Hi Coach
I’ve posted a thread on T-Nation regarding the whole load versus time under tension topic for optimum hypertrophy. After reading Dave Tate’s mot progressive routine (30sec sets), as well as more stuff in this month’s Iron Man regarding 10x10, there is a fresh wave of support towards this style of training.
I’m assuming some form of periodization where both higher voume and low rep strength training is accommodated is best. Could you outline your own take on this?
Many thanks
JB
[quote]ThetfordMiner wrote:
Thib,
With your new specialization system, will it be essentially adaptable to fit just about any type of training endeavor in some way? i.e. maximal hypertrophy, Oly lifting, powerlifting, sports performance enhancement, and even things like postural correction
[/quote]
It is first and foremost a maximum hypertrophy program. If you understand the basic principles of the program you can adapt it to fit an needs.Can it be tailored to other goals? Sure! Will it be optimal? Who knows?
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Addweight wrote:
CT, do you consider olympic lifts as plyometric lifts?. I quitted
the last week plyos for resting, but I don’t know if I should also
quit oly lifts, due to the landing when you receive the bar.
I assume that you are peaking for an athletic event (track probably)… Your last clean workout should be 7 days prior to your event, your last snatch workout 5 days out.
I’m talking about workouts with loads above 80%… you can do cleans and snatches with around 60-70% right up to 2 days prior to the event.
With my hockey players I actually use low-load olympic lifts (5 x 3 at around 60%) on the day of their games to activate the nervous system.[/quote]
I’m actually learnig the snatch, so I’m using ligth loads.
I asked that question because in your article you adviced to do plyos
only a few weeks per year, to boost power, and I simply ask if you include
olympics in the same group.
Hey Coach,
I had a hormone profile done recently, the conclusion was that my growth hormones were too low. For this I got a certain workout protocol to follow, however the program seems pretty bad in my eyes (machines instead of free weights). I made some changes of my own, but when I showed these to the coach who did the hormone profile, he seemed to stress the importance of tempo, reps, and even certain exercises. So I was hoping you could take a look at the program I was recommended and help me adjust it to include free weight stuff.
Here is the program that I was given:
Day 1
A1. Leg press*. 6 reps, 4-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
A2. Leg press*. 12 reps, 2-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
A3. Leg press*. 25 reps, 1-0-1-0. 180 sec rest
(*Each set has to have a different foot position)
Repeat for a total of 3 times
B1. DB bench press. 6 reps, 4-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
B2. DB incline bench press. 12 reps, 2-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
B3. DB flyes. 25 reps, 1-0-1-0. 180 sec rest
Total 3 times
Day 2
A1. Lat pulldowns. 6 reps, 4-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
A2. Lat pulldowns. 12 reps, 2-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
A3. Cable rows. 25 reps, 1-0-1-0. 180 sec rest
Total 3 times
B1. Deadlift. 6 reps, 4-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
B2. Leg curls. 12 reps, 2-0-1-0. 10 sec rest
B3. Leg curls. 25 reps, 1-0-1-0. 180 sec rest
Total 3 times
I tried to make changes such as Squats, pullups, and deadlifts for the leg press, lat pulldown, and leg curls. But my coach stressed that especially tempo and reps need to be as outlined in the program.
So for example, one of my suggestions was BW squats to failure instead of the 25 rep leg press, to which my coach said that I can only do that if I fail at around 25 reps…However I would think that 40-50 BW squats would also be good for lactic acid production at the end of the leg superset. your thoughts?
Also for the back exercises I suggested Weighted chinups for the first set, followed by kipping pullups for the 2nd set (12 reps)…My coach said I can only do this if I can manage teh 2-0-1-0 tempo with the kipping pullups. What are you thoughts on the importance of tempo in such a protocol?
I’d appreciate your input greatly!
Regards,
Chris
What are the best tricep “mass builders” (where you use heavy weight/low reps) that do not involve much of the shoulder? I tried close grip benching yesterday and my shoulder is more sore than my tricep.
[quote]Loui.s wrote:
What are the best tricep “mass builders” (where you use heavy weight/low reps) that do not involve much of the shoulder? I tried close grip benching yesterday and my shoulder is more sore than my tricep.[/quote]
There is bound to be some shoulders activation when doing heavy triceps exercises.
Some where deltoid involvement is a bit less are:
Hi Thib!
I have a question about pauses during sets
In “High Threshold Muscle Building” you write that “you should shoot for
incomplete restoration; donâ??t wait to be fully recovered before starting a new set.”
In the article here you say:
“You need to start every set recovered enough to be able to put forth the inhuman effort required by this style of training. At least 2-3 minutes are required for upper body, and up to 4-5 minutes for legs.”
I really like working out hard and heavy but now I don’t know which advice I shall follow. Any tips?
Thanks!
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Loui.s wrote:
What are the best tricep “mass builders” (where you use heavy weight/low reps) that do not involve much of the shoulder? I tried close grip benching yesterday and my shoulder is more sore than my tricep.
There is bound to be some shoulders activation when doing heavy triceps exercises.
Some where deltoid involvement is a bit less are:
Thank you for the recommmendation. I just got over a shoulder impingement and when I did the close-grip bench yesterday, I feel as if I agitated my shoulder.
Hi Coach
Three years ago I went for an ACL reconstruction (on my left leg) where 2 of my hamstring tendons were cut to create a new ACL. My left hami has never quite felt right afterwards. Lately it has been worse (only got back to lifting 2week after a 3 and a half months off), especially at peak contraction. It feels very weak and sometimes like it’s going to pull.
I’ve been doing single leg curls, king deadlifts, single leg squats and ball hip lifts. Is there any other exercises or stretches I can do to speed it up because I’m pretty keen to start lifting heavy again. And to sort the problem out because its irritating the crap out of me!
Also on that, what should I start doing to prepare my body for heavier lifts with regard to injury prevention and the nervous system?
Would power cleans, front squat and the shoulder press be good exercise choices? and for how many circuit laps? or could it be done for time, perhaps the duration of your chosen sport? Also could you elaborate on the protocols other potential uses please.
Could this type of strength endurance be appropriate to maintain strength levels achieved after a specific strength boosting training block of 4-6weeks…? while pursuing base conditioning/power capacity training for sport over the next 4-6wk training block?? with the potential of alternating each training block to top up/maintain the respective attributes?
Thib,
As a world-class coach who has worked with a host of hockey players, do you have any tips for helping to design optimal conditioning programs? I realize that you could likely go on for days about what is optimal for on-ice, what is optimal for off-ice, how to blend it all together and balance things both during the season and over the Summer months, etc. Any big-ticket tips that you would share would be greatly appreciated.
And if it is not prying into your own work too much, do you tend to have direct control over the programming of on-ice conditioning work being done during the off-season or do you stay within the realm of off-ice work?
Hope things are better then ever for you with training and life in general.
[quote]Dwigs wrote:
Hi Coach
Three years ago I went for an ACL reconstruction (on my left leg) where 2 of my hamstring tendons were cut to create a new ACL. My left hami has never quite felt right afterwards. Lately it has been worse (only got back to lifting 2week after a 3 and a half months off), especially at peak contraction. It feels very weak and sometimes like it’s going to pull.
I’ve been doing single leg curls, king deadlifts, single leg squats and ball hip lifts. Is there any other exercises or stretches I can do to speed it up because I’m pretty keen to start lifting heavy again. And to sort the problem out because its irritating the crap out of me!
Also on that, what should I start doing to prepare my body for heavier lifts with regard to injury prevention and the nervous system?[/quote]
As an athlete, or atleast as an active individual, your surgeon should not have used your hamstring for the graft. Any good surgeon uses the patella tendon as it allows for better recovery and mobility in the future. Aside from that, I’m shocked it’s taken over three years to build up to where you are. I tore my ACL, MCL, and meniscus and had the surgery and was 100% in less than a year, back to squatting heavy with no issues ever, even three years later.
hello coach.i want to ask about some exercises and what muscles are activated with these exercises.so lets begin.i want to ask for the below exercises:sternum pull ups,seated rope row to neck.also i want to ask to describe some exercises for the sternum and clavicle chest area.what diferrence is when perform dumbell shoulder press with hammer grip and when perform with natural grip(the palms are inside and look the head.)also how much money and what details need to write for me an olympic lifting style program but with exercises sets and loading like medvedev book?why dont answer to me in my question abour nutrition?i am looking forward to hearing for you.
hey coach
i have a serious problem if it comes to incline dumbbell pressing… I do like something like a 7 5 3 wave … and the thing is… i do 7 reps with 48kg, 5 with 50 and 3 reps with 52 … each with 40X0 tempo … the thing is, i can’t get the 50’s and 52’s up on my own… even the 48 makes a problem for me, particular on the right hand, which normally should be dominant… i have to lean myself to the left side and press it up that way… and if there is nobody to help me, i can’t even make the 5 and 3 reps… i always need someone to press my elbows up otherwise no chance… it#s strange, because i always go full ROM, but can’t do the initial start…
so, is there a way to get better at this? i have no clew on how to fix this problem, and I’m sick of trainign with barbells by the way, i made whole new improvments since i started my chest day with incline dumbbell presses
thank you man, i appreciate it
Hey Thib,
What do you think of this Soviet cycle from the 70’s ? It was originally published in an O-lifting magazine for squats. Is this a good model for specialization in one lift? Would you modify it in any way?
Week 1 80% (6x2) 80% (6x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 2 80% (6x4) 80% (6x2) 80% (6x5)
Week 3 80% (6x2) 80% (6x6) 80% (6x2)
Week 4 85% (5x5) 80% (6x2) 90% (4x4)
Week 5 80% (6x2) 95% (3x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 6 100% (2x2) 80% (6x2) 102-105% (new max)
[quote]Thy. wrote:
Hey Thib,
What do you think of this Soviet cycle from the 70’s ? It was originally published in an O-lifting magazine for squats. Is this a good model for specialization in one lift? Would you modify it in any way?
Week 1 80% (6x2) 80% (6x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 2 80% (6x4) 80% (6x2) 80% (6x5)
Week 3 80% (6x2) 80% (6x6) 80% (6x2)
Week 4 85% (5x5) 80% (6x2) 90% (4x4)
Week 5 80% (6x2) 95% (3x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 6 100% (2x2) 80% (6x2) 102-105% (new max)
[/quote]
I feel that planning a whole cycle around percentages is the wrong approach. It might be good in a case where every single variable in an athlete’s life is controlled (such as in the old soviet system) but if you can’t do that it’s not ideal for the simple reason that your max capacity will fluctuate from day to day depending on fatigue, life’s stress, time of training, etc.
Let’s say that you had a super tough day at work, are having relationship problems and did not have time to get many meals in you on that day. Your ‘real’ strength level will be much lower than the one established at the beginning of the cycle and on which the percents are based on.
For example on a normal good day your squat max could be 400lbs but on the day quoted above getting more than 325lbs might be a chore. So if you have to perform sets of 6 with your established 80% (320lbs) you will probably not get it as your ‘real’ or ‘current for that day’ 80% would be closer to 260lbs.
On the other hand, on some weeks you might progress faster than the cycle plans and if you stay at the prescribed percents you might miss a good opportunity to ‘ride the wave’ and stimulate more gains.
Thib,
In your metabolic pairings article, you mentioned performing a (relatively speaking) "heavy exercise followed by a bodyweight movement in the 15-20 range. ANd in this thread, you suggested to one reader to try a pairing of 2 movements back to back with each being performed for 30-45 seconds with approximately 40% of 1 RM.
Are there major differences in terms of the net result between these 2 types of protocols?
I also recall you writing an article where bands were used for metabolic work but I can’t recall which article it was. Can the rapid band movements complement the above protocols or is it a separate method all its own?
[quote]cally wrote:
Dwigs wrote:
Hi Coach
Three years ago I went for an ACL reconstruction (on my left leg) where 2 of my hamstring tendons were cut to create a new ACL. My left hami has never quite felt right afterwards. Lately it has been worse (only got back to lifting 2week after a 3 and a half months off), especially at peak contraction. It feels very weak and sometimes like it’s going to pull.
I’ve been doing single leg curls, king deadlifts, single leg squats and ball hip lifts. Is there any other exercises or stretches I can do to speed it up because I’m pretty keen to start lifting heavy again. And to sort the problem out because its irritating the crap out of me!
Also on that, what should I start doing to prepare my body for heavier lifts with regard to injury prevention and the nervous system?
As an athlete, or atleast as an active individual, your surgeon should not have used your hamstring for the graft. Any good surgeon uses the patella tendon as it allows for better recovery and mobility in the future. Aside from that, I’m shocked it’s taken over three years to build up to where you are. I tore my ACL, MCL, and meniscus and had the surgery and was 100% in less than a year, back to squatting heavy with no issues ever, even three years later.[/quote]
My rehab was suppossed to take 9 months, but owed to a virus I contracted it took a little longer, maybe 11 months to a year. After that though it was 100%, passed all the tests and what not. Went heavy and everything else, but owed to studies this year I didn’t train from March to June. I’m now back training and it just feels weak and ‘niggly’.
[quote]OrangeCrush wrote:
Thib,
In your metabolic pairings article, you mentioned performing a (relatively speaking) "heavy exercise followed by a bodyweight movement in the 15-20 range. ANd in this thread, you suggested to one reader to try a pairing of 2 movements back to back with each being performed for 30-45 seconds with approximately 40% of 1 RM.
Are there major differences in terms of the net result between these 2 types of protocols? [/quote]
Yes, the early one is superior by itself because of the strength component. The later is strictly metabolic and is to be used in conjunction with a heavy lifting program.
[quote]OrangeCrush wrote:
I also recall you writing an article where bands were used for metabolic work but I can’t recall which article it was. Can the rapid band movements complement the above protocols or is it a separate method all its own? [/quote]
The article is, I think, my hypermetabolic article published on the Figure Athlete web site
[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Thy. wrote:
Hey Thib,
What do you think of this Soviet cycle from the 70’s ? It was originally published in an O-lifting magazine for squats. Is this a good model for specialization in one lift? Would you modify it in any way?
Week 1 80% (6x2) 80% (6x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 2 80% (6x4) 80% (6x2) 80% (6x5)
Week 3 80% (6x2) 80% (6x6) 80% (6x2)
Week 4 85% (5x5) 80% (6x2) 90% (4x4)
Week 5 80% (6x2) 95% (3x3) 80% (6x2)
Week 6 100% (2x2) 80% (6x2) 102-105% (new max)
I feel that planning a whole cycle around percentages is the wrong approach. It might be good in a case where every single variable in an athlete’s life is controlled (such as in the old soviet system) but if you can’t do that it’s not ideal for the simple reason that your max capacity will fluctuate from day to day depending on fatigue, life’s stress, time of training, etc.
Let’s say that you had a super tough day at work, are having relationship problems and did not have time to get many meals in you on that day. Your ‘real’ strength level will be much lower than the one established at the beginning of the cycle and on which the percents are based on.
For example on a normal good day your squat max could be 400lbs but on the day quoted above getting more than 325lbs might be a chore. So if you have to perform sets of 6 with your established 80% (320lbs) you will probably not get it as your ‘real’ or ‘current for that day’ 80% would be closer to 260lbs.
On the other hand, on some weeks you might progress faster than the cycle plans and if you stay at the prescribed percents you might miss a good opportunity to ‘ride the wave’ and stimulate more gains.[/quote]
Yes I see what you’re saying. I’ve tried your approach of going to training max of the day and go from there, and found that the max differs significantly.
But I can’t seem to establish the proper volume/load/frequency ratio for me…
E.g. I want to practice a lift 3 times a week and I love going 85%+ each time.
But I always fear of underworking and do as much volume as possible on this lift, and can’t find the right time to stop besides obvious fatigue.
What are your guidelines for total number of reps at 85%+ daily or weekly if the lift is practiced 3 times/week?