Question for Any Medical Professionals

Pharma
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Or aspiring professionals that are versed in the medical sciences…

I was reading a few of the main site articles here concerning bench teqniques. While reading the articles, one of the click bait ads caught my attention. It was one of those stupid “have you seen this celebrity recently” ads showing the before and afters of celebs that struggled with fat loss and finally succeed to some extent. The celeb on the bait link was someone I recognized and I thought it may be an interesting read…

Anyway…I read a little bit of that and kept seeing another click bait ad about tinnitus. Now obviously, these dumb ass link are trying to get you to watch some waaaay over length and repetitive infomercial demonizing some thing or another, and if you follow the rabbit hole to the end they always swear they have stumbled onto the answer and it can be yours for the low low price of $xxx.xx

Now, not to make this too long, but my interest was piqued because I was born with nerve damage in both ears and have never passed a hearing test in my life. Matter of fact, that one detail was the only thing that got me rejected when I tried to join the armed forces when I was 18. Tinnitus, or chronic ringing in the ears is something I thought was normal. I’m very familiar and have learned over the years to lessen the effect by training myself to employ distractions. I can define appreciate that if you’ve never experienced a constant high pitch screaming in your ears, and then all of a sudden find yourself facing this condition, how nerve racking and mentally draining / damaging this can be. Like I said, I thought it was normal so I didn’t know any better until later on in life. Back on point…

Interestingly enough, during this infomercial the guy said he found the answer to his wife’s tinnitus woes by reversing demeylination. Now I’d never heard of this before but the more I read about the myelin sheath, the more interested I am becoming to learn more…Apprently this fatty little nerve ending protection proteins can be linked to a very wide variety of issues, including tinnitus, joint problems, lethargy, insomnia, mental issues like depression, which also lead to low labido…you see a pastern forming here??? Pretty interesting how similar this list is to problems associated with low T and other hormone imbalances that are discussed in most BB circles right?

Even more interesting is the fact that certain hormonal supplementation and certain vitamin supplemtations are proven to INCREASE and promote remyelination. Namely … da dad da daaaahhh… TESTOSTERONE!!! Another is vitamin B-12…

So my question here for you medically savy is this…could there be a direct link here??? I mean, is it possible that all of the issues we face as we get older, low T, etc… really effect us in the way that it does because of it direct correlation to demyelination?? Is it possible that targeting supplementation with the mindset of regeneration myelin, instead of what we normally do and try to target test levels, could actually prove to be more safe and effective at curing our ills?

A penny for your thoughts please…and please keep in mind…I am no doctor or even medically educated, so my questions are completely derived from my own inquisitive speculation.

I’d love to hear the opinions of someone who is truly knowledgeable on this subject.

Thanks in advance!!

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I know the AR appears to play a role in remyelination, thus it is hypothesized anabolic steroids may play a protective role in men with multiple sclerosis, whether or not it’ll help tinnitus, I don’t know. Anyhow I’m not a medical professional, some others may be able to help more, good luck

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Thanks unreal! I really appreciate you taking the time. I’ve read quite a few of your posts and I have to say that I have come to respect your knowledge. You’re gonna make a great doctor one day kid!!

I guess my point in questioning this is, even though it’s way too premature based on the limited information I’ve acquired so far to form any conclusions, it just appears at first thought that there is a possibility here that we may have the tail wagging the dog when it comes to TRT. Not questioning anyone else’s experiences or expertise, but I thought that similarities in overlapping symptoms, coupled with the fact that the methods that are employed to treat said symptoms actually have also been proven to promote remyelination, just seems to BEG the question…is there a better way? Is there a common denominator here that is simply repeatedly falling through the cracks because the methods we have available are inadvertently correcting the myelin issues. Could that be the real culprit all along? Do we have the right string, but maybe the wrong yo-yo??

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subscribing to this thread bmbrady. This is very interesting to me since I am a long time suffer of tinnitis. I have no medical background. I have a ME degree and was a acoustics engineer for a military contractor. That is how I got the tinnitis in the first place.
I can tell you this I have had Tinnitis for the last 15 years and have been on T injections for over two years now with T lvls has high as 1200 and also experimented with my E2 level and it has not effected my tinnitis one bit.
The only thing that has worked for me so far is background noise like a fan in the bedroom.

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Yeah the fan in the bedroom is a MUST!!!

I’m wondering if, especially in yours and my own situations, even though test can promote remyelination, that if more focus was emphasized on this through supplementation to MAXIMIZE remyelination, could we actually see better results from the TRT process and maybe have added benefits in OTHER areas (possibly diminishing things like tinnitus) as well? Just speculating here for sure. Thanks for replying!!

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supplementation like Lipo-Flavonoid?
Over the years I have tried all the snake-oil pills with no effect. I am currently trying two peptides to increase my IGF-1 and GH in hopes of some repair. Going on 3 months daily injections with no effect yet my last blood test showed my IGF-1 increased from 99 to 140 which is only middle if the range.

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Not sure exactly what supplementation would be better to try here. I’ve never tried the snake oils cause I didn’t take my tinnitus as something wrong per se…And when I got old enough to understand that it wasn’t normal it was beaten into my head that it was just a part of life that would never change for me. I never sought any treatments whatsoever. I don’t subscribe to any of the hokey bs, although I find it very interesting to read things no matter how absurd they are sometimes. It’s amazing that the dumbest things can sometime yield one small nugget of truth. Learn something from nearly everything.

I’m thinking, and there’s a ton of research yet to do here, that isolating the strongest natural promoters of myelin protein production, and coupling that with the most efficient delivery supplements, could be worth pursuing?

Again I don’t know exactly what those supplements would look like yet. I know that Testosterone is a promoter, and you sound like you have that covered, but I don’t know the extent of the effectiveness of its promoting qualities? Maybe there are other hormonal supplements that are better for this?

Efficient delivery…no idea but I’m hoping to find that out!! Consider this thread the start of a journey for information. I’ll keep this updated with any new information I can find and hopefully be guided and nudged in the proper directions from the medically experienced here.

I will say this…my road of travel will stay as much on a natty direction as possible. I believe that almost everything the body needs to balance itself out (aside from the things we would do to enhance normal function) can be found in some type of naturally occurring food source. That’s where I am focused now. I truly believe (and maybe very misguidedly) that diet is king in the balancing act of the human body.

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I just did a little reading on Flavonoid, and the way I’m understanding it, it’s actually more to stop demyelination, not promote new healthy myelin production. So no…this may be a good thing to add to a supplementation stack, but it’s not what we are looking for as the ball carrier…

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Ok so here are some of things I’m coming up with that help maximize myelin production…

Melatonin
Iodine and Thyroid Hormone
Vitamin C
Zinc
Iron
Cholesterol
Lithium
Intermittent Keto Dieting
Phosphatidylserine
Pregnenolone
Uridine
Inositol
Lions Mane

I have to do more research to find out safe maximum doseages, most reliable and clean sources, and what if any problem could arise from the stacking of any of these…

Maybe a doc could chime in here?

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I am open for experiments within reason if you come up with any.
It will be interesting since you were born with this condition and I caused mine from years of exposure to loud noise if what might fix yours would fix mine. As I understand it I have permanent damage to the sound-sensitive cells in my cochlea. These sound sensing fibers break off and do not regenerate. These short fibers oscillate for some unknown reason and that is the sound I hear.
I have to wonder since this is not what happened to you do you think you have the same damaged cells in your cochlea?

My tinnitis is a steady tone that never goes away while I am awake. I can sumulate the sound using a frequency generator and speaker. The freq I hear is about 9,000 hz.

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Hey maybe we are on to something? Maybe I’m reading too much into it too…I intend to find out one way or another.

The damage to your cochlea would definitely be the cause of any hearing loss…but the tinnitus…not so sure about that from everything I’ve read.

I was told that I was born with extensive nerve damage in both ears (no explanations beyond that). I have hearing loss in higher frequency ranges but what’s crazy is that most higher frequency tones that most people have no problems hearing…I can’t hear them but I can “feel” some of them. Weird right? I can’t hear any tone whatsoever in those ranges but I can almost feel the base of my jawbones vibrating really fast lol. Another crazy thing is that even though I have all of these hearing problems, I picked up guitar and became a musician at around 12 yrs old. I played completely by ear until I decided to learn to read music, taught myself to sing, and play several other instruments. I don’t have perfect t pitch, but I have terrific pitch. I can recognized most tones in the first two octaves with pretty good accuracy, but it’s not perfect. I guess my brain found other ways around it because I never knew I had a handicap until I was much older. I’ve had the ringing for as far back as I can remember, but I can’t say for sure that was the case since birth and a direct result of the nerve damage and hearing loss. I’m sure that it was a major contributor if it wasn’t the underlying root cause. But then again, construction jobs as a teenager, playing music in loud venues, etc…probably didn’t help matters either!

I’ll keep the posts coming as I learn more and if I decide to try a few things, I’ll keep this thread updated with a log. Who knows? Might update this thread one day posting a miracle…may end up as another one to print out on some soft paper and wipe your ass with too! Lol Time will tell!!

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Alright time for a real expert to fact check me here please…

Here is what I am finding on the above mentioned list of things that could possibly maximize remyelination. The dosages I’m finding that are safe on some of these seem to vary wildly, so the ones with a tighter range I quoted the “middle of the road”. Others I just posted a range for. I would love for someone more knowledgable to fact check me here, and give any advice where applicable on these about possible warnings / side effects and if some of these can have devastating effects if taken together.

PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS LIST AS A RECOMMENDATION FOR A SUPPLEMENT STACK!! This is merely EVERYTHING I am finding that is pertinent, and some info that I am finding out about safe dosages. This list is for the purposes of you medical gurus to pick apart and critique. Again, please guys…DO NOT take this a grocery list and go buck wild. I can’t guarantee that the result wouldn’t be fatal! lol

Here goes…
All numbers are Daily dosages

Melatonin – 10mg before bedtime
Iodine – 150mcg (Subtract dietary intake from total to get supplemental amount if needed)
Vitamin C – Male 90mg Female 75mg
Zinc — 40mg (Subtract dietary intake from total to get supplemental amount)
Iron — 100mg
Cholesterol — 300mg (Usually from diet)
Lithium Carbonate ---- 1gr per 70kg of body weight
Phosphatidylserine ---- 100mg 3x (total 300mg)
Pregnenolone ---- No real data. Found one study citing 25mg - 500mg daily??
Uridine — 500 - 1000mg
Inositol 2mg - 18mg
Lions Mane — In the form of Yamabushitake (96% purity extract) 1000mg 3x (3000mg total)

how am I doing so far?

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I apologize however I don’t understand euphemisms, like this, what does this mean?

I’m not sure as to whether we’ve got something here or not. You see remyelination in the normal, healthy functioning body is efficiently regulated. Remyelination is typically a problem when one has a demyelinating disease. The mechanisms between what causes and how to improve remyelination remain poorly understood, though I’m sure one day we will have a fix.

Remyelination, from what I can recall is simply this (OPC’s--------ARROW POINTING RIGHT, oligodendrocyte ------- ARROW POINTING RIGHT, new Myelin sheath.)

I can’t find an arrow symbol

Im not an expert on remyelination however if it is already efficiently regulated by your body in the absence of a demyelinating disease, how would protecting the body from demyelination/ increasing the process of remyelination help? Maybe it does, it’s simply too early to tell. Are you currently on TRT?

I’ll leave with this, if the AR does turn out play a large role in remyelination it would be reasonable to say AAS that bind more strongly to the AR would be of greater help than ones with little binding affinity it said receptor

Sorry for late reply, I kind of… Forgot… Sorry

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No worries man. “Tail wagging the dog” is a saying to describe when the variable being controlled is being falsely influenced by an unknown factor. Normally, a dog will wag its tail. But every once in a while a dog will see just the tip of its tail and think it’s something else entirely, and start chasing it in a circle. Now the tail is wagging the dog! Let me see if I can think of a good real world example…

Say in a mechanical system, like air moving equipment (HVAC, wind generators, etc), you have a drive controlling a fan speed. There is a sensor in the ductwork connected to that fan that is reading pressure, and that is giving feedback for the fan drive to modulate the speed according to a desired pressure set point…with me so far? So say everything is going fine and the fan drive is coasting along at around 65% and maintaining the required pressure just fine. As the pressure rises too high, the sensor detects that and tell the drive to slow down a little bit. If pressure starts falling too much, the sensor reports that to the drive and it speeds up a little. System is doing its thing right?

Now imagine that someone punched a hole in the ductwork and some of the air pressure suddenly drops. The sensor would report this drop in pressure and tell the drive to speed up, The sensor would see the increase in pressure and be satisfied. Now you have a system that appears to be fine, but now instead of running at 65%, the drive is running at 85%. Haven’t lost you yet have I?

Now this entire system has the job of delivering all of this air pressure to some device in an office somewhere on the complete opposite side of the building, and this hole in the duct is somewhere AFTER the sensor that controls the fan drive, but BEFORE the office.

The person in that office turns to his co worker and says “do you think it’s getting hotter in here?” So he goes to the thermostat that’s controlling the air supply to his office and turns it up to no effect. After an hour of this with no relief, they decide to call a repair man and tell him “hey it’s hot in my office!”

The repair guy goes there and heads straight to the office to find that there is no air coming into the room. He immediately goes to the unit that is providing that air and sees that the fan drive is running and moving air beautifuly, so he thinks, “they should be getting plenty air because the fan is doing it’s job”. He decides that the device controlling the air that goes into the office must have malfunctioned so he orders one and tells the office guy that he is going to just have to tough it out until the new device comes in.

Fast forward to a week later…device has arrived and been installed and the repair guy turns everything back on, ready to pat himself on the back because he is going to be the office hero now. But he’s wrong. As soon as he turns it back on, office is still not getting any air. You see the cycle here?

Now hopefully this fictional repair guy will eventually figure out that there is a huge hole in the ductwork somewhere and get these poor office guys some relief, but the fact of the matter is that an UNKNOWN variable was introduced and threw off the entire balance of the system. If the repair guy would have really thought a little harder on it, he would have realized that he could have verified all of the other devices and turned his attention something else that would have indicated the hole. That’s the tail wagging the dog. The repair guy was chasing symptoms and making assumptions, rather than trying to get to the root cause of what was causing the problem in the first place.

Since I started my journey of learning about TRT, I’m seeing more and more people taking the same approach to gear. I almost did it myself. That’s why I started educating myself…to make sure that I don’t just start chasing symptoms. I don’t fault anyone for this because I’m finding that more and more, that’s what drs are doing too.

When I ask if we possibly have the tail wagging the dog, what I’m really asking is if you think it’s possibke that sometimes people have certain symptoms, then get a blood lab drawn and find they have some hormone imbalance, and then start supplementing those imbalances, but all the while there could be some UNKNOWN variable, ie demylenation perhaps, that could be driving the whole thing? And then bring the imbalances back in check and keep them there with a lifetime of external supplementation, but all the while the problem is really something else entirely?

Hope all that makes sense and, if you read this to the end, thanks for playing along!!

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Ahhh yes I think I know what you’re getting at, you’re talking about someone treating a problem that is caused by another variable, such as an individual with hypothyroidism, Cushing’s symdrome, prolactinoma etc. They treat the testosterone deficiency, however they still feel terrible as the variable CAUSING the testosterone deficiency (which is usually a deficiency or excess of some other hormone) has been left untreated, thus the person still has symptoms related to the other variable and had the other variable been treated, the individual could have avoided TRT entirely.

Yes, this kind of situation is fairly commonplace, not just with TRT but with other conditions as well, such as depression (getting treated for depression but the cause is actually something else, for instance someone with chronic disabling pain being given massive doses of SSRI’s/SNRI’s TCA’s or other antidepressants when what they really need is adequate pain control, or someone with low T being given anti depressants, I could list about a hundred examples of this.)

the reason I don’t understand euphemisms (and many times similies as well) is because I’m autistic, so sometimes I tend to take things literally and therefore cannot seem to realise the other potential meaning. The other day I was with my family and they were talking about something attacking an animal therefore the animal attacked it, the thing they were talking about was a towel. So I said “wait, that’s not possible, a towel isn’t even alive, the animal was just curious” of course people thought this was funny however these kind of misunderstandings are fairly common with me.

Anyhow [quote=“bmbrady77, post:14, topic:245811”]
I almost did it myself.
[/quote]

Are you talking about putting yourself on TRT or using gear? Do you have labs showing your current hormonal status, it’d be wise to get a comprehensive Pannel before you start using anything.

How old are you (not exact age, just give me the decade of age you are, 20’s 30’s, 40’s etc)

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If this story doesn’t make sense to some, because I know a lot of people aren’t mechanically minded, try this trick…

Re read my entire post, but substitute the following…

Fan drive = your heart
Sensor = blood pressure
Air = blood
Ductwork = vein
Office = your brain and / or body
Office guy = you
Repair guy = the Doctor
Hole in the duct = blood clot

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Yeah haha I got the jist of the story.

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I’m 41. You can check my current status in the Pre-First Timer advice thread.

I just got my bloods back and the dr called me. I have an appt on Tuesday to decide where to go from here now. I’m going to get a copy of those labs and post them in that thread so hopefully you guys can help me determine if my doc is heading down the right road with my treatment.

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Look like you you understood it just fine to me!!

It amazes me how some people justify their own lack of self education, barbaric attitudes, and complete disregard for others by saying, “I had a rough childhood. I got hit by my dad…I have so much emotional trauma” …etc etc And then I see someone like you…a kid that has autism of all things, overcome all of the bullshit that your life has thrown at you and still have the decency to treat people right, the self motivation to challenge you body hard, and the self discipline it takes to truly learn everything you can about the things that you are passionate about…

Not to get all sappy but your an inspiration man! Keep it real unreal! Lol

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Ok I just looked at your pre-first-time advice thread. I’d get dialed in with regards to TRT and solidify your training routine and diet before you starting blasting. Trt in itself can have a fairly dramatic effect on body composition on its own when done right, if you want I can post a few studies showing the effects of testosterone replacement on body composition with regards to fat mass, muscle mass and bone density.

Anyhow when people cycle, I personally don’t see the need to run 500mg for a first cycle, especially if on TRT. Literature shows great accruations muscle mass can be made on 300mg/week, as to estrogen management, I wouldn’t use an AI unless I absolutely HAD to, I’ve had a very negative experience with AI’s therefore my opinion is fairly biased.

I don’t like dishing out advice on drug use since I’m not a medical professional however I’ll say this.

If I was ever in a situation where I needed an AI, I’d use a serm rather than an AI. Estrogen is responsible for cholesterol management, it is well known that when one uses an AI with test vs test alone, the use of an AI greatly increases the negative impact on HDL cholesterol, therefore contributing to long term athrosclerotic burden, AAS (specifically orals) already have a profound negative effect on HDL and LDL ratios and a moderately negative effect on cardiovascular health, so why put extra strain on your lipids? AI’s either bind to and kill the aromatase enzyme or block the aromatase enzyme (suicidal/steroidal AI vs non-steroidal AI, SERMS merely bind to and deactivate tissues that are sensitive to estrogen related side effects (breast tissue, etc). When one has supraphysiologic levels of test in their system, their body will naturally increase E2 in an effort to maintain homeostasis. It’s about ratios, not numbers, at least that’s my opinion. Estrogen is demonised for some reason, however adequate levels of estrogen are required for adequate libido, sense of wellbeing, bone density etc.