Questions About Fat Loss

Training
962

Sorry if I was asking too much. And thanks for responding anyways. :slight_smile:

Yes, I have done weekly refeeds, I handle the carbs well and typically feel full (muscle wise) and look great as the refeed day goes on. Typical refeed day was at least an extra 220g carbs bringing me up to over 600g in the early stages of my diet and currently at about 400g.

I do not feel like a retain water that much, maybe because I drink a lot so my body is used to flushing water through my system (overly simplistic maybe? I donā€™t know, this is way outside my knowledge base!).

I was WAY higher than 150-200g through most of my cut, the 150-200g was only towards the end. I started at well over 400g (including paraworkout) and gradually cut. It was only the last few weeks at 150-200g.

I had planned the carb load for about 575g per day Thursday through Saturday and pictures/mock contest on Sunday.

So based on what you are saying I may not need that much?

Regarding water/sodium, I feel like I am doing what you are saying, I am taking in 2 gallons of water currently and extra salt and basically was going to taper my water during the week and cut it Saturday evening.

963

Depends on what look youā€™re after. If you want to be dry, be conservative with carbs. Iā€™m not really interested in what you did with your carbs two months ago, what matters is the levels youā€™ve been doing for the latter part of your diet - thatā€™s what your body is used to.

You donā€™t have to be that exact with your numbers, do you calculate your caloric expenditure with the same accuracy? What if you walked another 20mins while you were food shopping, do you factor that in? Iā€™m just trying to make you look at both sides of the equation here, youā€™ve decided the carb amount to the nearest 5g increment, but your caloric expenditure might be varying with 300-500 from one day to the next just from regular activity.

Anyway, I find it to work just as good if not better to just eat carbs within a specified time frame. 12hrs and up to 16hrs (a full day) should work fine if you are really depleted. The muscles will just suck up the carbs, make blood glucose drop, stimulate hunger, then you eat again. Repeat the process until the rate of glycogen synthesis and glucose entry into the cells slow down. You will feel full and food intake will automatically go down. No need to force feed anything, nor any need to go hungry. I wouldnā€™t be surprised if a guy your size could get in 1500g carbs or more.

Load one full day, take 2-3 days to dry out by dropping carbs, thatā€™s the safer strategy vs loading for several days all the way until your mock contest day. Depending on how you look on Sunday you can put carbs back in to draw out the last bit of sub-q water.

Oh, and forget tapering water, it doesnā€™t work. The body responds within 12-16hrs to fluctuations in water intake so itā€™s better to taper water UP for 2-3 days, then just drop it (but donā€™t eliminate it or you will flatten out), the body will overshoot/overcompensate and flush out water well into the next day and the remaining water is pulled into the muscle with sodium, carbs, and the backstage/pre-shoot pumping up.

  • and again, note that these are just generic guidelines based on the limited amount of information given. We might do something completely different if I was working with you for several weeks, there might be things we can do wrt food choice and timing etc etc. For a mock contest and photo shoot, you should be fine and itā€™s a great learning experience.
964

[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
Depends on what look youā€™re after. If you want to be dry, be conservative with carbs. Iā€™m not really interested in what you did with your carbs two months ago, what matters is the levels youā€™ve been doing for the latter part of your diet - thatā€™s what your body is used to.
[/quote]

I do want to appear slightly dry, but of course, hoping to be fuller as well. Makes sense what you say about the carbs not mattering from 2 months ago.

[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
You donā€™t have to be that exact with your numbers, do you calculate your caloric expenditure with the same accuracy? What if you walked another 20mins while you were food shopping, do you factor that in? Iā€™m just trying to make you look at both sides of the equation here, youā€™ve decided the carb amount to the nearest 5g increment, but your caloric expenditure might be varying with 300-500 from one day to the next just from regular activity.
[/quote]

No I donā€™t calculate my caloric expenditure with the same accuracy, good point. :slight_smile:

[quote]Blade_MyR wrote:
Anyway, I find it to work just as good if not better to just eat carbs within a specified time frame. 12hrs and up to 16hrs (a full day) should work fine if you are really depleted. The muscles will just suck up the carbs, make blood glucose drop, stimulate hunger, then you eat again. Repeat the process until the rate of glycogen synthesis and glucose entry into the cells slow down. You will feel full and food intake will automatically go down. No need to force feed anything, nor any need to go hungry. I wouldnā€™t be surprised if a guy your size could get in 1500g carbs or more.

Load one full day, take 2-3 days to dry out by dropping carbs, thatā€™s the safer strategy vs loading for several days all the way until your mock contest day. Depending on how you look on Sunday you can put carbs back in to draw out the last bit of sub-q water.

Oh, and forget tapering water, it doesnā€™t work. The body responds within 12-16hrs to fluctuations in water intake so itā€™s better to taper water UP for 2-3 days, then just drop it (but donā€™t eliminate it or you will flatten out), the body will overshoot/overcompensate and flush out water well into the next day and the remaining water is pulled into the muscle with sodium, carbs, and the backstage/pre-shoot pumping up.

  • and again, note that these are just generic guidelines based on the limited amount of information given. We might do something completely different if I was working with you for several weeks, there might be things we can do wrt food choice and timing etc etc. For a mock contest and photo shoot, you should be fine and itā€™s a great learning experience.[/quote]

I am definitely looking at it as a learning experience in case I ever do a show I will have a pretty good feel for how my body reacts. Much thanks for all of the advice. I will be taking it into consideration. Instead of blindly eating the exact amount of carbs I originally planned I will be more aware of how my body is reacting and be ready to make adjustments.

965

Thib, with regard to fat loss, do you think the effectiveness of pulse-fasting has anything to do with ketosis? In an old article of yours you mentioned using leucine to enter ketosis faster. It occurred to me that MAG-10 could be even more effective, since coingestion of leucine and CH has been shown to spike insulin higher than leucine alone.

This is in part because I like knowing how things work, but I do have practical application in mind!

966

Coach, what do you think on mini cycles of bulking /cutting? Like Nortonā€™s approach of 4-6 weeks bulking alternated with 2 -3 weeks of cutting? Are this worth trying? I have completed cutting phase around two months ago and i wanted to add some muscle but without getting too fatā€¦

967

@ Swashblucker

I actually just asked this question in the Training Lab, basically, the MAG-10 Fast would be a better approach.

968

@ Swashblucker

I actually just asked this question in the Training Lab, basically, the MAG-10 Fast would be a better approach.

(Sorry, my stupid mouse sucks, way to sensitive, caused the double post)

969

wondering for a few tips on my new diet,
im currently 190lbs and 13.5% body fat after finishing a ā€œbulkingā€( know you hate the word) phase.
i dropped my kcals down to around 3000 after that to allow my body to readjust and now am begining this.
heres how it looks

kcals-2000
fat- 70g
carbs- below 50g
protein-280g

any imput would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!!

970

Christian,

Similar to the last post, Iā€™m currently on a cutting diet. My macros come out to about 2000-2200, fat around 55-60g, carbs around 120g, protein around 250gā€¦Iā€™m 6 foot 2 and 175 pounds (not as scrawny as one would thing)ā€¦My question - right now, my peri workout consists of a FINiBAR before and one scoop Surge recovery after. This comes out to 60g carbā€¦Would it be better to skip the Surge recovery and go with some anabolic load instead (which has less than one gram of carbs)ā€¦My diet looks something like this:

MEAL 1: 1 cup egg white, 1 whole egg, 2 chicken tenderloins
MEAL 2: 1.5 scoops MD, 1/2 cup blueberries
MEAL 3: Periworkout
MEAL 4: Salad (1/2 bag Trader Joeā€™s lettuce, either romaine or some other kind, 1 small tomato, 1 small bell pepper, 2 tbsp dressing, 1 can of tuna) and either a handful almonds, some chicken tenderloins or a scoop of MD
MEAL 5: Dinner - 1 large bag Trader Joeā€™s mixed veges plus either chicken, fish or 2 lean turkey burgers
MEAL 6: SNACK - sometimes Iā€™ll have a snack, sometimes I wonā€™t. If I do, itā€™s usually either almonds or a serving sunflower seeds
PRE BED - 2 scoops MD mixed with one tbsp EVOO

I feel like Iā€™m cheating b/c Iā€™m eating so much food, but my macros are pretty low. Iā€™ve read some stuff from you saying, however, that I should keep my carbs under 100g a day, as well as Shugartā€™s work. With 60 g carb come from peri workout, is there some better way? Also, what would you recommend in terms of a high carb up day? Thanks in advance!

971

CT, based on the transformations I have seen on here most seem to have taken the slow fatloss route to maintain muscle. With proper peri-nutrition and training, could one lose 15-20 lbs of fat in 6-8 weeks while maintaining as much muscle as possible? I would like to get to as low as

I am 5ā€™9 185 lbs with a BF% low enough to slightly see top abs and some separation in my legs. I am able to train as many days and as many times a day as needed.

972

[quote]james28 wrote:
CT, based on the transformations I have seen on here most seem to have taken the slow fatloss route to maintain muscle. With proper peri-nutrition and training, could one lose 15-20 lbs of fat in 6-8 weeks while maintaining as much muscle as possible? I would like to get to as low as

I am 5ā€™9 185 lbs with a BF% low enough to slightly see top abs and some separation in my legs. I am able to train as many days and as many times a day as needed.

[/quote]

There is a difference between fat loss and weight loss. A 15-20lbs FAT loss normally means a 25-30lbs WEIGHT loss because all fat loss also comes with water loss and some initial glycogen loss.

Losing 15-20lbs of WEIGHT is 6-8 weeks is actually fairly easy if you have a moderate or high body fat level; but a 15-20lbs FAT loss without muscle loss is another matter. Most ā€œgeneral publicā€ sources say to aim for a weight loss of 2lbs per weekā€¦ but they only use WEIGHT loss as their basic measure. Losing 3lbs of fat per week (which is your goal) would mean losing 4lbs of weight per week, twice the recommended amount.

Is it doable? Sure, Iā€™ve seen it. But without losing muscle mass it is not an easy task.

973

[quote]wfifer wrote:
Thib, with regard to fat loss, do you think the effectiveness of pulse-fasting has anything to do with ketosis? In an old article of yours you mentioned using leucine to enter ketosis faster. It occurred to me that MAG-10 could be even more effective, since coingestion of leucine and CH has been shown to spike insulin higher than leucine alone.

This is in part because I like knowing how things work, but I do have practical application in mind! [/quote]

I donā€™t think it has a huge role, no. Under the best circumstances (two workouts during the fast day) you might enter ketosis in the beginning of the evening of your fast day, and you will be kicked out of ketosis as soon as you start eating normally the next day. So you are not spending enough time in a ketotic state for it to be the main reason for the body composition changes.

974

[quote]oisin browne wrote:
wondering for a few tips on my new diet,
im currently 190lbs and 13.5% body fat after finishing a ā€œbulkingā€( know you hate the word) phase.
i dropped my kcals down to around 3000 after that to allow my body to readjust and now am begining this.
heres how it looks

kcals-2000
fat- 70g
carbs- below 50g
protein-280g

any imput would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!![/quote]

These are just numbers, they donā€™t tell me anything about your actual diet. Meal composition, meal frequency, nutrients timing, etc. Right off the bat Iā€™ll tell you that you will lose muscle on such diet. A dieted down figure girls who were 135lbs on higher calories than that.

975

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]oisin browne wrote:
wondering for a few tips on my new diet,
im currently 190lbs and 13.5% body fat after finishing a ā€œbulkingā€( know you hate the word) phase.
i dropped my kcals down to around 3000 after that to allow my body to readjust and now am begining this.
heres how it looks

kcals-2000
fat- 70g
carbs- below 50g
protein-280g

any imput would be greatly appreciated, thanks!!![/quote]

These are just numbers, they donā€™t tell me anything about your actual diet. Meal composition, meal frequency, nutrients timing, etc. Right off the bat Iā€™ll tell you that you will lose muscle on such diet. A dieted down figure girls who were 135lbs on higher calories than that.[/quote]

ok thanks, my breakfast is generally eggs, a few almonds n a shake of whey
then i have 5 other meals consiting of one of steak,chicken,fish and a bowl of brocolli with all!
could i ask what your rough calorific estimate would be for me then?
thanks again

976

CT,
What would be the maximum amount of fatloss one can have weekly with losing little to no muscle?

977

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]wfifer wrote:
Thib, with regard to fat loss, do you think the effectiveness of pulse-fasting has anything to do with ketosis? In an old article of yours you mentioned using leucine to enter ketosis faster. It occurred to me that MAG-10 could be even more effective, since coingestion of leucine and CH has been shown to spike insulin higher than leucine alone.

This is in part because I like knowing how things work, but I do have practical application in mind! [/quote]

I donā€™t think it has a huge role, no. Under the best circumstances (two workouts during the fast day) you might enter ketosis in the beginning of the evening of your fast day, and you will be kicked out of ketosis as soon as you start eating normally the next day. So you are not spending enough time in a ketotic state for it to be the main reason for the body composition changes.[/quote]

Assuming you start the next day maintaining a negative calorie balance, eating P+F meals, why would anything change?

978

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
CT,
What would be the maximum amount of fatloss one can have weekly with losing little to no muscle?
[/quote]

It depends on the individual and on the length of the fat loss phase. During the initial phase of a diet it is possible to lose quite a bit of fat without losing muscle, especially if one goes from a totally shitty diet to a solid, albeit low in calories, one.

However as the diet progresses, achieving more than 2lbs of fat loss per week is likely to cause the loss of some lean body mass. I would think that past the 5-6 weeks mark, losing more than 2lbs per week might indicate some LBM loss. But at first losing 4-6lbs of fat in a week is doable without losing fatā€¦ but that only lasts for 1-3 weeks.

979

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
CT,
What would be the maximum amount of fatloss one can have weekly with losing little to no muscle?
[/quote]

It depends on the individual and on the length of the fat loss phase. During the initial phase of a diet it is possible to lose quite a bit of fat without losing muscle, especially if one goes from a totally shitty diet to a solid, albeit low in calories, one.

However as the diet progresses, achieving more than 2lbs of fat loss per week is likely to cause the loss of some lean body mass. I would think that past the 5-6 weeks mark, losing more than 2lbs per week might indicate some LBM loss. But at first losing 4-6lbs of fat in a week is doable without losing fatā€¦ but that only lasts for 1-3 weeks.[/quote]

WOW, that is a lot more than I would have guessed. What would be a rough diet/training for those kind of results in a 4 week fast loss blitz?

980

CT sorry but i got another question,

im in college (aka i have no money) so a dozen eggs a day is pretty much a staple in my diet.

  1. how do you feel about whole eggs?

  2. would you consider them ā€œcleanā€ (for lack of a better word)?

  3. is there a number you would say is too many?

im roughly 5ā€™11", 200-205 lbs and 15% BF.

thanks for any info you can give me.

981

Hey Coach,

From your experience, will you say an athlete/client with a subscap of 8mm would progress BEST on a 40-40-20 type diet, even for fat loss?

Since increasing carbs, reducing fats and protein, I have seen better results as I goā€¦hence why I am now thinking that going to the above macro ratio may suite BEST.

Thanks,
GJ