[quote]SauceMonkey wrote:
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]SauceMonkey wrote:
[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:
[quote]SauceMonkey wrote:
Wow, just read all 22 pages and every single word
Shadow, one question regarding AAS and one regarding non AAS…
Currently I’m practicing getting stage lean with a coach, I’m making great progress and just broke under the 10% BF threshold. Stated cutting at 5’5", 160 lbs and now 153-154 through 5 weeks. Started at around 11-12%, keeping all my strength thus far and have even hit some PR’s. I’m 22 as well, did a mock power lifting meet with my partner and got 315/275/405 for Squat / Bench / Deadlift at 154. My goal is to see how my body reacts getting to 5-7% BF and then going on a long term bulk and compete at the end of 2015, or beginning of 2016.
My maintenance calories are around 2,600, and my macros right now are: 2,200 cals, 50F, 275C and 160P… started at 400g C in the beginning of the cut. Refeed is 2,800, 45F, 450C, and 150P. It’s been the most successful cut i’ve ever had and finally got over my fear of carbs lol. Cardio is LISS 3x20 minute sessions.
My question regarding non AAS is pretty simple, surprised no one asked it, unless I missed it:
I can’t train with food in my stomach at all, i get very queasy. So I guess you can say I fast until my workout, although i just started having 2 rice cakes for 14g CHO about 30 mins pre wo, then 10g BCAA 15 mins pre, and then intra another 7.5g EAA. Afterwards is my largest meal, usually <10g F (Trace sources), 175g CHO, and about 50P. About 2-3 hours later is another low fat, mod carb, and higher protein meal and then before bed I consume most of my fats and another large amount of protein.
So my question is this optimal? Can I still continue to make good progress with such minimal amount of food pre workout? Intra workout carb drinks tend to make me feel sick too, i’ve tried Plazma, malto, dextrose, gatorade, everything. Karbolyn, etc and i end up having to sell it all. In a perfect world, what would be your pre workout nutrition?
My second question, in regards to AAS:
In college a friend offered me anavar, and stupidly i decided to take it. didn’t do any research, ran anavar at 19 for 6 weeks. no pct, quit cold turkey. never had issues with libido or anything, thank god.
another stupid decision, and just did as older teammates on my college baseball team suggested, ran another cycle at 20, for 14 weeks of anavar at 40mg daily… pct was Nolva at 20/20/10/10, Erase and DAA at 3g daily. Again no issues, actually made ridiculous progress after Tommy John Surgery… went from 133 to 155 in 14 weeks and leaned out to about 11-12% BF, feint abs showing. Dieted like a retard, and lost essentially everything, became a carbophobe as well, and now i’m here where i am.
libido is fine, have ran one prohormone cycle of DMZ for 5 weeks and pct was on point… clomid/nolva, formestane, and kept most of my gains. its been about 4 months since PCT, and I want to wait until after i bulk naturally and hit a plateau before I cycle, but was wondering what you think of this cycle, probably about a year after any AAS or maybe another couple of months after PCTing from a 5-6 week oral PH cycle again (Haven’t decided on that):
Test E @ 500mg/week (1-14)
Kick Start w/ DMZ (prohormone, at 45mg for weeks 1-4)
Winni at 50mg for weeks 13-16)
PCT: Torem (120/90/60/30)
Nolva: 40/20/20/10
Armidex as an AI, dose I’ll play with
So would you recommend this cycle, alot of planning has gone into it? Nervous about pinning but i’ll get over it. have a pharma grade connection thank god, although past SERM use has been from UL’s, luckily with success. PLan on getting blood work in July before i head out to vacation and after my cut to 5-7% is finished.
Again long term goal is compete in 2015 or 2016, after adding more mass. i’m proud of how far i’ve come (broke my femur twice, got fat at 189, then dropped to 130 in 6 months of ddieting before college) but really wanna take this to the next level. i’m an ambitious little pr*ck so to speak lol very determined. diet is meticulously tracked, only cook for myself, and count everything. don’t need cheat meals, cause when you can make chocolate protein waffles or bake a snicker doodle protein cake, or cook mexican style dishes like a pro i don’t need them lol
Also, what are your opinions of SARM’s such as ostarine?
Thanks so much for the info and for your time, it’s guys like you that truly make a difference and prevent others from doing stupid shit like what i did :/[/quote]
Thanks for reading, this is a very good first post!
First question.Why is your protein so low?
how many meals are you eating each day? Did you try the Plazma in a lower serving size? Maybe half pre workout, half intra and half post workout? Also, make sure you are mixing it with enough water. If it’s a definite no, I would choose MAG-10 as the optimal pre-workout and post workout meal if you aren’t using Plazma. There is a small amount of carbs in the MAG-10 and you might like that for intraworkout as well. When I am low carbing on my diets I always drink it as my intra(I used to feel sick drinking during my workout as well but I haven’t had any issues with either of these). If neither of these work you could try a bit of baby rice pre and post workout, it should digest very easily. Look for a rice that doesn’t include any milk products but should include an ingredient called inulin, it’s a fiber that will help you with digestion. You can eat it as a pudding with a scoop of hydrolyzed whey and 30-50g from carbs about 1hr before your workout and immediately after. If a baby is able to digest this then it surely won’t be a problem for you.
I prefer bcaa’s intraworkout rather than eaa’s because I think it helps with recovery. If you aren’t using the Plazma you will need between 20-40g.
I’m getting the feeling that you are only eating 3-4 meals a day? Unless I’m misunderstanding? You should be eating more like 6-7.
I’m glad you didn’t get any bad side effects with the anavar cycles you did, you’re very lucky. Instead of the DMZ I would do something like oral tbol(run it for up to 6 weeks @ 40-70mg/day… I’m not a big fan of pro hormones because you never know what you are getting and could potentially get worse side effects. If you are doing test-e, oral tbol and winstrol it’s a decent gaining cycle with medium water retention. You will get a bit from the tbol and the test but nothing major. I am also not a big fan of peptides… You are never too sure what you are getting there and the results are questionable.
Instead of the ostarine, a better option for the same results and many more would be to use a low dose of GH(something like 4iu /day) it will completely stop any muscle breakdown, aid in recovery and help with your injuries. Also, it will help keep your body fat relatively low when you are eating more calories.
You can add HCG during your cycle as well @250iu 2x/week and 10mg of nolva during the cycle. Therefore, this would change your pct… You could use clomid for 4 weeks @50mg and nolva @20mg and 500iu HCG 2x/week (total of 8 shots)
Everytime you have the option or the budget to spend money on peptides, use this money to get pharm quality GH instead… The results will always be more profound and beneficial for all aspects of your goals.remember when you are using gear your protein consumption should be higher than when you are natural… 160g is not going to cut it. Honestly, I have natural figure clients eating more than 200g so I know you can do it!
Can you post a picture please?
[/quote]
Sure, I blurred out my face, tattoo, and background to keep myself anonymous. These were taken one month ago, cold in the morning at the start of my cut with my coach. Zero pump, no flex, etc… then also included is a picture of my leg after my mock meet, stupid leg pump.
I’ll talk to my source about GH, especially at a low dose. Seems like it would help given my past injury history and 3 surgeries, especially my elbow.
Protein intake i was always told 1g/lb is plenty, and carbs being protein sparing. When i do my macros and plan for the day, i make sure to hit the protein first, then stay under the carb threshold and fat threshold, and whatever is leftover i use for protein. i hit about 180-190g a day, just how the numbers work out.
I’ve tried everything regarding plazma and any intra carb drink, just can’t stomach them, idk why.
yes 3-4 large meals, 1,000 kcal + post wo, 500 kcal about 2-3 hours later, and then about 3-4 hours later about 600-700 kcals. varies everyday, that’s just the jist. sources are whole wheat complete pancake mix (for when i bake with protein powder), 99% lean ground turkey, white basmati rice, brown rice, sweet potato, oats, whole grain bread/bagels, fruit (post workout banana and either strawberry/blueberry), sometimes cheerios if i want a bowl of cereal (make it fit my macros), non-fat plain greek yogurt, 1% milkfat cottage cheese, eggs/egg whites, beans, etc
for fats: mct oil, natty pb occasionally, unsalted almonds/peanuts, fish oil caps, whole eggs, etc
everything is weighed out to the nearest gram right now as I cut, i’ll be less strict when i bulk.
i always was told meal timing/frequency didn’t matter, just the end of the day macros being met and if you’re in a total surplus/deficit. plus the bigger meals make cutting feel less like cutting, idk if i’d be able to 6-7 smaller meals tbh, as the former fatty in me likes to be satiated lol. but again i’m asking you because i’m serious about this and wanna take this to the next level in the next year or two.
perhaps include protein shakes in between meals to add more “meals” so to speak?[/quote]
Honestly I’m not sure where to start here, there is too much to change and the sad thing is that a coach set this up for you. It’s not something that I can answer with a few simple changes but your whole program needs to be reevaluated.
Whoever told you that meal timing is not important and that macros are the only thing that matters should not be coaching. This system will never work for you if you are trying to get yourself to the next level,it can work for average people looking for average results… I’m under the impression that you wanted to push things to the next level but if you keep going about it this way you will not get close to your desired look. At this point you are very far from being ready for stage physique wise (from a mass and fat loss point of view) you mentioned that you are 5% bf but I don’t think you are even brushing 10% yet.
I am not saying you don’t have potential to reach your goals, because absolutely you can do this but you need to reconsider your steps in the process to get there. You will never be able to put on quality mass eating 3-4 times a day, it just won’t happen. 6 meals is your bare minimum and since size is a big issue for you I would say 7-8. Whoever told you that 1g of protein per 1lb is plenty is clearly not educated and didn’t take into consideration the drugs you are taking… This info is something you will find in a 1980’s textbook.
Most important thing you need to straighten out before anything else is your nutrition… And with the amount of cycles you’ve done I was expecting to see someone with a lot more mass. This tells me your training and your diet are completely out of whack because with this amount of drugs along with a perfect diet and training program should have given you great gains.
I’m trying the best I can not to bash your coach and not to offend you. I just think you are being mislead and need to seek out more professional help because the potential is there and you seem to have the motivation so it’s a shame.
If I were you I would make these few changes to get started.
-6-7 meals a day
-increase protein to at least 250g (and probably higher)
-add the MAG-10 as a protein source
-if you decide to use GH, make sure it’s the pharmaceutical one.
-forget pro hormones, next cycle do the real thing with the right guidelines
I respect your enthusiasm and will to do better, I want to see it happen and it’s sad you’ve been pushed to the wrong direction. But you can turn it around and do great. Let me know how the food increases go.
[/quote]
Thank you for the reply SP. I don’t know if I said I was 5%, I’d venture to say around 10%, but 6-7% is my goal. The cycles unfortunately were undone from Tommy John Surgery I had done last year, lost about 15-20 lbs. Been building myself up since.
Not on anything as of now and don’t plan to until I hit a wall naturally during my bulk. I don’t plan on making the same mistake as before when I blindly followed what anyone said.
While my coach has indeed prescribed the macros, the idea of meal timing and meal frequency was dawned on me from reading an article on T-Nation by John Berardi. He said IF (small window, larger meals) is no different than a normal 6-7 meal day. And as a smaller guy, 6-7 small meals such as 400 cals a meal makes my appetite go insane.
I do know I need more size and after this cut I plan on bulking for a solid 12-18 months straight before I compete. But again, I came from 190 of pure fat, down to 130, and now sit around 152. In the midst of this was major elbow reconstruction surgery which basically made me start from scratch at 133.
I’ll be 100% sure to up the protein, and meal frequency, as obviously you know what you’re talking about. My coach doesn’t prescribe any ideas or tips on frequency. Just to do what makes you adhere to the diet. The idea of frequency came from that John Berardi article.
Do recommend just shakes as a meal? For example, something like this:
Pre WO: oats and whey
Workout, my routine is a 6 day push/Legs/pull and repeat type of training. Train for strength and hypertrophy.
Post WO: carbs / Pro
Next meal: Carbs / Pro
Snack: protein shake
Dinner: carbs and pro
Before bed snack: cottage cheese and healthy fats. Perhaps MCT Oil, or whatever.
I thank you so much for your time. And I know I’m no where near ready to compete. The elbow surgery really set me back but I’m in this for the long haul. I’ll definitely up the protein, and meal frequency though. I need to read the rest of your responses as I know someone asked about IF. Obviously the higher protein intake when on cycle, but off cycle do you recommend the same high amount? Thank you again for your time and honesty [/quote]
I am not familiar with the person who wrote this article, but I can tell you from years of experience ('myself and clients) that meal timing and frequently eating are some of the most important things you can do in order to maximize your physique.
Very good that you are planning to stay natural during your gaining phase (I don’t use the word bulk, people always use it as an excuse to turn into a fat ass)
Here are a few recommendations I suggest for you:
6-7 meals a day (change your macros… More carbs and protein and possibly less fat) a carb cycling approach might work so you’d have less carbs on non training days but DO NOT let your protein under 250g/day. The majority of carbs should be eaten in the 6 hours window around workout (pre, intra and post) if you have a problem with digestion stick with the baby rice I suggested. And try the MAG-10 intraworkout.
As for the diet, drop the cottage cheese and replace it with salmon or a steak, you can add mct oil if it’s steak but not to the salmon. The rest looks decent, just make sure you are choosing the right sources for protein and carbs, it makes a big difference. In your case, due to injuries and surgeries I would recommend using pharma GH @3-4iu /day on an empty stomach in the morning and add Flameout. BUT NO OTHER PRESCRIPTION DRUGS!
If you want something to give you a big jump in strength and mass you can try micro-pa it isn’t a prohormone and has no ill side effects. You can start this immediately.
Good luck!
(PS: Reminds me of the bad guys in 5th Element if you’ve seen that movie)