatly appreciate your help.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Chalky09Aus wrote:
To ask a proper question then, what would your advice be regarding frequency of muscle training, (I.E lower volume/session twice a week or high volume session once a week)?

I am with you on the high weight low reps philosophy and the partials etc.

Also, What is your view on rest periods? (Both between sets and between programs/cycles)

Thanks, sorry again for posting my program, Just enthusiastic for information and improvement.

Marshall.

  1. As I just mentionned, to me the actual training split is the least important factor in your workout. I’m not saying that it is NOT important, but it will rarely make or break your program unless you are doing something truely idiotic.

  2. I also like to use a specialization approach where I have 3 weekly workouts for two target bodyparts (both are trained on the same days and they must work together… look at the post before yours) and the rest of the body is trained over 2 days.

  3. Regarding rest intervals. I think that those who are using a timer during their workouts are idiots. The rest intervals should be dictated by your working state. Rest long enough to be able to perform, but no more.[/quote]

Would the specialization approach still be as much effective when maintenance work is done on spec workout days ? Then it becomes a whole body workout in essence and you’d still have to lift quite heavy on those maintenance lifts (3/2/1/3/2/1 for example)

Hey Thib no questions, I’m just kind of in Olympic-mode right now. I came across these words by Mel Siff and thought this was pretty interesting:

"We often seem to revisit the topic of specificity of training and a
comparison of the methods used by the Russians and Bulgarians, so I would like to share comments made to me in Russia some years ago by Prof Alexei Medvedev, former world champion weightlifter, coach of the Russian national team and current Head of the Department of Weightlifting at the State Central Institute of Physical Culture in Moscow.

We were discussing (through an interpreting friend) this very issue of Bulgarian vs Russian training methods. He shared many insights with me, including the different methods of quantifying training intensity and periodising weightlifting for different classes of lifter, but this one short comment stood out at the time:

Standing there in his dimly-lit office with his hand on my shoulder, Prof Medvedev said:

ā€œWhy do you think that the Bulgarians have so many injuries?ā€ He went on to comment on the typically long years of top-level competition by Russian athletes, their higher average age at the Olympics and their lower injury rate. He added that a certain Bulgarian coach had been contracted to work with teams in China and before long the increased injury rate and drop in consistent form had ended up in his being dismissed very quickly (actually, he used a rude gesture with his arm to show exactly what the Chinese felt about that coach!).

To add to this debate from the other side of the fence, my weightlifting coach for several years was a top Bulgarian lifter who had trained with Abadjiev and Spassov, as well as all the famous names in contemporary Bulgarian lifting and he had very definite views on the Bulgarian system, both good and bad. In explaining what athletes are expected to do in Bulgaria, their coaches told them that if they became injured or painfully overtrained, then they obviously weren’t good enough for top level competition!

With great satisfaction, he added that if a nation with a total population of only one big American city could place so often in the top few nations at the Olympics, then something serious must be wrong with American training. That was his simplistic analysis! (Anyway, that was before the last Olympics). No results, no use for anyone! Bulgarian athlete - no results - no place for you!

At first I thought that this philosophy is unduly harsh, when I realised that it is not all that different anywhere else in the world. The Chicago Bulls start losing a few games in basketball and in no time, the fans are baying for blood. In world soccer, the scene is no different, nor in American football. Win most of the time and the fans are deliriously happy - lose one or two and all the armchair experts and team owners are ready to sacrifice coaches and players.

So, when one examines the so-called Bulgarian system, one cannot lose sight of the different cultural systems governing the sport. One cannot simple take a philosophy, training method or lifestyle (or even foodstuff) from one country and hope to apply with equal success anywhere else.

Anyway, a lot of this talk about ā€˜Bulgarian’ and ā€˜Russian’ systems is somewhat of a misnomer, for, as Medvedev emphasized to me: ā€œThere is no such thing as one Russian system - we have many coaches and guidelines and each coach is allowed to develop his own system. It is the Americans who are so
rigid , not us - they want fast foods, fast formulae and fixed programs that are easy to applyā€.

He nodded in agreement when I commented: ā€œYou mean something like a sporting MacDonalds where you can drive up and get a training program off a menu without waiting?ā€ Sad and amusing, but all too often, true in America. Why do you think that muscle building, fitness, strength training, sports, rehabilitation and health books sell best if they offer rigidly devised set exercise routines for anyone and everyone, without much attempt at in-depth analysis or individualisation?"

Dr Mel C Siff

I can’t help but to agree with him.

Hey Thib,

When you mention the training blocks at the top of this page, how many exercises/sets do you utilize for the group?

Do you do the same exercises for each of the 3 sessions per week(for each group) or do you mix it around?

I would assume that the remaining groups not being concentrated on are trained using light/moderate weights or do you recommend lifting heavy as well?

Hi Christian,

I’m having a bit of analysis paralysis on intensity. I’ve read that working at or above 85% max for more than 3 weeks cannot be maintained and will lead to neural fatigue, and that one should cycle 3 weeks of high intensity with 3 weeks of lower intensity (below 85%). But it seems less than ideal to avoid working at 85% or more for 3 whole weeks at a time. How would you periodize intensity for a goal of gaining size and strength?

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Chalky09Aus wrote:
To ask a proper question then, what would your advice be regarding frequency of muscle training, (I.E lower volume/session twice a week or high volume session once a week)?

I am with you on the high weight low reps philosophy and the partials etc.

Also, What is your view on rest periods? (Both between sets and between programs/cycles)

Thanks, sorry again for posting my program, Just enthusiastic for information and improvement.

Marshall.

  1. As I just mentionned, to me the actual training split is the least important factor in your workout. I’m not saying that it is NOT important, but it will rarely make or break your program unless you are doing something truely idiotic.

  2. I also like to use a specialization approach where I have 3 weekly workouts for two target bodyparts (both are trained on the same days and they must work together… look at the post before yours) and the rest of the body is trained over 2 days.

  3. Regarding rest intervals. I think that those who are using a timer during their workouts are idiots. The rest intervals should be dictated by your working state. Rest long enough to be able to perform, but no more.

Would the specialization approach still be as much effective when maintenance work is done on spec workout days ? Then it becomes a whole body workout in essence and you’d still have to lift quite heavy on those maintenance lifts (3/2/1/3/2/1 for example)
[/quote]

If you have to choice, meaning that you REALLY CAN’T add a 4th or 2nd workout during the week, yeah, I’d do that. For example:

DAY 1
Start with spec work
Maintenance for half of the muscle groups

DAY 2
Start with spec work
Maintenance for second half of the muscle groups

DAY 3
Start with spec work
Maintenance for first half of the muscle groups

Etc. (on the second week you would start the maintenace with the second half of the muscle groups).

For example…

DAY 1
Chest and triceps spec workout 1
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 2
Chest ans triceps spec workout 2
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 3
Chest and triceps spec workout 3
Shoulders and legs maintenance

WEEK 2

DAY 1
Chest ans triceps spec workout 1
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 2
Chest and triceps spec workout 2
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 3
Chest ans triceps spec workout 3
Back and biceps maintenance

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
)

If you have to choice, meaning that you REALLY CAN’T add a 4th or 2nd workout during the week, yeah, I’d do that. For example:

DAY 1
Start with spec work
Maintenance for half of the muscle groups

DAY 2
Start with spec work
Maintenance for second half of the muscle groups

DAY 3
Start with spec work
Maintenance for first half of the muscle groups

Etc. (on the second week you would start the maintenace with the second half of the muscle groups).

For example…

DAY 1
Chest and triceps spec workout 1
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 2
Chest ans triceps spec workout 2
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 3
Chest and triceps spec workout 3
Shoulders and legs maintenance

WEEK 2

DAY 1
Chest ans triceps spec workout 1
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 2
Chest and triceps spec workout 2
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 3
Chest ans triceps spec workout 3
Back and biceps maintenance[/quote]

Thanks for clearing this out.

For shoulders though, do you mean isolation exercises? I see doing low-rep shoulder presses could seriously affect recovery in chest/tris spec phase due to heavy triceps involvement. Or maybe that won’t be a big factor due to low volume ?

By the way, on maintenance even when you work up to 1 rep in wave-style, it shouldn’t be your previous 1RMs on those movements, right ? No more than 95-97% I’d guess ?

So your split is kind of like a push/pull… Do you split the body parts like that for a reason (recovery aspects). Why not Chest and bi’s, back and tri’s. Does it make a difference?

Also how would this look…
day 1. spec chest/tris workout 1 (different exercises)
day 2. legs/shoulders
day 3 off
day 4 spec chest tris workout 2 (different exercises)
day 5 back biceps
day 6 off
day 7 off

week 2
day 1. spec chest tris workout 3 (different exercises)
etc…
Keeping all the ā€œrest of the bodyā€ exercises the same for the 2-7 weeks untill i chnage the next block?

Also why is there 4 blocks…The blocks are:

Shoulders and Traps
Back and Biceps
Quads and Hams
Chest and Triceps

Shouldnt legs and shoulders go together? Or is that only when its maintanence?

CT,
When you did OVT training, how did you set up the weight used throughout the 3-5 sets of the first exercise. Did you work up to your heaviest set, or did you hit it first? I understand that there are a variety of ways one could do it, but I was wondering which you thought was the best/how you did it? Hope my question makes sense.

-Evan

CT,
will cluster training play a large part in this program and do you think that concentric beginning movements ie bench from pins/deadlifts put more stress on the muscle than movements starting with the eccentric phase due to the stretch shortening cycle being eliminated?
Also does concentric starting movements fatigue the cns at a faster rate?

I tried your ramping system on bench press today. I think I screw because I went to heavy before the top sets. This could also be a case of rest longer you stupid, but I feel that even with very long rest time if you do too much work on the ramp you will not reach your max weight. Anyway this lead me to some questions.

You said in an earlier post that everything at or above 70% 1 RM is a work set. Now I realise this donĆ¢??t give you much range to ramp if your are not very strong or using smaller movement (DB curl, lateral raises, etc… ) How do you deal with that?

Would you say that number of sets is not important but that one should only be concern by (suppose program call for 5x5):
1- Reaching your 5RM
2- Always trying to push the weight as hard/fast as you can on all reps

Hereâ??s an example too ilustrate what I mean:

Suppose my 5RM is 175lbs, then 1RM should be around 200lbs so all sets at or above 140lbs are work sets. Now I may go
140lbs x 5
150 lbs x 5
160 lbs x 5
170 lbs x 4 (too much fatigue so I donâ??t reach my 5RM of the day)

So next time I should drop 1 or 2 sets and do may be 140-155-175lbs. So I have 3 work sets and may be with time I will be able to do more work sets. (And that would be a form of auto regulation ??)

Also for those spec workouts how much volume (sets/reps) do you recommed per bodypart. Specifically if I picked Chest/Tris for my 3 times a week spec? Also I would start my workout with a HTMU activation exercise like the explosive pushup to increase my stength and wake up my fast twich fibers. And DO that on each workoutday only on my FIRST exercise.

hello again coach and sorry about the boring questions.so where you have written articles about ramp sets and motorlerning training metod to see it myshelf?also which is believe is the best lower back exercise for a weightlifter?also cn you give sample exercise which can i utilize for upper back strength(which is more suitable with olympic style weightlifting.thanks!iam looking forward to hearing for you.

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
)

If you have to choice, meaning that you REALLY CAN’T add a 4th or 2nd workout during the week, yeah, I’d do that. For example:

DAY 1
Start with spec work
Maintenance for half of the muscle groups

DAY 2
Start with spec work
Maintenance for second half of the muscle groups

DAY 3
Start with spec work
Maintenance for first half of the muscle groups

Etc. (on the second week you would start the maintenace with the second half of the muscle groups).

For example…

DAY 1
Chest and triceps spec workout 1
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 2
Chest ans triceps spec workout 2
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 3
Chest and triceps spec workout 3
Shoulders and legs maintenance

WEEK 2

DAY 1
Chest ans triceps spec workout 1
Back and biceps maintenance

DAY 2
Chest and triceps spec workout 2
Shoulders and legs maintenance

DAY 3
Chest ans triceps spec workout 3
Back and biceps maintenance

Thanks for clearing this out.

For shoulders though, do you mean isolation exercises? I see doing low-rep shoulder presses could seriously affect recovery in chest/tris spec phase due to heavy triceps involvement. Or maybe that won’t be a big factor due to low volume ?

By the way, on maintenance even when you work up to 1 rep in wave-style, it shouldn’t be your previous 1RMs on those movements, right ? No more than 95-97% I’d guess ?

[/quote]

I wouldn’t worry too much about it. You do want to minimize the cross-over effect as much as possible but 1 pressing exercise for shoulder should not be a problem. But then again, autoregulate… if the shoulder presses don’t feel powerful, stop doing them.

[quote]Thy. wrote:

By the way, on maintenance even when you work up to 1 rep in wave-style, it shouldn’t be your previous 1RMs on those movements, right ? No more than 95-97% I’d guess ?

[/quote]

For the maintenance work the lowest I’ll go is 3 reps per set, although I might use a 1-3 ratchet style but in that case the one rep isn’t actually tough because you do one explosive rep with the weight you will use for our set of 3.

[quote]ebomb5522 wrote:
CT,
When you did OVT training, how did you set up the weight used throughout the 3-5 sets of the first exercise. Did you work up to your heaviest set, or did you hit it first? I understand that there are a variety of ways one could do it, but I was wondering which you thought was the best/how you did it? Hope my question makes sense.

-Evan[/quote]

I always ramp up the weight, regardless of the program. It has always been the way I trained.

[quote]adamhawkins wrote:
CT,
will cluster training play a large part in this program and do you think that concentric beginning movements ie bench from pins/deadlifts put more stress on the muscle than movements starting with the eccentric phase due to the stretch shortening cycle being eliminated?
Also does concentric starting movements fatigue the cns at a faster rate?[/quote]

Yes they play an important role, yes they are a lot more draining on the CNS. One REP of the cluster set has a similar effect to 1 normal heavy SET on the nervous system.

So if you do 2 heavy clusters of 3 reps, the neural effect is similar to doing 6 sets.