[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?[/quote]
Yes, over the toes
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?
Yes, over the toes[/quote]
Thanks !
May I also ask what bar placement do you recommend for powerlifting deadlift (posterior chain emphasis) ?
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?
Yes, over the toes
Thanks !
May I also ask what bar placement do you recommend for powerlifting deadlift (posterior chain emphasis) ?[/quote]
Read this, it will help you understand how to do the powerlifting deadlift.
The dead zone by Dave Tate: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?
Yes, over the toes
Thanks !
May I also ask what bar placement do you recommend for powerlifting deadlift (posterior chain emphasis) ?
Read this, it will help you understand how to do the powerlifting deadlift.
The dead zone by Dave Tate: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
[/quote]
Thanks, I’ve read this article several times.
Could you explain why bar should be over toes in snatch/clean grip DL although I’m not going to do an Oly lift with it ? I thought this position is to the most advantage for further phases of an Oly lift (2nd,3rd pull etc.), but not very good for max power in the first pull itself ?
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?
Yes, over the toes
Thanks !
May I also ask what bar placement do you recommend for powerlifting deadlift (posterior chain emphasis) ?
Read this, it will help you understand how to do the powerlifting deadlift.
The dead zone by Dave Tate: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
Thanks, I’ve read this article several times.
Could you explain why bar should be over toes in snatch/clean grip DL although I’m not going to do an Oly lift with it ? I thought this position is to the most advantage for further phases of an Oly lift (2nd,3rd pull etc.), but not very good for max power in the first pull itself ?
[/quote]
The goal of the first pull in the olympic lift is only to bring the bar to the beginning of the second pull phase with as little wasted effort as possible and while keeping an optimal biomechanical position.
By having the bar too far forward it is tougher to bring it close to the body for that second pull.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, should the bar be over the toes when doing snatch/clean grip deadlifts, or is this the case only if I’m actually going to snatch/clean it ?
Yes, over the toes
Thanks !
May I also ask what bar placement do you recommend for powerlifting deadlift (posterior chain emphasis) ?
Read this, it will help you understand how to do the powerlifting deadlift.
The dead zone by Dave Tate: Strength Training, Bodybuilding & Online Supplement Store - T NATION
Thanks, I’ve read this article several times.
Could you explain why bar should be over toes in snatch/clean grip DL although I’m not going to do an Oly lift with it ? I thought this position is to the most advantage for further phases of an Oly lift (2nd,3rd pull etc.), but not very good for max power in the first pull itself ?
The goal of the first pull in the olympic lift is only to bring the bar to the beginning of the second pull phase with as little wasted effort as possible and while keeping an optimal biomechanical position.
By having the bar too far forward it is tougher to bring it close to the body for that second pull.
[/quote]
Excuse me for not making myself clear : I actually meant why not place it closer (mid foot level) ?
(By the way - where to place it in duck stance deadlifts considering that knees are out of the way?)
You talked about getting the nervous system ready for the fast twitch fibers to fire more efficiently and build MORE muscle. So until the I Bodybuilder program comes out I am doing a Chad W program, lifting as fast as possible and training more frequently, while only doing about 25-30 REPS per muscle group each workout. Hitting each bodypart 2-3 times a week.
Im curious if it would be better to do a dynamic lift or a pause partial rep (like the article on legs you wrote on doing the quarter box squats) before I work ANY muscle group. for examplke chest… I do floor presses for 3 reps of 3. The onto my regular chest exercise and getting to 25-30 reps. so on and so forth for back and legs. What do you think?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Mondy wrote:
Thibs,
My deadlift has been stuck at the same weight for the past two to three months. During this period, I did a lot of snatch grip deadlifts, increasing my initial snatch grip dl weight from 207 to 247 for 3 total cluster reps on a 4 inch platform. My rackpull went from 315 to 355. Yet when I maxed out last week, my 1 rm remained the same! Do I need to do more regular DLs to re-establish the motor recruitment pattern and efficiency?
Yes, include a motor learning day once a week.
Week 1: use 75% of your max for sets of 3 reps… do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 2: use 80% of your max for sets of 2 reps … do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 3: use 85% of your max for sets of 1 rep … do as many sets as you can in 15 minutes
Week 4: work up to a maximum lift[/quote]
What rest periods should we be shooting for between sets?
Thib,
What are your thoughts on strategic deconditioning as used by HST vs deloading, which is more commonly used by lifters? I’m getting to the point were I want/need to introduce a planned reduction in workload when necessary and I’m unsure as to which method is best.
Take care.
(Sorry for the double post, I cant work this forum yet)
Just wanted to say thanks for all of the great info, Thib!
Thib,
I have a bunch of stuff for grip training in my garage, so normally I do brief grip training sessions at a separate time from the regular training I do at my gym. Is there anything wrong with this approach, or is it fine so long as these separate sessions are not done the day before a deadlift day or heavy horizontal or vertical pulling day?
CT,
When using contrast training, I believe you said that it is best to do explosive lifting before heavy lifting in order to potentiate the CNS without incurring excessive fatigue prior to the 2nd movement.
But if using something like broad or vertical jumps paired with deadlifts and squats, respectively, would you perform a heavy (but not max effort) lift prior to the jumps instead?
CT
Currently, about 1/2 hour or so after my training sessions (which are usually mid afternoon) I seem to ‘crash’ badly and just feel incredibly sleepy, I fight it off as if I do sleep it ruins quality of sleep that night. I went for an easy swim and stretch today and it still happened afterwards so it doesn’t seem to be just fatigue from working hard. Is this a sign of an underlying issue I’m missing? I did think CNS burnout as I have been keeping reps mostly sub-6 all summer but my numbers are increasing and I took a big deload last week.
I have also hit a weight plateau at about 190 lbs (have been told I need more weight for rugby), I have had problems getting past this weight in the past, more food led to fat gain, I am focusing on increasing lifts this time and letting weight take care of itself, sensible approach? Thanks.
[quote]AtleticoMadrid wrote:
CT,
When using contrast training, I believe you said that it is best to do explosive lifting before heavy lifting in order to potentiate the CNS without incurring excessive fatigue prior to the 2nd movement.
But if using something like broad or vertical jumps paired with deadlifts and squats, respectively, would you perform a heavy (but not max effort) lift prior to the jumps instead?[/quote]
That might trick the nervous system in giving your a better jumping performance, but I do not think that it will mean a better training effect. Whereas the fact of lifting more weight (because of the explosive movement will) is sure to increase the training effect due to the greater external load handled.
[quote]ThorsHammer wrote:
Thib,
I have a bunch of stuff for grip training in my garage, so normally I do brief grip training sessions at a separate time from the regular training I do at my gym. Is there anything wrong with this approach, or is it fine so long as these separate sessions are not done the day before a deadlift day or heavy horizontal or vertical pulling day?
[/quote]
It’s perfectly fine. Grip work is one of those things (with abs training) where you really can’t cause a lot of microtrauma to the muscles, so a higher frequency of practice is perfectly fine.
[quote]hotdog.350 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Mondy wrote:
Thibs,
My deadlift has been stuck at the same weight for the past two to three months. During this period, I did a lot of snatch grip deadlifts, increasing my initial snatch grip dl weight from 207 to 247 for 3 total cluster reps on a 4 inch platform. My rackpull went from 315 to 355. Yet when I maxed out last week, my 1 rm remained the same! Do I need to do more regular DLs to re-establish the motor recruitment pattern and efficiency?
Yes, include a motor learning day once a week.
Week 1: use 75% of your max for sets of 3 reps… do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 2: use 80% of your max for sets of 2 reps … do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 3: use 85% of your max for sets of 1 rep … do as many sets as you can in 15 minutes
Week 4: work up to a maximum lift
What rest periods should we be shooting for between sets?[/quote]
That is the point… there is no specific rest intervals. You try to complete as many good reps as you can in the allocated time frame. Rest only long enough so that performance in the next set is not negatively affected.
Hi, I have thoroughly studied your book “Theory and application of modern strength and power methods” (Great material I must mention.) and created a workout plan for myself based on the information on that book.I wonder if it’s any good, here’s the link in case the attached image doesn’t open: http://www.speedyshare.com/388301579.html
My goal is mass, but I also have some muscle imbalances from previous training years which I’m trying to address.The usual problems: shoulders front, weak hamstrings compared to quads, lagging upper pecs; lower- and middle traps; posterior and lateral delts, weak serratus anterior and external rotators.Mobility is ok in all joints.I picked the 3 best methods for hypertrophy from the training methods table in the book and arranged them on 3 separate days like in the sample workout plan there.
Thib, I was reading Sheiko’s book and one thing I refuse to understand is how the hell one should get stronger by lifting predominantly in the 80% range with only 3 reps per set. Sure, the volume is big, but all the sets are done at half the reps that could be done.
For example, here is a typical Sheiko week for bench press:
Mon 70%x2x3, 80%x6x3
Wed 70%x2x3, 80%x2x3, 85%x2x2, 80%x2x3
Fri 70%x2x3, 80%x7x3
(sets x reps)
And this is actually one of the toughest weeks! Many weeks have 80% only for few sets and a lot of 70-75% work. A few peaking weeks may include some 90% work but only for 1 rep and 2-3 sets.
And then somehow magically you’re supposed to get stronger in 1RM.
Surely, this system works (for some), but I don’t get the theory behind this. Aren’t you supposed to lift heavy and intensely to get stronger ?
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Thib, I was reading Sheiko’s book and one thing I refuse to understand is how the hell one should get stronger by lifting predominantly in the 80% range with only 3 reps per set. Sure, the volume is big, but all the sets are done at half the reps that could be done.
For example, here is a typical Sheiko week for bench press:
Mon 70%x2x3, 80%x6x3
Wed 70%x2x3, 80%x2x3, 85%x2x2, 80%x2x3
Fri 70%x2x3, 80%x7x3
(sets x reps)
And this is actually one of the toughest weeks! Many weeks have 80% only for few sets and a lot of 70-75% work. A few peaking weeks may include some 90% work but only for 1 rep and 2-3 sets.
And then somehow magically you’re supposed to get stronger in 1RM.
Surely, this system works (for some), but I don’t get the theory behind this. Aren’t you supposed to lift heavy and intensely to get stronger ?
[/quote]
-
Any weight of 80% or more has transfer on to maximal lifting.
-
Force = mass x acceleration… even if you are not lifting maximum weights (heavy mass) you can produce near maximum force by trying the lift the weight as fast as possible (high acceleration). This is why Westside powerlifters do 50% of their work on the bench and squat with 45-55% of their maximum, for sets of 2-3 explosive reps. It is also why the average training weight of elite olympic lifters is around 75%.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Thib, I was reading Sheiko’s book and one thing I refuse to understand is how the hell one should get stronger by lifting predominantly in the 80% range with only 3 reps per set. Sure, the volume is big, but all the sets are done at half the reps that could be done.
For example, here is a typical Sheiko week for bench press:
Mon 70%x2x3, 80%x6x3
Wed 70%x2x3, 80%x2x3, 85%x2x2, 80%x2x3
Fri 70%x2x3, 80%x7x3
(sets x reps)
And this is actually one of the toughest weeks! Many weeks have 80% only for few sets and a lot of 70-75% work. A few peaking weeks may include some 90% work but only for 1 rep and 2-3 sets.
And then somehow magically you’re supposed to get stronger in 1RM.
Surely, this system works (for some), but I don’t get the theory behind this. Aren’t you supposed to lift heavy and intensely to get stronger ?
-
Any weight of 80% or more has transfer on to maximal lifting.
-
Force = mass x acceleration… even if you are not lifting maximum weights (heavy mass) you can produce near maximum force by trying the lift the weight as fast as possible (high acceleration). This is why Westside powerlifters do 50% of their work on the bench and squat with 45-55% of their maximum, for sets of 2-3 explosive reps. It is also why the average training weight of elite olympic lifters is around 75%.[/quote]
Thanks Thib.
Would you personally do a lot of submaximal 80% work focusing on acceleration if you were looking to improve one lift ?