Thib,
Why do some olympic lifters even from the same school (country) do everything with more outwardly rotated thighs/feet/knees , usually wider stance and others with thighs/feet/knees with little to no outward rotation (more perpendicular to ground)
Is this mostly due to individual muscle dominance ? Those who lift more outward have more dominant outer portions of the thigh ?
CT,
In your travels and experience, have you found certain splits to be more effective for ectomorphic individuals who would be classified as intermediate to advanced based on lifting years? I am considering tweaking my split (I have been doing a Chest/Back off Legs Shoulders/Arms off Reapeat) and am considering a more classical 1 Bodypart a week but I am concerned that the frequency will not be sufficient.
[quote]pflifter wrote:
CT,
In your travels and experience, have you found certain splits to be more effective for ectomorphic individuals who would be classified as intermediate to advanced based on lifting years? I am considering tweaking my split (I have been doing a Chest/Back off Legs Shoulders/Arms off Reapeat) and am considering a more classical 1 Bodypart a week but I am concerned that the frequency will not be sufficient.[/quote]
To be honest, your training split is probably the least important factor involved in progress. As long as it is not idiotic, most splits will work if you know how to train properly.
I would suggest hitting each muscle groups twice a week though.
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib,
Why do some olympic lifters even from the same school (country) do everything with more outwardly rotated thighs/feet/knees , usually wider stance and others with thighs/feet/knees with little to no outward rotation (more perpendicular to ground)
Is this mostly due to individual muscle dominance ? Those who lift more outward have more dominant outer portions of the thigh ?[/quote]
Oftentimes it is because of skeletal structure. For example, most Asians have externally rotated (feet pointing 45 degrees out) ⊠I am like that myself. If this is your natural walking position, it makes little sense to use a feet position that feels unnatural.
The hips turned out position is also good for those with longer femurs (lower leg) compared to their upper leg length. Lifting with straight feet when your legs are this way is hard because the knees get in the way of the bar, so you canât keep it close. Turning the hips out help get the knees out of the way.
[quote]View 1 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thunderstruck88 wrote:
Thib,
When it comes to performing straight sets of a given number of reps with the same weight, youâd execute a few practice sets to get a feel for the working weight and then move on to the âworkâ sets. At any given load, youâd likely end up either coming out of the gate flying on the first few sets and then dropping off on the last few in you have a specific number of sets as a target or youâd leave something in the tank early on and the last set or two would be the only ones where youâd be pushing the envelope.
Is this largely why you believe in ramping? Each set improves CNS activation a bit more on the way up to an all-out set that recruits and fatigues as many MUâs as possible as opposed to either burning out quickly and finishing off with relatively ineffective (or at least less effective) sets or leaving some in the tank early on but not really deriving any noticeable increase in CNS activation over the course of those sets?
That is EXACTLY the purpose.
Each set has two effects that can change performance of the subsequent workâŠ
Activation/potentiation: a set increase the working state of the CNS thus improving performance potential.
Fatigue (neural or muscular) which can decrease performance. The closest to your limit a set is, the more fatigue (neural) it will have.
Activation minus neural fatigue = CNS âfiring levelâ
CNS âfiring levelâ minus muscular fatigue = performance
Most people need 3 work sets to properly activate the nervous system (some will need up to 5⊠those with an inefficient CNS and others will only need 1⊠those with a cat-like CNS).
So you will reach your peak neural potential on the 4th, 5th or 6th set⊠THIS is where you should go balls out. Getting your best, most demanding set earlier than the 3rd set of an exercise will drastically reduce your results simply because your neural activation state is not optimal.
Now, you also want to avoid too much neural fatigue before that last, balls-to-the-wall set because it would impair performance.
Since going close to your limit reps with a given weight will create more neural fatigue, you want to gradually ramp up those sets.
Thanks for this, as I am still learning alot about the CNS this answers some questions I had.
One quick question though, would the CNS react the same way if you ramped up to say 3 working sets ( by this I mean say set 1) 10 reps set 2) maybe 7 or 8 set 3) 5 or 6 or something like 3x5 with 85% of 1RM give or take some, these are just random sets and reps) vs one all out set?
Thanks in advance coach. [/quote]
ALL RAMPING SETS ARE WORK SETS!!! Just because a set isnât maximal (e.g. max number of reps for that rep range) doesnât mean that itâs not a work set. IF YOU ALWAYS TRY TO LIFT WITH AS MUCH ACCELERATION AS POSSIBLE ANYTHING AT OR ABOVE 70% IS A WORK SET.
Simply ramping up is not sufficient⊠you have to always try to lift the weight as fast as you can. The early work set thus become strength-speed sets and move toward the strength spectrum at the end.
Thib,
2 quick ones for youâŠ
For deadlifts, is it acceptable to execute any set performed for greater than 1 rep as a series of singles where you briefly pause and reset between reps as opposed to doing all reps continuously?
Would thick bar pulldowns for low reps be worthwhile to include when working with someone not yet performing full pull-ups, that is, in addition to using negative pull-ups or banded pall-ups?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
View 1 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thunderstruck88 wrote:
Thib,
When it comes to performing straight sets of a given number of reps with the same weight, youâd execute a few practice sets to get a feel for the working weight and then move on to the âworkâ sets. At any given load, youâd likely end up either coming out of the gate flying on the first few sets and then dropping off on the last few in you have a specific number of sets as a target or youâd leave something in the tank early on and the last set or two would be the only ones where youâd be pushing the envelope.
Is this largely why you believe in ramping? Each set improves CNS activation a bit more on the way up to an all-out set that recruits and fatigues as many MUâs as possible as opposed to either burning out quickly and finishing off with relatively ineffective (or at least less effective) sets or leaving some in the tank early on but not really deriving any noticeable increase in CNS activation over the course of those sets?
That is EXACTLY the purpose.
Each set has two effects that can change performance of the subsequent workâŠ
Activation/potentiation: a set increase the working state of the CNS thus improving performance potential.
Fatigue (neural or muscular) which can decrease performance. The closest to your limit a set is, the more fatigue (neural) it will have.
Activation minus neural fatigue = CNS âfiring levelâ
CNS âfiring levelâ minus muscular fatigue = performance
Most people need 3 work sets to properly activate the nervous system (some will need up to 5⊠those with an inefficient CNS and others will only need 1⊠those with a cat-like CNS).
So you will reach your peak neural potential on the 4th, 5th or 6th set⊠THIS is where you should go balls out. Getting your best, most demanding set earlier than the 3rd set of an exercise will drastically reduce your results simply because your neural activation state is not optimal.
Now, you also want to avoid too much neural fatigue before that last, balls-to-the-wall set because it would impair performance.
Since going close to your limit reps with a given weight will create more neural fatigue, you want to gradually ramp up those sets.
Thanks for this, as I am still learning alot about the CNS this answers some questions I had.
One quick question though, would the CNS react the same way if you ramped up to say 3 working sets ( by this I mean say set 1) 10 reps set 2) maybe 7 or 8 set 3) 5 or 6 or something like 3x5 with 85% of 1RM give or take some, these are just random sets and reps) vs one all out set?
Thanks in advance coach.
ALL RAMPING SETS ARE WORK SETS!!! Just because a set isnât maximal (e.g. max number of reps for that rep range) doesnât mean that itâs not a work set. IF YOU ALWAYS TRY TO LIFT WITH AS MUCH ACCELERATION AS POSSIBLE ANYTHING AT OR ABOVE 70% IS A WORK SET.
Simply ramping up is not sufficient⊠you have to always try to lift the weight as fast as you can. The early work set thus become strength-speed sets and move toward the strength spectrum at the end.[/quote]
Thanks for the answer coach I appreciate it.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
pflifter wrote:
CT,
In your travels and experience, have you found certain splits to be more effective for ectomorphic individuals who would be classified as intermediate to advanced based on lifting years? I am considering tweaking my split (I have been doing a Chest/Back off Legs Shoulders/Arms off Reapeat) and am considering a more classical 1 Bodypart a week but I am concerned that the frequency will not be sufficient.
To be honest, your training split is probably the least important factor involved in progress. As long as it is not idiotic, most splits will work if you know how to train properly.
I would suggest hitting each muscle groups twice a week though.[/quote]
Thanks for the answer CT. Iâm assuming an upper/lower type split? With respect to days weight training with ectomorphs, would you say no more than 4 or 5x per week is a good rule of thumb?
Thib what do you consider a descent power hang snatch ? (% of bodyweight or of deadlift)
[quote]pflifter wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
pflifter wrote:
CT,
In your travels and experience, have you found certain splits to be more effective for ectomorphic individuals who would be classified as intermediate to advanced based on lifting years? I am considering tweaking my split (I have been doing a Chest/Back off Legs Shoulders/Arms off Reapeat) and am considering a more classical 1 Bodypart a week but I am concerned that the frequency will not be sufficient.
To be honest, your training split is probably the least important factor involved in progress. As long as it is not idiotic, most splits will work if you know how to train properly.
I would suggest hitting each muscle groups twice a week though.
Thanks for the answer CT. Iâm assuming an upper/lower type split? With respect to days weight training with ectomorphs, would you say no more than 4 or 5x per week is a good rule of thumb?
[/quote]
THE TRAINING SPLIT IS THE LEAST IMPORTANT FACTORâŠ
An upper/lower split would work
A pull/legs/push split would work
An upper/lower/whole body split would work
An so would any specialisation routine
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib what do you consider a descent power hang snatch ? (% of bodyweight or of deadlift) [/quote]
1.25 x bodyweight, or around 50% of your deadlift
if u get 100% of your vitamains and minerals based on a 2000 calorie diet
when your eating 4000 calorie diet should u get twice the vitamin and mineral intake?
[quote]im kenny wrote:
if u get 100% of your vitamains and minerals based on a 2000 calorie diet
when your eating 4000 calorie diet should u get twice the vitamin and mineral intake?[/quote]
No. You have a specific need for each vitamin and mineral. Activity level changes the dietary need of some mineral because you lose a lot in sweat. But the amount of each is an absolute, it is not relative to your daily caloric intake.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib what do you consider a descent power hang snatch ? (% of bodyweight or of deadlift)
1.25 x bodyweight, or around 50% of your deadlift [/quote]
Damn ! What would âgoodâ and âexcellentâ look like ?
Just did them for the first time in my life and managed to get 0.8 of bodyweight or 40% of deadlift for a double.
My gym doesnât have bumper plates so I canât imagine decelerating the bar with a snatch grip behind back/on the chest even with 1 x bw being safe.
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib what do you consider a descent power hang snatch ? (% of bodyweight or of deadlift)
1.25 x bodyweight, or around 50% of your deadlift
Damn ! What would âgoodâ and âexcellentâ look like ?
Just did them for the first time in my life and managed to get 0.8 of bodyweight or 40% of deadlift for a double.
My gym doesnât have bumper plates so I canât imagine decelerating the bar with a snatch grip behind back/on the chest even with 1 x bw being safe.[/quote]
Thatâs a great start. To me, decent and good are the same thing. No need to be olympic level to benefit from that lift.
Thib,
If I understand correctly ramping is when you want to lift a maximal load for a given rep range. And if you want to create more fatigue ( volume training, or supersets) straight sets would be better.
So heavy lifting 4-6 or 6-8 reps; 2-3min rest = ramping
volume training 8-10 or 10-12 reps ; 60-90s rest = straight set
Although I guess there is not that much of a clear line between both approach.
[quote]joebassin wrote:
Thib,
If I understand correctly ramping is when you want to lift a maximal load for a given rep range. And if you want to create more fatigue ( volume training, or supersets) straight sets would be better.
So heavy lifting 4-6 or 6-8 reps; 2-3min rest = ramping
volume training 8-10 or 10-12 reps ; 60-90s rest = straight set
Although I guess there is not that much of a clear line between both approach.
[/quote]
Yeeeaaaahhh⊠even with sets of higher reps you could ramp, but the effect will not be as pronounced as with lower reps. And please please please do not mention precise rest intervals. What is on a sheet of paper is only a guideline. Not an ounce of muscle has actually been built by that. The actual work you do in the gym and the set to set decisions you make (weight progression, rest intervals, adding sets, removing sets, etc.) are what will make or break your progress.
I find that there are a lot of people who can follow program, yet very few who know how to train.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joebassin wrote:
Thib,
If I understand correctly ramping is when you want to lift a maximal load for a given rep range. And if you want to create more fatigue ( volume training, or supersets) straight sets would be better.
So heavy lifting 4-6 or 6-8 reps; 2-3min rest = ramping
volume training 8-10 or 10-12 reps ; 60-90s rest = straight set
Although I guess there is not that much of a clear line between both approach.
Yeeeaaaahhh⊠even with sets of higher reps you could ramp, but the effect will not be as pronounced as with lower reps. And please please please do not mention precise rest intervals. What is on a sheet of paper is only a guideline. Not an ounce of muscle has actually been built by that. The actual work you do in the gym and the set to set decisions you make (weight progression, rest intervals, adding sets, removing sets, etc.) are what will make or break your progress.
I find that there are a lot of people who can follow program, yet very few who know how to train.[/quote]
What you mean by no precise rest interval is that different people may need different rest time. Also that rest time can be change like other parameter. Am I right??
[quote]joebassin wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joebassin wrote:
Thib,
If I understand correctly ramping is when you want to lift a maximal load for a given rep range. And if you want to create more fatigue ( volume training, or supersets) straight sets would be better.
So heavy lifting 4-6 or 6-8 reps; 2-3min rest = ramping
volume training 8-10 or 10-12 reps ; 60-90s rest = straight set
Although I guess there is not that much of a clear line between both approach.
Yeeeaaaahhh⊠even with sets of higher reps you could ramp, but the effect will not be as pronounced as with lower reps. And please please please do not mention precise rest intervals. What is on a sheet of paper is only a guideline. Not an ounce of muscle has actually been built by that. The actual work you do in the gym and the set to set decisions you make (weight progression, rest intervals, adding sets, removing sets, etc.) are what will make or break your progress.
I find that there are a lot of people who can follow program, yet very few who know how to train.
What you mean by no precise rest interval is that different people may need different rest time. Also that rest time can be change like other parameter. Am I right??
[/quote]
Iâm saying that rest intervals will vary from person to person. Heck, it will even vary during a workout. Only rest long enough so that performance is good. That might take 15 seconds or 3 minutes.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joebassin wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
joebassin wrote:
Thib,
If I understand correctly ramping is when you want to lift a maximal load for a given rep range. And if you want to create more fatigue ( volume training, or supersets) straight sets would be better.
So heavy lifting 4-6 or 6-8 reps; 2-3min rest = ramping
volume training 8-10 or 10-12 reps ; 60-90s rest = straight set
Although I guess there is not that much of a clear line between both approach.
Yeeeaaaahhh⊠even with sets of higher reps you could ramp, but the effect will not be as pronounced as with lower reps. And please please please do not mention precise rest intervals. What is on a sheet of paper is only a guideline. Not an ounce of muscle has actually been built by that. The actual work you do in the gym and the set to set decisions you make (weight progression, rest intervals, adding sets, removing sets, etc.) are what will make or break your progress.
I find that there are a lot of people who can follow program, yet very few who know how to train.
What you mean by no precise rest interval is that different people may need different rest time. Also that rest time can be change like other parameter. Am I right??
Iâm saying that rest intervals will vary from person to person. Heck, it will even vary during a workout. Only rest long enough so that performance is good. That might take 15 seconds or 3 minutes.[/quote]
Thib, when training for acceleration, say 6x3@80%, I can take very little rest periods (even less than a minute), but wonât the speed be compromised by rest less than 1 minute ? As you said, itâs individual, but Iâm asking about general guideline : how much does it take for CNS to recover from this type of set to perform at the highest speed again ? (theoretically)
And a quick side question:
Recently you have recommended this for motor learning :
"Week 1: use 75% of your max for sets of 3 reps⊠do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 2: use 80% of your max for sets of 2 reps ⊠do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 3: use 85% of your max for sets of 1 rep ⊠do as many sets as you can in 15 minutes
Week 4: work up to a maximum lift "
Is this a better way to do motor learning than you previously recommended in âBeast Buildingâ (80%x3; 85%x2; 90%x1) ?