[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
C. Dips (bodyweight only) 2 x max reps
Do you steel acknowledge the use of such “classical” potentially high rep finishers ?
May I ask what is the reasoning behind this ? Is it good for strength or for some extra hypertrophy only ?[/quote]
It was just an example; not an actual workout. But yeah, sometimes I like to include a max rep exercise.
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
C. Dips (bodyweight only) 2 x max reps
Do you steel acknowledge the use of such “classical” potentially high rep finishers ?
May I ask what is the reasoning behind this ? Is it good for strength or for some extra hypertrophy only ?
It was just an example; not an actual workout. But yeah, sometimes I like to include a max rep exercise.[/quote]
Thib,
If such workout, or the one you used in I,BB trailer is used, what should the minimal lay-off from pressing be before repeating the same or similarly stressful workout for pressing?
Is it once a week only, or 72 hours will be sufficient ? (considering that I don’t want to do explosive/isometric/partials/contrasts workout in between, just rest as much as required and repeat regular full-motion heavy pressing)
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
fighter1157 wrote:
Coach Thibaudeau,
I asked you before, what periodization scheme is best for bodybuilding purposes and you answered “no periodization”.
Do bodybuilders need some kind of a “deload”? Or do your bodybuilding clients hop from a program to another without some kind of a resting period in between programs?
I sometimes use deloads; when they are truly needed. But I find that 90% of the people you see hitting the gym (and sadly that includes many TMUSCLE readers) do not train anywhere near hard enough to actually require a deload.[/quote]
Despite many people not working hard enough, do you find that many people could use a deload due to too high frequency w/o enough recovery?
[quote]MAF14 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
fighter1157 wrote:
Coach Thibaudeau,
I asked you before, what periodization scheme is best for bodybuilding purposes and you answered “no periodization”.
Do bodybuilders need some kind of a “deload”? Or do your bodybuilding clients hop from a program to another without some kind of a resting period in between programs?
I sometimes use deloads; when they are truly needed. But I find that 90% of the people you see hitting the gym (and sadly that includes many TMUSCLE readers) do not train anywhere near hard enough to actually require a deload.
Despite many people not working hard enough, do you find that many people could use a deload due to too high frequency w/o enough recovery?
[/quote]
If I gently slap you on the wrist will it cause damage? No, not a chance! What if I slap you gently 100 times? Nope, not injured either. Will you need to wear a cast to rest your arm if I gently slap you 100 times? NO! You could be training a twice a day, every day… but if you don’t train hard on any of those times you will not create a need to deload.
[quote]Thy. wrote:
If such workout, or the one you used in I,BB trailer is used, what should the minimal lay-off from pressing be before repeating the same or similarly stressful workout for pressing? [/quote]
You have no idea what a I, BODYBUILDER workout looks like. You certainly cannot extrapolate what the workout looks like from watching that video! Not to mention that one week is 5 workouts, so looking at one workout in isolation is not enough info.
The example I gave above is just an example, not an actual workout.
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Is it once a week only, or 72 hours will be sufficient ? (considering that I don’t want to do explosive/isometric/partials/contrasts workout in between, just rest as much as required and repeat regular full-motion heavy pressing) [/quote]
IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW THE REST OF THE WEEK LOOKS LIKE… YOU CANNOT LOOK AT ONE WORKOUT IN ISOLATION. CNS FATIGUE IS GENERAL, HORMONAL FATIGUE IS GENERAL TOO.
So if you have a hard legs then a hard pulling workout after the pressing workout you will need more recovery time then if you where to do an easy arms workout.
Thib,
While pulldowns are not a massive help in working up to performing pull-ups or increasing pull-up performance, can strict thick-bar pulldowns for low reps and possibly thick-bar pulldown iso-holds at the mid-point of the exercise be of some use in working up to pull-ups and chin-ups?
Thib,
(I tried to edit/shorten this, but if it is still too much, please disregard.)
Approximately how long is muscle protein synthesis elevated above baseline after the typical lifting session. Does this rise and fall effect optimal training frequency for a given muscle?
Outside of specialization, what is usually the “best” of the rest for size and strength, low/medium volume and high frequency or high volume and lower frequency per muscle? Would a high-frequency TBT approach for beginners followed by either rotation of specialization phases or a “traditional” higher volume-lower frequency (per muscle) approach be best?
Common statements- “More frequent training + recovery = faster size and strength gains” and “You can deliver a large growth stimulus infrequently or smaller stimuli more frequently.” Current research seems to favor the former, but the latter has worked for many over time. Can the latter approach still be highly effective despite many “evidence-based” coaches saying it is an inferior method?
Lastly, coaches quoting research say volume and intensity must be equal when comparing low frequency approaches to high frequency ones, and when they are, high frequency is superior. But isn’t the purpose of lower frequency (per muscle) to allow more volume than high frequency (more of a logistics thing)?
[quote]Jack Slater wrote:
Thib,
(I tried to edit/shorten this, but if it is still too much, please disregard.)
Approximately how long is muscle protein synthesis elevated above baseline after the typical lifting session. Does this rise and fall effect optimal training frequency for a given muscle? [/quote]
Obviously it depends on the severity of the training stimulus, but in general protein uptake and synthesis is elevated up to 24 hours post-training.
No it does not affect training frequency because neural and hormonal recovery also comes into play and normally take longer to come back up.
[quote]Jack Slater wrote:
Outside of specialization, what is usually the “best” of the rest for size and strength, low/medium volume and high frequency or high volume and lower frequency per muscle? Would a high-frequency TBT approach for beginners followed by either rotation of specialization phases or a “traditional” higher volume-lower frequency (per muscle) approach be best? [/quote]
FROM EXPERIENCE, which means that other’s experience may vary, hitting a muscle intensely with a medium volume (with different approaches both times) twice a week is optimal for a combination of size and strength, outside of spec work.
[quote]Jack Slater wrote:
Common statements- “More frequent training + recovery = faster size and strength gains” [/quote]
Generally true. I often say that the more you train without exceeding your (physical, hormonal and neurological) capacity to recover, the faster you’ll progress.
Most people get screwed by incomplete neurological or hormonal recover more than anything else.
[quote]Jack Slater wrote:
and “You can deliver a large growth stimulus infrequently or smaller stimuli more frequently.” Current research seems to favor the former, but the latter has worked for many over time. Can the latter approach still be highly effective despite many “evidence-based” coaches saying it is an inferior method? [/quote]
The thing is that there is what I would call a stimulation threshold. This means that the training stress has to reach a certain level to trigger progress. So an infrequent stimulus that never reaches the stimulation threshold will not be effective in stimulating growth. But a stimulus that is too infrequent will also not lead to optimal gains because of involution (losing the adaptations if the time between stimulations is too long).
[quote]Jack Slater wrote:
Lastly, coaches quoting research say volume and intensity must be equal when comparing low frequency approaches to high frequency ones, and when they are, high frequency is superior. But isn’t the purpose of lower frequency (per muscle) to allow more volume than high frequency (more of a logistics thing)? [/quote]
Not necessarily more volume, but rather a greater stimulus. For example, today I trained a bodybuilder… the whole workout had 12 sets and none exceeded 5 reps; afterward he stayed on the floor for half an hour… not that much volume but the pace of the workout and the intensity level caused a giant stimulus.
Thib,
Thanks again for the reply. I know that appreciation is not much of a reward, but I am beyond appreciative that you always take some time out from your busy schedule to share some insight. It always speaks volumes to see someone who’s achieved what you have show such willingness to help teach so many out here in the online world. Much obliged.
CT,
I have just completed your 8-week OVT program, what program do you suggest I follow it up with?
Thib,
While somewhat basic, is it a bad idea to start of an “biceps/triceps” day training session with heavy sets of choices from the following lists
Triceps: 3 or 4-board presses, pin presses(provided the pins are not set too low for max triceps stress), or OH lock-outs off of pins (in addition to sometimes using choices like close-grip bench press, 1 and 1/4 rep (top) close-grip incline press, curl-grip/reverse grip bench press, and dips)
Biceps: close-grip chin-ups
and then finish up with 1 or 2 isolation exercise choices that are a bit more specialized in focus
Triceps examples: OH rope extensions, decline triceps extensions, elbows-out extensions, etc.
Biceps: incline curls, reverse curls, hammer curls, etc.
While nothing particularly fancy, would this type of setup likely be effective due to exercise selection and trying to avoid redundancy and too much overlap between exercises?
Thibs,
My deadlift has been stuck at the same weight for the past two to three months. During this period, I did a lot of snatch grip deadlifts, increasing my initial snatch grip dl weight from 207 to 247 for 3 total cluster reps on a 4 inch platform. My rackpull went from 315 to 355. Yet when I maxed out last week, my 1 rm remained the same! Do I need to do more regular DLs to re-establish the motor recruitment pattern and efficiency?
Coach,
Hope you’re well.
I recently read your Beast Building article. For the second phase could a t-bar or barbell row held at peak contraction be used in place of the chest supported db row isometric hold? Could these same exercises be used for the limit strength and speed strength portions also?
Thanks in advance for the help and best wishes as always,
James
Thib,
I made a massive mistake in trying to read your mind and use the I,Bodybuilder short video as an interpretation of what to do. I’ve read many posts here and tried to formulate a plan. I guess I just want you to bash this attempt
I have tried alternate different stimulations each week
week 1
static above max holds for CNS stimulation on an exercise and then followed by 5x5 on a modification of that exercise.
week 2
waves for CNS stim on an exercise and then followed by 5x5 on a modification of that exercise.
week 3
mechanical drop sets - every set, every excercise
Also I want to note that I can only lift twice a week due to schedule so my sessions last 2 hours and usually look like session1 = chest/back/arms/calves session2 = legs/shoulders/arms calves
I am a former local competitive powerlifter so the foundation is there.
I think you feel twice a week is just not enough.
Mike
[quote]baldadonis2002 wrote:
T
Also I want to note that I can only lift twice a week due to schedule so my sessions last 2 hours and usually look like session1 = chest/back/arms/calves session2 = legs/shoulders/arms calves
I am a former local competitive powerlifter so the foundation is there.
I think you feel twice a week is just not enough.
Mike[/quote]
Yep, you really can’t even get remotely close to the I, BB system training twice a week. Right off the bat it goes against two of the most important principles of the system:
Plus, the arrangement of training techniques isn’t even remotely close to what the actual program looks like. Let me tell you, when I experimented with the program design, even slight deviations led to CNS overstress and put me back 2-3 days. So if you try to wing it, you can forget about progressing.
[quote]Mondy wrote:
Thibs,
My deadlift has been stuck at the same weight for the past two to three months. During this period, I did a lot of snatch grip deadlifts, increasing my initial snatch grip dl weight from 207 to 247 for 3 total cluster reps on a 4 inch platform. My rackpull went from 315 to 355. Yet when I maxed out last week, my 1 rm remained the same! Do I need to do more regular DLs to re-establish the motor recruitment pattern and efficiency?[/quote]
Yes, include a motor learning day once a week.
Week 1: use 75% of your max for sets of 3 reps… do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 2: use 80% of your max for sets of 2 reps … do as many sets as you can in 20 minutes
Week 3: use 85% of your max for sets of 1 rep … do as many sets as you can in 15 minutes
Week 4: work up to a maximum lift
[quote]Thunderstruck88 wrote:
Thib,
While somewhat basic, is it a bad idea to start of an “biceps/triceps” day training session with heavy sets of choices from the following lists
Triceps: 3 or 4-board presses, pin presses(provided the pins are not set too low for max triceps stress), or OH lock-outs off of pins (in addition to sometimes using choices like close-grip bench press, 1 and 1/4 rep (top) close-grip incline press, curl-grip/reverse grip bench press, and dips)
Biceps: close-grip chin-ups
and then finish up with 1 or 2 isolation exercise choices that are a bit more specialized in focus
Triceps examples: OH rope extensions, decline triceps extensions, elbows-out extensions, etc.
Biceps: incline curls, reverse curls, hammer curls, etc.
While nothing particularly fancy, would this type of setup likely be effective due to exercise selection and trying to avoid redundancy and too much overlap between exercises?
[/quote]
Actually I often start a workout by performing 2 work sets of 3 cluster reps on a max overload movement, to activate the nervous system. Explosive lifts can be used for the same purpose.
Christian,
i read in one of your threads that when an individual comes off the protocol or stops taking the protocol, it is hard to train at the same level as when one is on the protocol. And, you had mentioned that one will just have eto just train differently. Could you elaborate or give some examples of some of the types of adjustments or different approaches one would have to take or make when off the protocol? Generally speaking ofcourse, i know eevery individual is different.
thanks
There’s been a lot of mention of spec training. Is there any difference as to how you would approach specializing on legs than you would other body parts like back and chest? I ask this because I would like to specialize on my legs for awhile but am worried 3days/week for legs is a bit excessive (at least I think it would be for me) seeing as how it’s a lot of muscle and you’re loading the spine so often throughout the week. Or should I focus on maybe hammies and glutes at first instead of the entire lower body at once?
I’m not really referring to your I,BODYBUILDER program 'cause I know that’s locked up for now. I was just wondering about your general approach in specializing legs vs. other body parts.
[quote]mav31 wrote:
Christian,
i read in one of your threads that when an individual comes off the protocol or stops taking the protocol, it is hard to train at the same level as when one is on the protocol. And, you had mentioned that one will just have eto just train differently. Could you elaborate or give some examples of some of the types of adjustments or different approaches one would have to take or make when off the protocol? Generally speaking ofcourse, i know eevery individual is different.
thanks [/quote]
Can’t do that. How can I tell you the adjustments to make to the program while I didn’t actually reveal the program yet?!