Incredible thread, please keep it coming Shadow!!
General question… I’m low T, so Dr has me on test cup 200. Of course my insurance only covers 1 lab a yr, so I don’t get to do alot testing.since I’ve on test my sac has shriveled up. It used to only b for a lil while, then would “drop”. Well it hasn’t dropped in long time. What do I need to do?
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Shadow Pro - In my situation I have been on TRT for about 3 years and am currently self injecting at 200mg weekly pinning EOD. I am not a physique athlete. I am a powerlifter recovering from injury. My questions are as follows:
-
I have been considering taking Test in a performance enhancing doasage for some time now. I do not want to get complicated I want to run a simple Test cycle 500mg weekly for 12 weeks. Being that I am pretty much shut down with regards to creating my own test, would a simple B&C be beneficial (i.e. dropping back to 200mg weekly after the 12 weeks)?
-
I am recovering from Herniated Discs in my Cervical Spine. Is there any steroid that would be beneficial in the repair of same?[/quote]
I’m curious as to how much benefit you’d really feel jumping from 200 to 500mg/week.
Can’t imagine it being much.
[quote]therajraj wrote:
[quote]MattyXL wrote:
Shadow Pro - In my situation I have been on TRT for about 3 years and am currently self injecting at 200mg weekly pinning EOD. I am not a physique athlete. I am a powerlifter recovering from injury. My questions are as follows:
-
I have been considering taking Test in a performance enhancing doasage for some time now. I do not want to get complicated I want to run a simple Test cycle 500mg weekly for 12 weeks. Being that I am pretty much shut down with regards to creating my own test, would a simple B&C be beneficial (i.e. dropping back to 200mg weekly after the 12 weeks)?
-
I am recovering from Herniated Discs in my Cervical Spine. Is there any steroid that would be beneficial in the repair of same?[/quote]
I’m curious as to how much benefit you’d really feel jumping from 200 to 500mg/week.
Can’t imagine it being much.[/quote]
Im not sure, but if I’m over doubling my dose I would think it would be significant.
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]tazzx wrote:
I know every body has routines that work for them but in your personal belief, for someone natty who has been training a bit over a year do you believe the bro split is still idea routine you think or do you think the push pull split concept is better as hitting muscles twice a week is supposedly proven by science to be the most effective?
Also do you think squats are a must for a good lower body or do you think one could get away with doing leg press?
My end game goals are IFBB[/quote]
For a natural athlete, I don’t think that a regular bodybuilding split of training 1 body part each week is enough. Only after years and years of training will bring an athlete a point to be able to have enough intensity in their workout(weights and intensity) for this to be enough.
You mentioned that you only have 1 year of training under your belt, so you need a lot more frequency in your training. Stimulating the muscle at least twice a week would be a great idea. Push/pull/leg split would be a great place to start. Or train each body part twice a week… 1 time heavy and 1 time accessory work.(6days a week)
SQUATS YES!100%! Best leg builder, best for lower body strength, best for overall leg development… There is no replacement… You can do leg press in addition. Unless you have an injury that prevents you from this ability, then I suggest you squat.
[/quote]
Thank you for the response.
Also if you’d be kind enough, could you explain to me why on a cycle even as simple as just test training one body part once a week is considered okay but natural it isn’t?
I would have imagined since your body recovers a lot quicker you’d want to be training more consistently, or am I wrong?
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]pwrlifterchick wrote:
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]Raskens wrote:
Do you know how cycles differs for a powerlifter? How much does it affect your strength? Is the sideeffects overhyped? [/quote]
I think their cycles are a little safer, they don’t need to use insulin (very little if at all) and they don’t use diuretics or get to near death bodyfat percentages. They make use of the most basic compounds(orals and injectables) the most popular ones for strength gains would be: orals: halo, cheque drops, oral tren, dbol, Anadrol,tbol injectables: tren, test(some use test susp. Pre workout) GH in lower doses(4-6iu) All of these will significantly increase strength.
Bodybuilders use all of these (most likely with higher dosages) plus EVERYTHING ELSE! (Noted on page1)
The side effects are completely individual. People like myself can handle high dosage with minimal sides while other people can get horrible sides even from a low dose like 500mg/week. You’ll never know until you try and this is why I always recommend to start at a very low dosage. Side effects can be due to genetics, diet and cleanliness of products as well.
[/quote]
What would you recommend for female powerlifters? I’ve heard Var or Winny but wanted to know your opinion. Thanks.[/quote]
I would recommend Anavar for sure. Primo can also work in a low dose. Honestly, I am going to recommend you stay away from Winstrol, it’s a lot stronger than people claim… Yes it will help you with strength (it makes me strong as a bull) but you will get male characteristics as side effects. Some females don’t care so much, and if that’s the case then anything goes but with a low dosage.
Anavar. Start with 5mg a day and slowly build it up… 30mg would be the highest I’d push it to. (Increase every 2-3weeks)[/quote]
I probably should have started my last post by telling you some history… My apologies. I have been working out (BB style workouts) for about 10 years (never competed). It really was to lose weight/fat because I was very overweight at a young age. I recently started doing powerlifting competitions the last year. Just within the last year I have taken a few cycles. (2 of Winstrol, 1 of Anavar) Obviously with time off in between.
I felt better honestly on the Winny than the Var. It makes me nervous using Var or Primo just for the fact that I know a lot of it is fake, at least around this area. Winstrol I know is legit and I felt a lot of strength out of it. I only took 10mg per day (5mg twice split up) for 6 weeks. And I really didn’t notice any major sides. Just a little more acne and no menstruation while on cycle. By the 6th week my joints would be a tiny bit sore but nothing crazy like I hear with some people… maybe because of my supplementation and diet.
If I react good to Winstrol do you suggest sticking with it for future cycles? Or would you suggest trying to find something else? I honestly don’t want to develop male characteristics and I know it’s a risk with anything but since I’ve taken it a few times, I feel more safe with it than risking fake stuff with Var or Primo that I may get.
Also, do you have any recommendations for Women for PCT? Thank you for your advice.
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]Yogi wrote:
If it’s not too much trouble, could you describe how you’d set up insulin use for someone who doesn’t drink shakes and gets all their macros from solid food?
Goals are gain muscle, fat gain be damned![/quote]
Option1: Before breakfast… 5-10iu and then eat 50-100g of carbs (1/2 from simple carbs and 1/2 from complex) this could be oats and honey for one example.
Option2: post workout… 5-10iu (70% simple carbs, 30% complex) these could come from banana, honey, jam, dextrose, pineapple juice and the rest from rice cakes or white rice. (A ratio of 10g to 1iu is a good place to start)
*do not eat fat within the 4 hour window
The most efficient way will always be before the workout, but this will not be an option unless you are willing to try an intraworkout shake and forget about one solid meal.
Just curious, what is your logic behind just solid meals?
[/quote]
I’m not anti-shake, I just can’t digest whey worth a damn so I can’t use it. I drink a rice protein + leucine shake for breakfast which is also pre-workout.
I’d have no problem using EAAs or something like that as an intra-workout wth the slin. Were I to do so, how would you recommend I went about it? The typical protocol I see recommended (Mike Arnold) is quite clear that you need to use whey, but if there’s an alternative I’m all ears?
[quote]DoctorJekyll wrote:
Here in Aus, ancillaries etc are incredibly hard to come by at a price that doesnt require me to sell organs. That being said i’ll be switching to tren A at a low does at 11 weeks out. Should a high dose of B6 do the trick to prevent any sides? I’d only be looking at 300mgs or so p/w.
Edit: 300mgs (of tren not b6)[/quote]
Yes, you can try it and it might work but I’d recommend to have caber on hand incase you are sensitive.
So humbling a pro whose been there at the olympia …
Do you have any opinions on the interview with mike morris at some point claiming he saw a guy growing into his show in an hour? basically there was this group of guys injecting this competitor (don’t recall his name) everywhere with insulin and feeding him carbs basically and well …
he went from 190lbs looking like he doesn’t even workout to stage ready in an hour
[quote]DoctorJekyll wrote:
[quote]Derekcerva wrote:
First time poster so If I sound like a botard I apologize. Are Prohormones overall worthless?
I recent got my test levels checked, and I do not have 5+ years experience in the gym more like fish
But I do have low test levels so thinking about getting on a cycle of test, would this be advised against as my bf level is around 15% and from what i hear thats a bit high.
Thanks[/quote]
If you genuinely have low test levels you may be able to get TRT perscribed test from your doctor if you are just looking to correct that. However if your looking to use AAS for strength/muscle gains you should have a good number of years and excellent training/diet down before you go down that route. [/quote]
for some reason three got auto corrected from three lol
Thanks though
Do you think id notice anything significant coming from low test to 200mg or so a week?
According to my test I’m about 30% lower than I should be and lower than where a 40 year old should be at 23 yo. 
Shadow Pro,
What kind of schedule do you follow with deep tissue massage therapy for recovery and recuperation? What’s your take on the effect it has in these areas?
Thanks!
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]thor159 wrote:
Hello, first of all, thanks for your time, patience and initiative on doing this.
You mentioned supplementation can be crucial and be a big plus to a diet. So what would you recommend using and/or staying away from in terms of fat burning supplements?
Yohimbine, caffeine, L-Carnitine/Acetyl L-Carnitine, Ephedrine, etc? Could you list as well the best time/way and dosages for whatever of these you recommend?[/quote]
Best fat burning supplements and how to take them:
ECA(ephedrine/caffeine/aspirin) great to use but only for a limited time(4-6weeks tops) body develops tolerance very fast. Dosage depends how sensitive you are to stimulants. Experiment starting with a very low dose.
Indigo-3G - selective nutrient uptake, aids the body to absorb carbs more efficiently (6 caps everyday 30 min prior to workout)
L-carnitine- it’s ok but not as strong or effective as some of your other choices. 1000mg twice a day would be a good dose. I believe this supplement is very overhyped.
HOT-ROX(contains yohimbe) best thermogenic due to the ingredients, take 2 twice/day(in AM and before cardio)
Clenbuterol(starting at .2mcg)and T3(12.5mcg)are your best choices for Rx drugs…It all depends on goals, current bodyfat and training etc
[/quote]
Hi Shadow - for someone using over the counter fat burners, How long would you cycle off ECA? i assume you would cycle to something like a HOT-ROX and then could cycle back to ECA?
What do you see as the normal diet with the pros? Do some go low carb, low fat, or mixed? Does the diet for a natural lifter need to differ from someone on gear?
[quote]Derekcerva wrote:
First time poster so If I sound like a botard I apologize. Are Prohormones overall worthless?
I recent got my test levels checked, and I do not have 5+ years experience in the gym more like fish
But I do have low test levels so thinking about getting on a cycle of test, would this be advised against as my bf level is around 15% and from what i hear thats a bit high.
Thanks[/quote]
I don’t know if I’d use the word worthless, but I am not a big fan. First of all, you never actually know the exact dosages and ingredients that are actually in the product… Most of the labels have false advertising. The amount of damage it can cause is the same as steroid use, so you might as well use the real thing and you’ll know exactly what you’re putting in your body.
If you look at a previous post you’ll see a guy here got very bad gyno from a product called DMZ, this is not supposed to happen, therefore if you are using aas at least if you are in the “know” of what you’re taking then you can use preventative measures.
Your bodyfat is fairly high, but as long as you keep a perfect diet(since you are 15% you need to be in a calorie deficit) and add some cardio to the mix then I think you can get good benefits from using test. If you want to lose bodyfat and do cardio then the water retention won’t be that bad.
[quote]Drbannernyc wrote:
[quote]
How many times did you do this var only cycle? How long were the cycles and what was the dosage?
It can work to an extent, especially if you are starting at a very low bodyfat… It’s a very gentle compound, this is often a cycle that a female would run. Not to say it won’t work for males as well, but I need more info about you in order to give u a good answer.
If you only did anavar you do not need HCG and clomid for pct.
Give me age, weight, bodyfat%, years of training, frequency and the other info that I asked for and I’ll get back to you.
(As for injectables, maybe add masteron to the anavar for leaning purposes only)[/quote]
I am 24 started training seriously at 17 I am 233 lbs 12%bf, I train 4 days a week lifting and then I do a day of sprinting (usually saturday) and run a mile or so a day on lifting days. I have done these cycles, twice before. One of the times I was 18 and stupid; took Winnie (50mg) with Var (60mg) and suppressed myself a bit then a year later - The second time I did it I did Var only 60mg a day 4 weeks, Hcgenerate while on cycle, and Post Cycle/Unleashed with 1 week of Clomid for PCT- and I kept my gains, but regardless of that is it a good cycle? Should I pin next time or stick with this? and Do I need the clomid?[/quote]
In general, I think injectable cycles are more efficient and you can get better results with them. Honestly it’s really up to you and if you are satisfied with the gains you’ve received from var you can stick with it but if you are looking for bigger gains then injectable will give you more. A simple cycle would be: (for lean gains)
-test prop (75mg eod)
-masteron-p(75mg eod) OR primo 300mg/week
-anavar 60-80mg ed
-nolvadex 10-20mg/day
-HCG 250iu every 3rd day
*if you do it like this then there’ll be no need for clomid at the the end of the cycle. The cycle should give you nice lean gains and keep your hormones relatively balanced.
Your training seems suitable for what you’re trying to achieve (as far as I can understand)
1 Like
[quote]vstas wrote:
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]vstas wrote:
You mentioned doing regular blood tests. Where do you go for the blood tests and what kind of blood tests do you run? Is there a specialized panel for steroid users? [/quote]
I go every 3 months… (Usually the beginning and end of every cycle or when switching compounds) I know this can get a bit pricey here in the US but it’s my job and I have good sponsors and support so I can afford to keep my body as healthy as possible.
For my clients I recommend every 4-6 months because most people aren’t doing (or shouldn’t be doing) a cycle as aggressive as mine.
Kidney and liver function
Igf levels
Prolactin levels
Lipid profile (cholesterol etc.)
Free testosterone levels
CBC blood panel
Thyroid function
- my advice is to find a family doctor who has some clue about sports medicine and always be honest about what you take.
[/quote]
Thank you very much for your reply! Much appreciated.
[/quote]
You’re welcome.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Really interesting thread, thanks for doing this Shadow.
Here is perhaps a unique question. I apologize in advance for the length, but if you have time I would greatly appreciate it.
First some background. I am a 30 year old natty BBing competitor (pics in my profile if you are inclined to check them out, I know you mentioned in the first post you would like to see them from us). After nearly 10 years training and feeling as though I basically had made slim-to-no gains in the last 2-3 years both in muscle and in strength, I had some blood work done about 18 months ago and had low test levels (273), and at the time wasn’t in a great position to take care of that the official way so I just let it go at that.
Im going to recheck them soon, and should it turn out they are low I plan to do something about it now that things are more stable in my life. However I dont think I want to go through the hassle of going through a Doctor JUST to have this issue addressed (I have no other medical issues), and I would like to go slightly above TRT doses if Im going to go through the trouble of buying and injecting myself (I’m an RN so safety and admin is not an issue). Might as well make some extra gains if I’m already taking the plunge I figure
So given that background here is my question… Is it possible to run a low dosage of a single drug (TRT is around 100mg a week I believe, I would like to take that to 200-250 if I were to do this, basically 1ml a week instead of every 2 weeks that is standard in TRT) for a long period of time (indefinitely in theory)? My main concerns are that I dont want to be taking 5 compounds (2 different tests, an AI, etc…) (also a supply issue since I will likely do this through unofficial channels) and I dont want to be wasting my money/time if this is a stupid idea. I train my ass off and love it, but its beyond frustrating making no gains for seemingly years at a time and I believe my low T is part of the problem.
Again, I know you are busy and doing this for free so I hope this isnt too long, but its been on my mind a lot and you seem to be a very credible source and just happen to be available.[/quote]
No apologies needed for the length of your question, I prefer to know as much background information so I have something to base my advise on.
250mg/week is a great dose to run long-term(go with test enanthate or cypionate obviously) with your history of training I assume you will make very good gains from this… By the looks of your pictures I am guessing your diet is tact as well. From what I see, you are very lean and in good condition… You can use a bit of extra mass(can’t we all) on you and because you are going from natural to 250mg/week I think you’ll make a big jump in gains.
I understand the issue of getting stuff but if it’s possible try to keep nolvadex on hand(if gyno symptoms occur take 10mg/day) I doubt this would happen with such a low dose but some people are very sensitive. If you can get HCG then I recommend 250iu every 3rd day with the test, it will prevent you from shutting down if/when you decide to come off.
[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Also a newbie poster here, been reading and applying T-Nation knowledge since I started training however. First forum that has intrigued me to react.
To make a long story short:
I have done bodybuilding for about 3 years, gaining about 40 pounds of muscle (from 145 pounds to 185 pounds at 6’1")
At the end of my bodybuilding career is suffered a severe neck injury and kept on training for a year (sounds really stupid, but the story is more complex then that). I was in need of functional recovery and started doing crossfit, got bitten by the bug and stuck with it now. (No disrespect whatsoever to bodybuilding, see a lot of hate between the two sides but that is not me).
I finally found a magically good physical therapist so i’ll be returning to real intensity soon. My goal is to start competing at a high level as soon as possible. Competing at high level has always been a goal for me but I have been stopped my injuries multiple times. The past year I have put so goddamn much effort in becoming a perfectly functioning human being that nothing is gonna stop me now lol.
I am, and I believe the entire T-Nation community is aswell, convinced that nearly all pro crossfit athletes are on gear because of the great benefits they give towards crossfit style training. My question to you is what would you advice for a beginner cycle for crossfit?
I wont be doing it anytime soon, I’ll go clean for probably another year (i reckon it’ll take me this long before I start reaching plateus again) and then start it.
Thank you for the effort you take answering everybody’s (and hopefullly my) guestions!
[/quote]
Taking into consideration that in crossfit you need to keep your condition and endurance, I would suggest something like this.
12 WEEKS
Testosterone- if you don’t mind pinning every day I would recommend test-prop @ 75mg eod
If you don’t want to pin so often I’d say test-e @250mg/week
Masterone - mast-p @ 75mg eod OR mast-e @ 300mg/week
- for athletes not interested in weight gain I always recommend short esters because they cause less water retention and they are in and out of your system very fast.
Since it’s your first cycle, we don’t know how you react to drugs and what kind of side effects you’ll get. With short esters you can stop if needed and they work immediately so you’ll see results right away. Long esters take a few weeks until they are stable in your blood therefore the results would slower. Both will work great but it really depends on how often you want to inject.
Also add:
Anavar @60mg/day (much more gentle than many of the other orals out there)
OR
Winstrol @50mg/day (it will give you more strength but more aggressive than anavar)
Nolvadex 10-20mg/day (start with 10 and up it to 20 if you have any issues)
250iu HCG 2x/week
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
No apologies needed for the length of your question, I prefer to know as much background information so I have something to base my advise on.
250mg/week is a great dose to run long-term(go with test enanthate or cypionate obviously) with your history of training I assume you will make very good gains from this… By the looks of your pictures I am guessing your diet is tact as well. From what I see, you are very lean and in good condition… You can use a bit of extra mass(can’t we all) on you and because you are going from natural to 250mg/week I think you’ll make a big jump in gains.
I understand the issue of getting stuff but if it’s possible try to keep nolvadex on hand(if gyno symptoms occur take 10mg/day) I doubt this would happen with such a low dose but some people are very sensitive. If you can get HCG then I recommend 250iu every 3rd day with the test, it will prevent you from shutting down if/when you decide to come off.
[/quote]
Thanks for the reply, that helps a lot. Now just need to get the ball rolling on retesting my blood work.
[quote]jblack89 wrote:
Well since PM’s aren’t working, I guess I’ll have to post my question on here for all to see!
Hi Shadow,
I recently got busted for steroid “abuse” and possession. Apparently my county is pretty strict so they hit me with a felony for having like two half-full vials. On a positive note, I was able to get in to a program where nothing will go on my record if I complete the program successfully.
I absolutely hate being off, especially considering the fairly hefty doses I was on before. I’m currently being randomly tested, and soon I’ll be tested like every two weeks or so. It’s a ten panel urinalysis test, which I know doesn’t detect steroids, but the lab has the option of randomly testing further for steroids if they decide to do so. So I was wondering if you knew of any successful way to beat the test without having anything show up that would raise suspicion of me trying to beat the test.
Also I seem to be getting a lot of mixed information on the detection times of steroids like anadrol, dbol, and test suspension. Could you clear the air for me on those detection times? Also do you know if humalog would show up in a test, and if so, how long would the metabolites be detectable? I know the active life of all these drugs is very short, but I also know that some drugs can be detected long after their effects have worn off. Any advice here would be greatly appreciated, and I thank you for your time and wisdom.[/quote]
You’re best bet is GH, I doubt they’ll test you for that because it’s very expensive. You can use Humalog because it’s out of your system within 4 hours (6 maximum) but if they actually want to screw you they’ll find a way. Test suspension is about 3-4 days.
It depends how strict the testing is, I know lots of guys who pass piss tests by carrying a condom with someone else’s piss under their balls… The they just pop it and put it into the cup.
Don’t use Anadrol or dbol or any injectables, they can stay in your system for months. And if you get underground stuff you never know what you’re actually getting. It could say prop and be enanthate and then your screwed.
Better piece of advise… MOVE! Where are you living? That sounds pretty extreme. Only time I’ve heard something like this is if other types of recreational drugs are also involved.