Questions About Training

Training
1061

[quote]SpinFast wrote:
Coach Thib,

What are your thoughts on using pin bench presses as an activity to turn on the CNS during exercise. I have always started with something like 5x5 full bench presses with a medium weight before moving on to something like 5x3 pin presses, however, would I benefit more from activating the CNS first with some pin presses before heading over to the full rep bench?

Thanks for your help.[/quote]

Where have you been for the past 6 months?! I mentioned that I did that SEVERAL TIMES before. Heck, there is a video of me doing it in this order!!! And Nate Green discussed it in one article where he interviewed me about it (although we used the squat as an example).

1062

coach hello from greece.can you explain me the motor learning and the ramp set training methods?i think is very useful in olympic style weightlifting.what is your opinion.also do you know if pierre roy(your weightlifing coach) has written any book about weightlifting?i am looking forward to hearing for you.

1063

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.[/quote]

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.

1064

[quote]makis wrote:
coach hello from greece.can you explain me the motor learning and the ramp set training methods?i think is very useful in olympic style weightlifting.what is your opinion.also do you know if pierre roy(your weightlifing coach) has written any book about weightlifting?i am looking forward to hearing for you.[/quote]

I explained both concepts extensively in my thread. I HATE repeating myself.

No, Pierre has never written any book.

1065

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.[/quote]

If your goal is absolute strength and do not care about staying at a certain weight (some people just donā€™t want to gain weight) then the 85% set will be useful.

The amount of muscle you have increases your strength potential. Making muscles bigger while learning how to use them by doing low-rep explosive (or heavy) work will increase our strength faster than not building that added muscle.

1066

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.

If your goal is absolute strength and do not care about staying at a certain weight (some people just donā€™t want to gain weight) then the 85% set will be useful.

The amount of muscle you have increases your strength potential. Making muscles bigger while learning how to use them by doing low-rep explosive (or heavy) work will increase our strength faster than not building that added muscle.[/quote]

I donā€™t eat enough to gain mass due to health problems and schedule and donā€™t use supplemnents. Thatā€™s why doing something thatā€™s useful for hypertrophy would only be a waste of recovery energy needed for main goal (strength). But if you say itā€™s worth it for strength, then Iā€™ll try it.

1067

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.

If your goal is absolute strength and do not care about staying at a certain weight (some people just donā€™t want to gain weight) then the 85% set will be useful.

The amount of muscle you have increases your strength potential. Making muscles bigger while learning how to use them by doing low-rep explosive (or heavy) work will increase our strength faster than not building that added muscle.

I donā€™t eat enough to gain mass due to health problems and schedule and donā€™t use supplemnents. Thatā€™s why doing something thatā€™s useful for hypertrophy would only be a waste of recovery energy needed for main goal (strength). But if you say itā€™s worth it for strength, then Iā€™ll try it.[/quote]

The problem is that if you canā€™t eat enough to progress your gains, size or STRENGTH will be dismal at best. The best training program in the world will never be able to make up for lack of dietary support.

1068

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.

If your goal is absolute strength and do not care about staying at a certain weight (some people just donā€™t want to gain weight) then the 85% set will be useful.

The amount of muscle you have increases your strength potential. Making muscles bigger while learning how to use them by doing low-rep explosive (or heavy) work will increase our strength faster than not building that added muscle.

I donā€™t eat enough to gain mass due to health problems and schedule and donā€™t use supplemnents. Thatā€™s why doing something thatā€™s useful for hypertrophy would only be a waste of recovery energy needed for main goal (strength). But if you say itā€™s worth it for strength, then Iā€™ll try it.

The problem is that if you canā€™t eat enough to progress your gains, size or STRENGTH will be dismal at best. The best training program in the world will never be able to make up for lack of dietary support.
[/quote]

To be exact, I eat at least 2xbw (in kg) protein in whole foods and a lot of fat with it. But I donā€™t put on mass easily, thatā€™s why I need a lot of carbs. But I canā€™t eat a lot of carbs because theyā€™re very hard on my digestive systemā€¦ But with my little knowledge I would guess that protein is more important for strength recovery ?

1069

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, Iā€™m doing pull-ups with ramping method, but my gym has a stupid ā€œhookā€ for weighted pull-ups which allows only one plate to be hanged. So I make 5 kg jumps and reach a max set like this in the best case : 0,5,10,15,20 kg, and even less sets with a harder grip.

Would you recommend to add some more pyramid sets : 0,5,10,15,10,5,0 to get more volume and focus on max speed on those last sets after the potentiation effect with heavier weight ? Or youā€™d recommend to terminate the exercise once the max ramped set is reached in any case ?

NO! Stop after you ramped up for the max weight you can do for the number of reps planned. If you want to add more work, add ONE set to the last exercise for a muscle groupā€¦ use 85% of the maximum weight YOU USED THAT DAY and do as many reps as you can.

Does maximum capacity set have any place for max strength as a goal? The way I see it, itā€™s great for added hypertrophy stimuli but not great for strength, as it might hinder recovery, especially if you are going to train the same muscle group in 48 or 72 hours (whole body training). That is of course if you do it to technical failure.

If your goal is absolute strength and do not care about staying at a certain weight (some people just donā€™t want to gain weight) then the 85% set will be useful.

The amount of muscle you have increases your strength potential. Making muscles bigger while learning how to use them by doing low-rep explosive (or heavy) work will increase our strength faster than not building that added muscle.

I donā€™t eat enough to gain mass due to health problems and schedule and donā€™t use supplemnents. Thatā€™s why doing something thatā€™s useful for hypertrophy would only be a waste of recovery energy needed for main goal (strength). But if you say itā€™s worth it for strength, then Iā€™ll try it.

The problem is that if you canā€™t eat enough to progress your gains, size or STRENGTH will be dismal at best. The best training program in the world will never be able to make up for lack of dietary support.

To be exact, I eat at least 2xbw (in kg) protein in whole foods and a lot of fat with it. But I donā€™t put on mass easily, thatā€™s why I need a lot of carbs. But I canā€™t eat a lot of carbs because theyā€™re very hard on my digestive systemā€¦ But with my little knowledge I would guess that protein is more important for strength recovery ?
[/quote]

If you donā€™t want to put on weight, would this method still be effective? If so, what percentage should I be using?

1070

CT- I train heavy 3 days a week, but also deliver mail 5-6 days a week, which about 5-7 miles of walking per day. I was wondering if all this walking would require me to eat above the 1.5 g of protein Iā€™m already eating, or, just increase fats/carbs? Iā€™m currently, using your protocol, sans the casein, and eating 3500-4000 cals a day, 400-500g carbs, and 85g fat. Plus eating whatever I want I Sundays. Yet, I remain 5ā€™10ā€™', and 170lbs. Iā€™d like to get up to at least 180lb without gaining too much fat, not sure where to go from here. Thanks.

1071

when ramping is performed correctly, and autoregulation occurs, can it have an affect on the entire body or just the muscle group that was used for the ramp? i guess what im trying to say is does each body part need to be autoregulated (given this is the same session) or does the CNS take over and all muscle groups go into ā€œthe zoneā€? thank you

1072

I hate to ask such newbie questions after training 30 yrs and even competing in BB fairly successfully, but I never trained for strength and seemed to get good size from training hard and eating well. I started reading your articles and others on T-Nation and decided to change to training explosively and reps 1-5 on compond movements for something different and I did not really get any bigger(diet?) but did get stronger with a few new nagging shoulder and back issues.

So, I think I respond to higher reps for hypertrophy ( 8-12 reps) but I never have done ramping up in weight, I have warmed up and ramped down with good success. I currently do straight sets and use a weight guesstamated at 70% 1rm and do 12 reps on 1st set and try to finish up with 5 sets at 12 reps not always getting 12 and staying with that weight until 5x12 is obtained.

My question is: Can I ramp and still keep reps at 8-12 without using weight ridicuously low or should I stay with straight sets if I get good results? I question myself because of what you write and would hate to be training in a inefficient method. Does ramping work well with rep ranges of 8-12. I also wonder if i am just too old(48) to expect any more growth or be happy to just maintain what muscle I am carrying.

1073

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. The supplements protocol is a big key to maximum progress. Sadly, whole food cannot replace it because specific types of protein and carbs are needed to get the proper effect. Not to mention the various substrates that will help push back the anaerobic threshold and speed up recovery.[/quote]

Thib,

While I understand it would be absolutely impossible for you to know for certain, if you had to take a guess, what do you think the difference in results would be if you took the same person and could train and feed him under nearly identical circumstances where the only difference between situations was the use of the specific supplements/ingredients you speak of in one and their absence in the other (with that situation either using food alone or food with supplementation previously regarded as good but not on the level of what youā€™ve been experimenting with)?

For this, assume that the training in both instances would be what you would consider to be ideal based upon the characteristics you mentioned above.

Would the supplemented situation ā€œblowā€ away the other one or would the results be great on both, but with the edge certainly going to the specially supplemented situation?

We always hear guys saying how supplements only make a marginal difference, and while I can definitely see how a specific blend of the right ingredients can enhance results to some degree, Iā€™m just curious as to the magnitude.

1074

Christian, do you still consider Mechanical Drop Set 12 Week Program to be a solid, good program?

Thanks.

1075

Thib,

After an athlete has spent time developing high levels of strength and spent more time developing the ability to produce high levels of power, what would be some of the best ways to develop power-endurance? This question would apply to athletes in any fighting sport, as well as a number of others.

Do you simply pick power exercises for the muscles involved in the sport and then execute low reps sets (3-5 reps) focusing on quality and speed of movement while progressively compressing rest periods (example, starting out resting 45-60 seconds between and compressing it down to a low of 15 seconds) over the course of several weeks? And if so, is this type of work to be used in brief phases, as needed before a particular event (as opposed to year round), with the focus of most of the training year on further developing strength and power production?

And lastly, can this type of work be placed at the end of a training session when some level of cumulative fatigue has been built-up to further mimic a sporting event where you will be fatigued at various times?

Hope all is well, coach!

1076

[quote]Quadforce wrote:
Christian, do you still consider Mechanical Drop Set 12 Week Program to be a solid, good program?

Thanks.[/quote]

It will work mostly with slow-twitch dominant individuals. I still consider this technique effective when used properly, but I PERSONALLY would not use it as a whole program.

1077

[quote]BoSoxFever wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

  1. The supplements protocol is a big key to maximum progress. Sadly, whole food cannot replace it because specific types of protein and carbs are needed to get the proper effect. Not to mention the various substrates that will help push back the anaerobic threshold and speed up recovery.

Thib,

While I understand it would be absolutely impossible for you to know for certain, if you had to take a guess, what do you think the difference in results would be if you took the same person and could train and feed him under nearly identical circumstances where the only difference between situations was the use of the specific supplements/ingredients you speak of in one and their absence in the other (with that situation either using food alone or food with supplementation previously regarded as good but not on the level of what youā€™ve been experimenting with)?

For this, assume that the training in both instances would be what you would consider to be ideal based upon the characteristics you mentioned above.

Would the supplemented situation ā€œblowā€ away the other one or would the results be great on both, but with the edge certainly going to the specially supplemented situation?

We always hear guys saying how supplements only make a marginal difference, and while I can definitely see how a specific blend of the right ingredients can enhance results to some degree, Iā€™m just curious as to the magnitude.[/quote]

The problem is that you cant compare. The guy using the proper supplement protocol will be able to recover from a higher workload; thus he can train more. The more you train, without exceeding your capacities to recover, the more youll progress.

1078

[quote]AtleticoMadrid wrote:
Thib,

After an athlete has spent time developing high levels of strength and spent more time developing the ability to produce high levels of power, what would be some of the best ways to develop power-endurance? This question would apply to athletes in any fighting sport, as well as a number of others.

Do you simply pick power exercises for the muscles involved in the sport and then execute low reps sets (3-5 reps) focusing on quality and speed of movement while progressively compressing rest periods (example, starting out resting 45-60 seconds between and compressing it down to a low of 15 seconds) over the course of several weeks? And if so, is this type of work to be used in brief phases, as needed before a particular event (as opposed to year round), with the focus of most of the training year on further developing strength and power production?

And lastly, can this type of work be placed at the end of a training session when some level of cumulative fatigue has been built-up to further mimic a sporting event where you will be fatigued at various times?

Hope all is well, coach![/quote]

For power-endurance (I prefer to call that anaerobic capacity) I would use a form of circuit, utilizing antagonist muscles. For example:

A1. Power clean
3 reps

A2. Chin-ups
3 reps

A3. Power snatch
3 reps

A4. Pull-ups
3 reps

  • Every rep has to be done explosively
  • Use around 80% (or the maximum weight you can still accelerate)
  • Stop an exercise when it`s not explosive anymore
  • Work toward reducing the rest between exercises
1079

[quote]FERCHCORE wrote:
CT- I train heavy 3 days a week, but also deliver mail 5-6 days a week, which about 5-7 miles of walking per day. I was wondering if all this walking would require me to eat above the 1.5 g of protein Iā€™m already eating, or, just increase fats/carbs? Iā€™m currently, using your protocol, sans the casein, and eating 3500-4000 cals a day, 400-500g carbs, and 85g fat. Plus eating whatever I want I Sundays. Yet, I remain 5ā€™10ā€™', and 170lbs. Iā€™d like to get up to at least 180lb without gaining too much fat, not sure where to go from here. Thanks.[/quote]

You cant force protein synthesis by ingesting more protein, well you can but past a certain point it doesnt work.

Walking is mostly aerobic and rarely will it lead to a severe increase in protein needs. You may need to increase energy nutrients (fat, carbs) intake.

1080

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
when ramping is performed correctly, and autoregulation occurs, can it have an affect on the entire body or just the muscle group that was used for the ramp? i guess what im trying to say is does each body part need to be autoregulated (given this is the same session) or does the CNS take over and all muscle groups go into ā€œthe zoneā€? thank you[/quote]

It is mostly muscle-specific but if you do it right, when using a compound movement the effect should be systemic (feeling of being ā€˜in the zoneā€™)