Questions About Training

Training
821

[quote]RAGDE wrote:
Mr. Thibaudeau,

My question is regarding the CNS. I am currently using a standard linier progression program but am having trouble with the back squat several inches above parallel and halfway through the ROM on my bench (power lifting style). I believe I am not â??explodingâ?? out of the hole on my lifts.

Would one be able to use accommodating resistance (chains) on warm up sets only (2-3 reps/set) to prime the CNS for the working sets (3x5 or 5x5) without fatiguing the CNS too much, providing the squat and bench were only done 2 day a week with at least 3 days rest in between?

If so, should the chains be left on for the working sets as well?

If it helps, current lifts, SQ 290x5, DL 405x4, OHP 165x5, Bench 285x2, Dips BW+100lbs for 2x8, 30yoa and bodyweight at 180lbs. I will also be using the peri-workout protocol that you are currently recommending.

Thank you for your time.

[/quote]

My training partner had the exact same problem on his squat. We used three strategies to solve the problem:

He squatted twice a week. We rotated activation means on both days.

On day 1 we used bands (not chains) for activation purpose before the heavy squat. Light bar weight (40-50%) and added band resistance for 4-5 sets of 2 reps, then did the squat.

On the second squat day we used partial squats starting from the pins slightly above the weak point (there is a 15 degrees transfer so you don’t actually need to start at the weak point) working up to a max triple, then he did the squat.

And we added a lot of low-back and glutes assistance work.

He has been stuck at 385 on his squat for 4 weeks; after two weeks of the above strategy he did 415.

822

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
DaFreak wrote:
totti13 wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
totti13 wrote:
you train in oly shoes but i suppose you dont use them for dl variations?

thanks

Yes I use them.

dont you find it hard to keep your weight on heels?

Not at all. I lifted in them for 5 years as an olympic lifter; which meant doing cleans, snatches, deadlifts and high pulls in them every day of the week.

Oups, replied with the wrong account!
[/quote]

haha, thanks

823

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Reg Dunlop wrote:
Thib,

In terms of the CNS-intensive hierarchy, where would single-leg work and sled pulls and pushes fit in? As far as the latter are concerned, would the relative stress be dependent upon the loading used, and if so, where would the heaviest loading for these fit in on the aforementioned hierarchy?

You can’t really put sled work in the same category as single leg work, or as in any other lifting exercises. Why? Because there is no real eccentric phase during the sled pulls/pushes.

Eccentrics not only cause a lot of muscle damage but they also have a different motor pattern than concentric actions. AND eccentric actions potentiate the subsequent concentric action.

[/quote]

Thib,

I think my confusion stemmed from this excerpt from a past Mike Boyle article “Lessons In CNS Intensive Training.”

From the article:

"Jason felt that he could hit each upper body pattern twice per week but needed to decrease the volume of lower body work. As is always the case, I wanted to argue my point but resisted the temptation and continued to listen. As I listened and thought about it, I slowly began to agree.

What I’d failed to factor in was all the “other” CNS intensive lower body training my athletes perform:

Olympic Lifts
Squats
One-Leg Squats
Deadlift Variations

These were all exercises in the weightroom that tax the CNS to some degree. Now let’s make a list of the other stuff that would be considered CNS intensive:

Sprints
Plyometric Drills
Sled Pulls and Pushes
Interval Conditioning

What do you notice now? What I noticed was that Jason was right. The upper body didn’t get near the CNS stress that the lower body got."

Single-leg squats and sled pulls and pushes appeared on his lists, and I’d never really thought of either as being particularly stressful on the CNS, which is what left me somewhat confused. That was what prompted me to ask my previous question about where they’d fit in on a scale of relative stress on the nervous system. I just wanted to be sure that I wasn’t including various elements in a program without properly factoring in the impact on recovery when viewed along with all other training.

In any event, I apologize if my original question was a silly one and as always thank you for your help.

824

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Eazy wrote:
Coach, i put together something i wanted to give a go for the next 4 weeks. Using a whole body

approach, with the exercise selections as you’ve outlined in The Training Strategy Handbook, it

looks like the following…

MON: 84% 1RM Sets: 6 Reps: 3 Rest: 50s (Each Week Raising the 1RM% by 2% all three days)
WED: 80% 1RM Sets: 5 Reps: 5 Rest: 60s
Fri: 78% 1RM Sets: 4 Reps: 6 Rest: 70s

I’m just looking to see from you if this would be a decent approach towards size and strength?

Anything pointing me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

The rep schemes look fine.

The percentages are idiotic… why 84% (and no 85%)… why 78% (and not 80% which is dumb since it gives you two days at 80%).?

I would personally prefer more drastic variations in the load/intensity… recruitment-wise and training effect-wise there is little, if any difference between 84, 80 and 78%. You are just giving yourself an illusion of precision and science by using such minute and precise-looking percentages.

I don’t even like using percentages EXCEPT when doing accelerative/high speed work. With heavy lifting, your lifting capacity varies so much from day to day that using percentages can lead to screwy workouts.

For example let’s say that you are supposed to do 6 x 3 with 90%… on a regular day (feeling fine) the load and reps will be adequate. But on a day where you are super tired, mentaly preoccupied or not fully recovered that 90% of your max might really be 100+% of your max for that day.

Let me illustrate…

We’ll say that your max on the squat is 450lbs… 90% of that is 405. When you are feeling fine 405 for 6 sets of 3 will be adequate; hard but doable.

Now, let’s say that today you are dead tired from not sleeping much last night and your legs are heavy from playing basketball this morning. Not to mention that because of a busy schedule you were not able to eat much and are stressed because of a big exam coming up tomorrow. Do you think that you would be able to squat that 450lbs max of yours? Not likely… in fact chances are that squatting 400lbs for a max rep would be a challenge. So do you really think that you’d be able to do 400 for 6 sets of 3? Not a chance!

The opposite could also happen: you might really be in the zone today and 405 for 6 sets of 3 might actually be too easy.

See, percentages are a DECENT STARTING POINT. But you actually have to adjust the weight according to your capacities on that day. How do you do that? Well, you must have an idea of what you want to accomplish with that workout.

Arguably with 90% loads you want to maximize strength development. So you should look for the maximum amount of weight you can do for the prescribed number of reps. THIS MEANS RAMPING UP THE WEIGHT, not doing straight sets. Straights sets are dumb when doing heavy lifting anyway. So if you are to do 6 sets of 3 you ramp up the weight each set until you reach the max weight you can handle on that day for 3 reps. When you reach the max you can do, STOP THE EXERCISE… YOU ONLY DO ONE SET OF YOUR MAX WEIGHT.

So the 6 x 3 might actually look like this:

Set 1: 350lbs x 3
Set 2: 370lbs x 3
Set 3: 390lbs x 3
Set 4: 400lbs x 3
Set 5: 410lbs x 3
Set 6: 415lbs x 3

Heck, you might even have to add a seventh set if the sixth one was not maximal OR you might have to do only 5 sets if the fifth one was maximal. This is micro autoregulation.

Now, with sets of 70% you might use straight sets because this is working on the top-end speed-strength (Soviet lifters did their speed work with 70% of maximum, not 50%)… when working on top-end speed-strength you need to use the BIGGEST WEIGHT THAT YOU CAN STILL ACCELERATE. So that might need some ramping up too.

To get back to your scheme I would personally use this set-up:

DAY 1 - Strength (you can use 90% as A BROAD GUIDELINE) ramping up to the max weight you can do for 3 reps
DAY 2- Top-end speed work (you can use 70% as A BROAD GUIDELINE) ramping up to the max weight you can still accelerate
DAY 3 - Top-end hypertrophy work… (you can use 80% as a BROAD GUIDELINE) ramping up to the max weight you can do for 5-6 reps

Other than the fact that I’m not a huge fan of whole body training for strength and size, this would look fine.
[/quote]

Thib, I was wondering if several straight sets are good idea in some cases, e.g. :

you work up to 1RM of the day, the weight was not VERY challenging, but you’re 100% sure that you won’t lift more weight. So you might use the same weight or lower a bit (-2.5 kg for smaller lifts, -5-10kg for big lifts) and do 3-5 more singles just to get some more volume ?

825

Hey CT, quick question…I saw you make mention of not being a fan of suitcase carries.
I always thought of them as a good core/conditioning exercise…care to elaborate?
Thanks

826

CT

I have read you’re not as concerned about workouts running up to or around the 75 minute mark. I have also read Poliquin and others talk about the hormonal changes (increased cortisol in particular) leading towards catabolism after about 50 minutes of training. Could you explain your reasoning behind your opinion?

Secondly, I am training legs twice every 6 days currently. Once with 3-5 reps (4 minutes rest) and 12 sets and then with 8-10 reps and 16 sets (2 minutes rest), is this too much volume? (Ignore if this is not enough info). I am aware there are usually general guidelines for sets per session per muscle group but do you split the quads and hams or just count legs as one muscle group? Thanks.

827

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Loui.s wrote:
Hey CT,

Two questions for you:

  1. When specializing a muscle group (let’s use chest as an example) – if it’s a really bad part, can one focus on developing each individual aspect at a time over the course of a couple of weeks?

Example (taken from HSS-100):

Mon: Chest (upper) <— instead of thickness
Tues: Quads/Hamstrings/Calves (low volume)
Wed: Chest (upper) <— instead of width
Thurs: Off
Fri: Chest (upper)
Sat: Back/Shoulders/Biceps/Triceps
Sun: Off

Can one focus on strength in a single movement first (like the DB/BB Bench Press) as well?

  1. Recently, I’ve taken on a job where I am working 12 hour days (7-7). I am off on Sunday and I work 6 hours on Sat. I remember reading a post where you hardly trained during a period in your life due to work – what would you recommend for someone who wants to keep/possibly gain (strength/size) during a time like this? It’s a desk job, by the way.

Thank you very much.

  1. More info on spec work will be given when the I, BODYBUILDER program comes out. But yes, you can specialize on one lift.

  2. I had to almost stop training because of long hours, but I didn’t maintain my strength or size. I wish that I could give you a way to maintain all that with almost no training, but the fact remains that to gain strength and size you do need a certain volume, frequency, and intensity of work.

From my experience you need a minimum of 3 good workouts a week to progress.
[/quote]

Thibs,

Thibs, I need you to read this:

So far, I was able to get two work outs in with the crazy hours. I am doing a very low carb diet (except for greens) and I eat some fruit before my workout. Nothing is planned other than having fruit before the workout.

Right now, due to time, it would be very dumb for me to get into a serious training routine. What I am basically doing is just having some fun when I go, trying to lift heavy, try some exercises that I haven’t done, et cetera. The past two workouts have been about 40-45 minutes…

Now here is the crazy part: I’ve lost some fat and am gaining/maintaining strength.

What do you think is up with that? Is it because it’s fairly recent or something? I am not even getting adequate sleep. Will I eventually burn out? This is a little crazy to me and I would need an expert opinion.

Thank you very much.

828

Thib,

Do you know of any ways to effectively mix thick bars and regular bars (either by using the thick bars in a warm-up or by alternating working sets) for potentiating the CNS and making the sets with the regular bars more productive?

And, in general, is thick bar work most productive for training the arms (especially the biceps) and possibly the shoulders?

829

[quote]PodolskiPower wrote:
Thib,

Do you know of any ways to effectively mix thick bars and regular bars (either by using the thick bars in a warm-up or by alternating working sets) for potentiating the CNS and making the sets with the regular bars more productive?

And, in general, is thick bar work most productive for training the arms (especially the biceps) and possibly the shoulders?[/quote]

To be honest, if you have access to a thick bar I would use it most of the time on pressing and curling exercises, especially on pressing exercises to save the shoulders. Don’t try to be too cute with your training.

830

[quote]Loui.s wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Loui.s wrote:
Hey CT,

Two questions for you:

  1. When specializing a muscle group (let’s use chest as an example) – if it’s a really bad part, can one focus on developing each individual aspect at a time over the course of a couple of weeks?

Example (taken from HSS-100):

Mon: Chest (upper) <— instead of thickness
Tues: Quads/Hamstrings/Calves (low volume)
Wed: Chest (upper) <— instead of width
Thurs: Off
Fri: Chest (upper)
Sat: Back/Shoulders/Biceps/Triceps
Sun: Off

Can one focus on strength in a single movement first (like the DB/BB Bench Press) as well?

  1. Recently, I’ve taken on a job where I am working 12 hour days (7-7). I am off on Sunday and I work 6 hours on Sat. I remember reading a post where you hardly trained during a period in your life due to work – what would you recommend for someone who wants to keep/possibly gain (strength/size) during a time like this? It’s a desk job, by the way.

Thank you very much.

  1. More info on spec work will be given when the I, BODYBUILDER program comes out. But yes, you can specialize on one lift.

  2. I had to almost stop training because of long hours, but I didn’t maintain my strength or size. I wish that I could give you a way to maintain all that with almost no training, but the fact remains that to gain strength and size you do need a certain volume, frequency, and intensity of work.

From my experience you need a minimum of 3 good workouts a week to progress.

Thibs,

Thibs, I need you to read this:

So far, I was able to get two work outs in with the crazy hours. I am doing a very low carb diet (except for greens) and I eat some fruit before my workout. Nothing is planned other than having fruit before the workout.

Right now, due to time, it would be very dumb for me to get into a serious training routine. What I am basically doing is just having some fun when I go, trying to lift heavy, try some exercises that I haven’t done, et cetera. The past two workouts have been about 40-45 minutes…

Now here is the crazy part: I’ve lost some fat and am gaining/maintaining strength.

What do you think is up with that? Is it because it’s fairly recent or something? I am not even getting adequate sleep. Will I eventually burn out? This is a little crazy to me and I would need an expert opinion.

Thank you very much.[/quote]

It is mostly a cortisol thing. Your body might have been overstressed before, and the training break / reduction in frequency might have finally allowed your body to catch up, hence the muscle growth.

Since you are just ‘having fun’ your cortisol levels might also be lower… cortisol can make you store fat and lose muscle if its out of whack.

Now, the fat loss is probably due to your diet.

Now will the gains last? No… once your body is done rebounding you will need more stimulation to grow.

831

[quote]jk270 wrote:
CT

I have read you’re not as concerned about workouts running up to or around the 75 minute mark. I have also read Poliquin and others talk about the hormonal changes (increased cortisol in particular) leading towards catabolism after about 50 minutes of training. Could you explain your reasoning behind your opinion? [/quote]

  1. It has not been shown that you become catabolic after 50 minutes. What happens? Train 49 minutes and you are anabolic… train 51 minute and BAM you catabolize. It is just plain dumb to believe that.

  2. YES training too much will jack up cortisol. But it is not really in relation to training time but rather training volume and intensity. Lets say that one person trains for 90 minutes and perform 5 total sets and another guy does 40 sets in 40 minutes. Who do you think risks jacking up cortisol the most? The second guy obviously. So as you can see, merely looking at training time is idiotic, at best.

  3. With proper peri-workout nutrition you greatly diminish, the risk of catabolism during a workout.

  4. I trained with Dave Tate and his crew… any of which bench over 700 and squat over 1000 and I can honestly report that their Saturday workout (squat and dead) lasted over 3 hours.

[quote]jk270 wrote:
Secondly, I am training legs twice every 6 days currently. Once with 3-5 reps (4 minutes rest) and 12 sets and then with 8-10 reps and 16 sets (2 minutes rest), is this too much volume? (Ignore if this is not enough info). I am aware there are usually general guidelines for sets per session per muscle group but do you split the quads and hams or just count legs as one muscle group? Thanks . [/quote]

Without knowing the exercises used and how intense the workouts are, I can’t really say. The other workouts you perform will also have an impact. But the best way to know is to ask yourself “Am I progressing?”. If you are then you are probably fine.

832

[quote]the pale writer wrote:
Hey CT, quick question…I saw you make mention of not being a fan of suitcase carries.
I always thought of them as a good core/conditioning exercise…care to elaborate?
Thanks[/quote]

No, not really.

I’ve seen such lift destroy individual with structural problems such as scoliosis, a leg higher than the other and similar conditions. Heck, I’ve even seen perfectly balanced individuals get injured simply by taking a small “wrong step.”

Not worth it at all. But feel free to do them, I just don’t like them, that’s it.

833

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
jk270 wrote:
CT

I have read you’re not as concerned about workouts running up to or around the 75 minute mark. I have also read Poliquin and others talk about the hormonal changes (increased cortisol in particular) leading towards catabolism after about 50 minutes of training. Could you explain your reasoning behind your opinion?

  1. It has not been shown that you become catabolic after 50 minutes. What happens? Train 49 minutes and you are anabolic… train 51 minute and BAM you catabolize. It is just plain dumb to believe that.

  2. YES training too much will jack up cortisol. But it is not really in relation to training time but rather training volume and intensity. Lets say that one person trains for 90 minutes and perform 5 total sets and another guy does 40 sets in 40 minutes. Who do you think risks jacking up cortisol the most? The second guy obviously. So as you can see, merely looking at training time is idiotic, at best.

  3. With proper peri-workout nutrition you greatly diminish, the risk of catabolism during a workout.

  4. I trained with Dave Tate and his crew… any of which bench over 700 and squat over 1000 and I can honestly report that their Saturday workout (squat and dead) lasted over 3 hours.

jk270 wrote:
Secondly, I am training legs twice every 6 days currently. Once with 3-5 reps (4 minutes rest) and 12 sets and then with 8-10 reps and 16 sets (2 minutes rest), is this too much volume? (Ignore if this is not enough info). I am aware there are usually general guidelines for sets per session per muscle group but do you split the quads and hams or just count legs as one muscle group? Thanks .

Without knowing the exercises used and how intense the workouts are, I can’t really say. The other workouts you perform will also have an impact. But the best way to know is to ask yourself “Am I progressing?”. If you are then you are probably fine.

[/quote]
So is it okay if the workout goes up to 75-90 minutes due to long rest periods (high load intensive sets) if the volume stays withing normal range ? OR if you feel like adding some beach work and abs ?

834

Much appreciated CT.

835

[quote]Thy. wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
jk270 wrote:
CT

I have read you’re not as concerned about workouts running up to or around the 75 minute mark. I have also read Poliquin and others talk about the hormonal changes (increased cortisol in particular) leading towards catabolism after about 50 minutes of training. Could you explain your reasoning behind your opinion?

  1. It has not been shown that you become catabolic after 50 minutes. What happens? Train 49 minutes and you are anabolic… train 51 minute and BAM you catabolize. It is just plain dumb to believe that.

  2. YES training too much will jack up cortisol. But it is not really in relation to training time but rather training volume and intensity. Lets say that one person trains for 90 minutes and perform 5 total sets and another guy does 40 sets in 40 minutes. Who do you think risks jacking up cortisol the most? The second guy obviously. So as you can see, merely looking at training time is idiotic, at best.

  3. With proper peri-workout nutrition you greatly diminish, the risk of catabolism during a workout.

  4. I trained with Dave Tate and his crew… any of which bench over 700 and squat over 1000 and I can honestly report that their Saturday workout (squat and dead) lasted over 3 hours.

jk270 wrote:
Secondly, I am training legs twice every 6 days currently. Once with 3-5 reps (4 minutes rest) and 12 sets and then with 8-10 reps and 16 sets (2 minutes rest), is this too much volume? (Ignore if this is not enough info). I am aware there are usually general guidelines for sets per session per muscle group but do you split the quads and hams or just count legs as one muscle group? Thanks .

Without knowing the exercises used and how intense the workouts are, I can’t really say. The other workouts you perform will also have an impact. But the best way to know is to ask yourself “Am I progressing?”. If you are then you are probably fine.

So is it okay if the workout goes up to 75-90 minutes due to long rest periods (high load intensive sets) if the volume stays withing normal range ? OR if you feel like adding some beach work and abs ?[/quote]

Yes, 100% fine

836

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
the pale writer wrote:
Hey CT, quick question…I saw you make mention of not being a fan of suitcase carries.
I always thought of them as a good core/conditioning exercise…care to elaborate?
Thanks

No, not really.

I’ve seen such lift destroy individual with structural problems such as scoliosis, a leg higher than the other and similar conditions. Heck, I’ve even seen perfectly balanced individuals get injured simply by taking a small “wrong step.”

Not worth it at all. But feel free to do them, I just don’t like them, that’s it.[/quote]

Thib, can you please comment a bit about your experience with scoliosis clients? Do you usually limit or exclude deads, squats, Oly lifts, etc. in such conditions ? Surely, the load distribution even with these “stable” exercises is offset on a curved spine, i.e. makes them rather dangerous ?

837

Thib,

What do you think of having a given target rep range for a specific lift, working up to a “training day” max for that given rep range, and then completing an additional “X” number of reps above a certain percentage of that days training max, with the number of additional reps you be shooting for depending upon what the numbers of the lifts in the build-up to that day’s max looked like?

On a side note, I wanted to ask you a separate question. I haven’t had a lot of time to search the articles and forums lately, but I have noticed you mentioning “ramping” here and there. Are there any specific threads or articles I should look at for more on this or will the forthcoming “I, Bodybuilder” expand upon your thoughts regarding ramping? e.g. how to use it properly, when it is appropriate and when it might not be, and things along those lines

838

Hi CT,

I’ve recently purchased your Mechanical Drop Set DVD/Manual.

As far as percentages of 1 RM are concerned, what ranges do you suggest for:

A. The Heavy Exercises that begin each workout
—80-85% ?

How close to failure do you suggest we train at for these sets? 1-2 reps short for the first couple of sets, and then pretty much at failure for the last 1 or 2 reps of the last heavy set of each exercise?

Also, what rep tempo would you suggest for the Heavy Exercises? 3010…30X0, etc. Is training to failure on the last few reps of these sets advisable, considering the mechanical drop sets are done to failure?

839

hey thib,

Do you have any experience with clients who have/had hernias?

840

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
hey thib,

Do you have any experience with clients who have/had hernias?[/quote]

As I mentionned before, I do not answer injury-related questions.