A lot of brilliant people sitting around a table talking shop with nuanced perspectives. They have done so for hours. Then you come in, open the fridge and crack open a beer, lean against the table and start spouting off your ignorance and irrelevant points (and probably haven’t even bothered to read the whole thread)…
Your reasoning belongs in some IQ lowering “fake natty” YouTube video comment section.
Stop polluting the discussion so the rest of us can actually learn something. Thanks.
If I haven’t lost count we and Paul base our thoughts on one research. Everything else here is “experience”, if at all proven against time?!
If along that time an individual has but only once been on juice, all perceptions are biased:
Paul is on TRT:
Seriously, I don’t mean to discredit anyone, least of all Paul!
Hormones are the underlying foundation of all our talk here!!! Let’s at least use that to get “my experiences” and that research into the right light ( I don’t recall anyone having asked about prior hormone alterations in those participating in them researches )
From his influences at Juggernaut (though this was for someone who could tolerate volume):
There’s also RDLs and lunges on this day.
Volume tolerance and recovery is an individual thing, drugs or not. My training buddy is natty and I’ve never seen anyone tolerate such a crazy volume and progress.
Yeah that’s true I held back too… For the past month 2 month my training is high volume to failure, I progress, but my joints are beginning to catch me up. No way one can do that all year long
Guess what? It’s what every decent bodybuilder has done.
I bet if I went to “The Mecca”, 30 minute car ride from my house, and interviewed every IFBB behemoth there, NONE of them, would know the hell these “evidenced based” people are!
So 56-64 working reps of squats on top of a bunch of other stuff, and starting off with a set of 8 at 10RPE. That’s fucked up.
The funny thing is that Mike gave a presentation at last year’s online PL summit (the one that Koevoets guys was running) on hypertrophy considerations for PL, he recommended significantly lower volume than what he recommends elsewhere (I think he said max number of sets per bodypart/movement pattern was about 12-16) and that the focus should be on increasing weight on the bar (since that is the main objective of PL) rather than increasing volume. He actually said NOT to add sets each week like he advises otherwise, I think he said you could start with an easier week but other than that volume stays the same and progressive overload is in the form of bar weight or more reps.
Oddly enough, I’m not aware of him saying these things anywhere else and for some reason Chad still has programs and books using this method of increasing volume each week.
As far as building up to some massive amount of volume, there are some benefits to increasing work capacity. Josh Bryant says he uses that sort of strategy with powerlifters in the offseason, but with lower rep sets. So you might start off with 4 sets of 5 and by the end of the mesocycle (or next mesocycle) you are doing 8 or 10 sets. However, now there is yet another study (flawed as it is) confirming that sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is a real thing and that a high volume/low intensity is the recipe for it. So while it doesn’t matter if you are just after esthetics, for any sort of athletes this sort of training can actually be counterproductive.
I’m starting to wish I never knew who they were.
I cant believe this gets lost on so many people. This has to be the only activity where newbies look at what the best in the world do and decide to do the opposite, or come to the conclusion they dont know what they are doing.
If Steroids enhanced recovery that much, Juiced up BBers would train Full body every time they entered the gym. After all, if you are recovering fully sooner, why would you wait a week to train it again when you could train and recover 5 times in that same time period?
If you asked some of them what is a mesocycle, RPE, or MRV, most wouldn’t know.
Most also don’t know who are these evidenced based people.
I got shredded to the bone and improved weak body parts in six months with the help of a friend, and none of his approach was dependent on the information provided by the gods of bodybuilding or fitness.
The reason this thread is awesome, to Paul’s @Paul_Carter is because There’s discussion about what bodybuilders actually do!
Sponsored by the Vatican no less.
Edit: To add something useful to the discussion, the last two programs I ran were designed by the same guy (Brian Alsruhe) and shared a similar structure but a very different deployment.
The first was a higher volume linear progression program. It worked well and I saw results but I was definitely feeling beat up from it. The next program called for rotating percentages, and top sets pushed to form failure. I felt more exhausted despite the lower volume but never felt beat up. Muscles got hit hard but my joints were happy.
Most of alsruhe’s prgrams are also performance based. He’s a pretty jacked guy just doing strong man. But he trains sets to failure.
His conjugate layout is something like this
Front squats to a 3Rm
80% of too set amrap
+2x5 straight sets
I’ve done this before and after a 3Rm , amrap drop set those 2x5 sets become close to failure sets in themselves for me.
Brian is a cool guy. I can’t keep up with those giant set formats personally but that dude is an animal.
Oh for sure, even his hypertrophy focused programs are performance first. The man would tell you that himself too, so users should definitely know what they’re getting into. It does take some friggin pure effort though to get through those workouts as you’re aware.
For pure hypertrophy I’m sure following one of Pauls/Meadows/Dugales/etc. programs are a better option.
Brians conjugate is one I’ve had my eye on but I don’t think I’m smart enough to employ conjugate training yet and I also lack the means for DE work.
Because double progression has worked SO well for me, I feel like MOST people (non competitive lifters) don’t need anything fancy, periodization schemes or anything like that. I feel like if a person started with these stats:
Deadlift - 225 @ 5x5
Squat - 185 @ 5x5
OH Press - 105 @ 5x5
Bench Press - 175 @ 5x5
And did THIS sort of program (or progression lets say) and made sure to eat
DAY 1
Back Squat - 5x4-6
RDL - 4x8-12
Quads, Hams, Glutes, Core, Calves
DAY 2
Bench Press - 5x4-6
Incline Bench - 4x8-12
Upper Back, Lats, Chest, Triceps, Biceps
DAY 3
Deadlift - 5x3-5
Front Squat - 4x8-12
Quads, Hams, Glutes, Core, Calves, Traps
DAY 4
OH Press - 5x4-6
DB Shoulder Press - 4x8-12
Upper Back, Lats, Shoulders, Triceps, Biceps
After 5 years they could have reached a 400+ deadlift, 400+ squat, 300+ bench, 200+ oh press and be able to do a SHIT ton of rows and chins and look like they lift and are strong.
I wish someone would have told me earlier in my lifting career.
Yeah exactly. It’s a solid way of running it. It has good elements in it and like I said giant set format is brutal on you but I suppose if you can handle it it’ll make you a better athlete long term. That’s no longer my focus personally.
As far as bands go. Check elitefts pretty often they will run band 50% off pretty frequently especially around holidays. May be on sale now because of Father’s Day.
Edit:just looked and they’re not on sale. 10% off total order sale but not when id buy them personally
As far as holding them in place you can buy a pair of C-clamps to be one point or you can use dumbbells with band being attached to 1 and another (probably heavier) db crossing it to prevent it rolling. I ran conjugate out of my home gym using these methods and it worked fine.
Finally got around to listening to Poliquin on London Real. He talks about Dorian starting at 1hr 5 min in.
Talks about neurotyping a bit too
I just saw this post and now I’m really confused.
Lookin like a fuckin beast, though.
WTF are you confused about?
It’s really good as well. But if you’re going to do the cable version you might as well do the Y raise on an incline bench IMO.
