Q&A with Shadow Pro

Pharma
241

[quote]rager wrote:
Hey Shadow

  1. What is the highest dose of T3 you ever used? And how much cardio were you doing at that time?

  2. Do you think using Humalog the day before a show is useful if I only loaded for one day? Example would be using 10IU’s in the morning and 10Ius in the evening. I dont think you’d spill if you limit the carb load to one day while your drying out. I’d like to get your thoughts on this if you will?

I ask the first question bc I feel like using a high dose of T3 like 100mcg with allot of gear (total 5grams) is more beneficial to fat loss to muscle loss then say 2 hours of cardio where we know cardio is catabolic just as well as T3. I feel like guys who have a high metabolism do not require allot of cardio so why not match their metabolism via T3 instead of something more catabolic like cardio? My legs get decimated by doing that much cardio so I was thinking of doing a high amount of T3 for my next prep and keeping the cardio low (30min/day) and staying lean in the offseason which I am right now bc I just finished a show.
[/quote]

Highest dose I ever used 125mcg of T3 for 2 weeks, most of the prep was between 50-75mcg. I bumped it up at the end because I was a bit behind and I wouldn’t recommend doing that because it can eat your muscle. Most of the time i never go over 75mcg.

I used to do a lot of cardio when I was younger. I’ve got a lot smarter since those days and now I never do anything more than 20-35min 4-5days/week and I usually come more shredded than when I did tons of cardio.

As for the last day before a show, it’s very tricky! The insulin could definitely help if you are 100% ready and can help you fill out and dry up at the same time… If your water consumption isn’t right and you aren’t 100% ready then it can make you look like you never dieted for the show. Insulin use during the last week and day before the show is very complicated, many variables including… How sensitive you are to water retention, how many carbs you’ve been eating in the diet, insulin use during diet, leanness and so on… Very hard to give advice on insulin use in the last week without knowing your body. This is exactly why people hire coaches in order to monitor these things.

As for your last comments… There’s a few things you are definitely right about!
-Staying lean in the off season is a great idea
-people with fast metabolism won’t need more than 30 min/day but it’s individual and can differ on a case to case basis

  • I’m not sure that a high dose of t3 is your answer, probably would be more beneficial to adjust your diet and do something 50-75mcg of t3 throughout the diet. You will risk being catabolic if you run 100 or more.
    -stating that doing cardio is more catabolic than t3 is a very general statement, it’s most often not the case… Depends on the kind of cardio your doing and what your diet is like.

I’ll tell you that doing 20 min of incline walk won’t burn any muscle off of you, only get you leaner.

242

[quote]Frank Sinatra wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Frank Sinatra wrote:
Thank you very much for your time and caring enough to start this dialogue.
A pardon to everyone for me being new here. Been a customer of T-Nation and reader for years. It is about time I posted.

I have read every single First Time Cycle post on this site. But your opinion matters and I greatly appreciate your time in advance.

39 years old. Genetically not gifted. I am mainly ecto with tiny bit of Meso. Thinner bone structure, (ankles, wrists) not pure Mesomorph by any stretch.
I am 181 pounds and right at 11% BF skinfold 15.3%(exascan) Highest BF I have bee in years due to eating so much with my new diet over past year and reducing cardio to bulk. Been training exclusively bodybuilding style 5 days per week for 2 years. Before that Olympic Lifts and general weightlifting for fitness for 12 years as a military Captain. My conditioning was insane, maintained 8% BF year-round for years. But my training was mainly catabolic obviously. Strict diet planned by a IFBB Pro Coach for past 12 months.

I have access to a top TRT doc in California. Arguably the guy to go to.
He wants me to start a basic protocol and monitor me to see how I react to sides and to the stuff. My test levels are normal. My general health is perfect so far thankfully. Cholesterol, thyroid, liver all perfect. No history of diabetes or cancer in family. He said he will make me 26 years old again in terms of hormone profile and then maintain and monitor me. Is this a waste of time? The smart way to do it? I HIGHLY doubt he will give me Tren, high doses of Test or many of the other compounds in your first cycle recommendation. Probably not GH either.

My goal is to be around 200 pounds at 10% year round and then for summers like every other fool cut down to 190. I have no desire to be bigger than that or be stage ready. Is this sustainable and doable through training alone at my age? I am VERY committed, eat very strict and train at a very high intensity and monitor rest religiously.

Or will it help to be on a lighter TRT protocol or another heavier cycle?

If you think another cycle cycle would help, what would you recommend for my case?

Really appreciate your guidance and opinion.
[/quote]

Great Post! Thank you for sharing all of your information with me, I’ll be happy to share my ideas with you.

First of all, the goals your mentioned are very achievable. Since you are strict on your diet and very experienced in your training then I see no issue in starting a small cycle to help you progress.

I don’t recall giving first cycle advise in any general statement(correct me if I’m wrong) I will only speak for myself and what I know that other pros are taking which is NOT recommend for other people. I like to give advise on a case to case basis because that’s the only way you get the right information.

To help you get your goals (without knowing your current diet, which could affect the cycle) I would try something like this:
GH 2-4iu/day (2iu in morning 45 min before breakfast, 2iu 20min before training session)
*at your age I think the GH can assist in recovery, fat burning and general health
Test-E (250mg/week) 12-16weeks
HCG 250iu every 3rd day
Mast-E 300mg/week 12-16weeks

The testosterone will help you gain mass, strength and help you in your training. The masteron will allow you to keep a “hard” look and it’s a mild anti-estrogen.

I would use the trt guy to monitor your blood tests and hormone profile. I am only going to assume that he will give you less than 250mg/week and in order for any physique improvement you will need a minimum of what I suggested… If he will give you this then by all means go for it! When someone has a perfect diet, training past and good health profile like yourself, I see no reason not to try a cycle like this. It will take you to your goal with ease. You’re 39 with 12 years of training under your belt I’d say you’ve earned your right to give it a shot.
[/quote]

Wow! Thank you so much! Incredibly informative.

A bit of follow-up and useful information for further analysis. Since you wanted my diet here it is. Not sure how that might chage your recommendation for my first cycle.

Non training days no intra nutrition, no pepto pro upon wake up, no cream of rice and no carbs with last meal.

On training my diet is as follows.
Upon wake up 20 grams pepto pro

Breakfast 4 whole eggs
half an avocado

Pre Workout
40grams whey
2 ounces dry cream of rice
1 tbsp almond butter

Intra Workout
30 ounces water
60 grams Vitargo
20 grams pepto Pro

40 minutes Post workout
2 cups Cooked White Rice
6 Ounce Lean Steak

2 hours later
40 grams whey
2 tbsp almond butter

6 Ounce Cod
1 cup Spinach
1 Cup Japanese Yam

6 Ounce Chicken breast
1 cup broccoli
1 Cup Japanese Yam

4 follow up inquiries about your first cycle recommendation for me.

  1. Estrogen control and PCT. I know you recommended HCG intra cycle. I have a tiny bit of gyno right now. Barely noticeable but it does bother me. I even went to top plastic surgeons in Southern California and they both said it was hardly anything and they refused to do surgery on it they said the risks were not worth it as it was so small. But my point is I am concerned for bitch tits as a result of any cycle. No one else in family has this by the way. I would be grateful at your further thoughts (if any) on a proper intra cycle estrogen side prevention and PCT for me.

  2. Based on your educated guess the cycle which you recommend how often would I have to repeat this to maintain that 190-200 with 10% BF year-round? Once a year. Every other year? I assume there is no such thing as you do one cycle and you are set for 10 years (ha!) so any insight on this with an educated guess would be so helpful. I don’t have any muscle wasting and my metabolism is average to good. I am not shredded year round without training and I am not naturally Dexter Jackson style.

  3. With such “low” dosages of 250 test per week, do you recommend injecting them once per week in the Glute area? Dividing it up to two doses of 125? I am hoping to prevent that 2 day high then feeling lousy with a drop-off the rest of the week until my next injection. Not sure if this is applicable to such low dosages.

  4. What top pharmaceutical brands do you recommend for GH?

Thank you so much again. Please let us know if there is anything I can do to show support even though you prefer to stay anonymous. If there was a Paypal donate or whatever I would contribute for sure as a sign of appreciation.[/quote]

I appreciate the thought regarding a paypal account but I need to give something back to the sport that has given me so much over the years. Consider it my gift!

A few thoughts about your diet. Since you are starting a cycle, your body will be able to absorb more protein and synthesize it better so I would do the following. Increase solid protein meals to 8oz instead of 6. Replace your intraworkout to 2.5servings of Plazma (vitargo is NOT the same) and then you don’t need pepto pro because the Plazma is carbs and protein together.
Change your pepto pro in the morning to 1.5 servings of MAG-10
Preworkout, increase protein to 50g

Fat sources are great and on point

Intraworkout carbs can be increased as long as your aren’t seeing fat gains. Some people can absorb upwards of 200g of carbs and more during the workout. It all depends on how hard you train.

  1. If you are worried about gyno symtoms just take 10-20mg of nolvadex everyday form the beginning and it will prevent issues.
  2. Probably about 2 cycles a year. 12-16 weeks on 12 weeks off. In your off time, continue to train hard and eat clean and you should maintain your gains.
  3. 1 shot a week of 250 is fine…, the dose is considered low so you won’t notice any ups and downs as long as you use long esters.
    4.any of them as long as it’s legit. (Humatrope for example)

Let me know if you have any other q’s

243

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:
Hey Shadow

  1. What is the highest dose of T3 you ever used? And how much cardio were you doing at that time?

  2. Do you think using Humalog the day before a show is useful if I only loaded for one day? Example would be using 10IU’s in the morning and 10Ius in the evening. I dont think you’d spill if you limit the carb load to one day while your drying out. I’d like to get your thoughts on this if you will?

I ask the first question bc I feel like using a high dose of T3 like 100mcg with allot of gear (total 5grams) is more beneficial to fat loss to muscle loss then say 2 hours of cardio where we know cardio is catabolic just as well as T3. I feel like guys who have a high metabolism do not require allot of cardio so why not match their metabolism via T3 instead of something more catabolic like cardio? My legs get decimated by doing that much cardio so I was thinking of doing a high amount of T3 for my next prep and keeping the cardio low (30min/day) and staying lean in the offseason which I am right now bc I just finished a show.
[/quote]

Highest dose I ever used 125mcg of T3 for 2 weeks, most of the prep was between 50-75mcg. I bumped it up at the end because I was a bit behind and I wouldn’t recommend doing that because it can eat your muscle. Most of the time i never go over 75mcg.

I used to do a lot of cardio when I was younger. I’ve got a lot smarter since those days and now I never do anything more than 20-35min 4-5days/week and I usually come more shredded than when I did tons of cardio.

As for the last day before a show, it’s very tricky! The insulin could definitely help if you are 100% ready and can help you fill out and dry up at the same time… If your water consumption isn’t right and you aren’t 100% ready then it can make you look like you never dieted for the show. Insulin use during the last week and day before the show is very complicated, many variables including… How sensitive you are to water retention, how many carbs you’ve been eating in the diet, insulin use during diet, leanness and so on… Very hard to give advice on insulin use in the last week without knowing your body. This is exactly why people hire coaches in order to monitor these things.

As for your last comments… There’s a few things you are definitely right about!
-Staying lean in the off season is a great idea
-people with fast metabolism won’t need more than 30 min/day but it’s individual and can differ on a case to case basis

  • I’m not sure that a high dose of t3 is your answer, probably would be more beneficial to adjust your diet and do something 50-75mcg of t3 throughout the diet. You will risk being catabolic if you run 100 or more.
    -stating that doing cardio is more catabolic than t3 is a very general statement, it’s most often not the case… Depends on the kind of cardio your doing and what your diet is like.

I’ll tell you that doing 20 min of incline walk won’t burn any muscle off of you, only get you leaner.[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions as well as others. I have had 2 top prep coaches and just parted ways with my last one last week, both are top prep coaches in this industry but obviously we aren’t going to name drop. The problem I’m having with prep coaches is I feel like they hold back some information or some protocols which I feel are very beneficial but they do this bc of health reasons and legality reasons. I feel like doing my own protocol has taken the gloves off so to speak.

I can get very dry and shredded and I am using insulin on and off for 2 years with great results. I do have water issues as I do hold water but I also have the drying out process down to a “T” but the filling out process has been very tough for me. I usually start Dyazide on Thursday with 1/2 a pill then on Friday with 2 pills spread out throughout the day, with my usual water manipulation and sodium depletion, etc, then step on stage on Saturday morning. I know that the diuretic prevents allot of guys from filling out bc of the blockage of aldosterone but maybe Insulin can bypass this as I get super full off of insulin in just one day. I was thinking using Humalog just on Friday and depleting Monday - Thursday. I would dry out and fill out all on Friday which seems logical but what are your thoughts on this protocol? Most guys start loading on Thursday but I feel like there is no need if one is to use Insulin to hyper drive the carbs into the muscle. Spillage is possible but how if I am drying out?

On the T3 issue, I did also go up to 125mcg for last 2 weeks and boy, was that a mistake. I also was doing about 1.5 hours of LISS cardio with that so maybe I can go 75-100mcg with only 30 min of cardio and attain the same condition without losing size in my legs. Thoughts on this as well?

ps. I might hire another Prep coach but I am apprehensive on this after working with 2 of them that are highly regarded

244

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Shadow… Thanks too for helping my questions…!
[/quote]

You’re welcome, the reason I didn’t recommend caber is because im afraid after being shut down for so long that if you go on it might help a little bit while you’re on it but then shut you down even worse. That’s why I advise to try the more conservative route for this case.
[/quote]
You think another strong PCT is best at this point?
Also, What about my current TT levels… they look good. Is there more to recover with PCT than just TT levels and the other sex howmones ( LH, Fsh…ect)…?

[/quote]

Here’s what I think. Every strong PCT that you are doing will improve your libido. It’s not that I want to increase your current testosterone level, but it will do that as well. I want to give your libido another push and it should stay there or very close to good levels. It’s still my best option. The Cialis will also help a lot with this combo and I know this because I have had guys improve in similar situations (although not as extreme)

I’m not against caber, but if something goes wrong again after you go off then it might crash you even more.

Did you check your prolactin levels? And what other testing have you had recently?

Also, remember your not 20 years old anymore… These problems can sprout up at any point after our peak years. Guys always expect to come off juice and expect to be horny as a dog like they were when they were 18 but sadly it never happens.

245

[quote]jblack89 wrote:
Thanks Shadow Pro! I’ll def take your advice! I’m in northeast Ohio… I’m told my area is the harshest around when it comes to sentencing. Apparently they ran out of meth labs to bust. No other drugs involved, just gear. Thanks again![/quote]

That sucks!You’d think there’s much bigger issues in the world than this… The best part is that most of the cops are using it themselves.
Be careful, definitely not worth going to jail for.

246

Thanks for all of the great insight/advice. For someone who is not competing but still wanting the most out of their cycles, would you recommend the standard 12-16 week long ester cycles, 6-8 week short ester, or a form of b&c for a certain period of time. My stats, H- 6’2 W-265 15% BF 515 S/325 B/ 550 D

247

[quote]mat_gmichaud wrote:
Hi shadow, I’m a hard worker I always work 2X harder than any body and get half the result.

My question : I read most of your post about someone who wanna start with juice.

You said that Tren-A is one of the best in this case, but witch TEST are the best with it ? Should I use just short ester or a mix of short and long?

Im 20 years old, 190 lbs, 15% Bf and been lifting since im a Kid. I have done a lot of mountaindog training style , right now im doing old school raw moove with olympic stuff and some accesory. I have done a cycle 18 month ago ( deca with test-E) folow by Var with a blend of short ester. After i done 2 hcg, during my cycle i ran anti-estro.

im searching for lean gain and a lost of BF.

So witch Test with Tren-A ?
How much Hcg after?
How many mg/week , shoot every day?
Where to shoot after shoulder and ass?
[/quote]

No I didn’t say that tren-a is the best for a first cycle… I said tren in general is one of my favorites but it’s not for everyone and a first cycle should be discussed and chosen carefully on a case to case basis.

I am reading your post I feel like you should do some more research before jumping into another cycle… What jumps out at me is that you are 20years old with 15% bf and a history of cycles that don’t make a lot of clear sense and weren’t exactly what a first cycle should look like.

You are asking me very general questions and I can try and give general answers but this is not the way you need to go about this. In all honesty you should read through this forum and learn, don’t just jump on board and cause yourself more harm than good. When you said you did anti estrogens… What kind? How much? 2 HCG?(how much?). Are you doing regular blood tests?

Generally you can run tren-a with any kind of test, it depends on your goal. Usually when people are dieting and want to lose bodyfat they will stack it with test-prop, it causes less water retention. I would usually use HCG during the cycle and not after, the amount would be depending on the dosages you are at. How many mg/week depends on your cycle history, training level and mental state most of all (tren is harsh here). If you are going to go ahead and do a cycle anyways, start at 50mg eod.

Where to shoot? Technically you can inject in any muscle, this comes down to my original thoughts about research. You need to know how to do it correctly and you can read up on injection sites. Sometimes it’s not the substances themselves that create problems but the actually injection done incorrectly that can create hell itself. At 20 years old I would wait on the tren (and cycles in general)and spend your money on quality supplements.

I doubt that your natural potential is maxed and I strongly urge you to push yourself before you begin again… I may sound like an asshole now, but you’ll thank me when you’re older.

248

[quote]LMPCF wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Also a newbie poster here, been reading and applying T-Nation knowledge since I started training however. First forum that has intrigued me to react.

To make a long story short:
I have done bodybuilding for about 3 years, gaining about 40 pounds of muscle (from 145 pounds to 185 pounds at 6’1")
At the end of my bodybuilding career is suffered a severe neck injury and kept on training for a year (sounds really stupid, but the story is more complex then that). I was in need of functional recovery and started doing crossfit, got bitten by the bug and stuck with it now. (No disrespect whatsoever to bodybuilding, see a lot of hate between the two sides but that is not me).

I finally found a magically good physical therapist so i’ll be returning to real intensity soon. My goal is to start competing at a high level as soon as possible. Competing at high level has always been a goal for me but I have been stopped my injuries multiple times. The past year I have put so goddamn much effort in becoming a perfectly functioning human being that nothing is gonna stop me now lol.

I am, and I believe the entire T-Nation community is aswell, convinced that nearly all pro crossfit athletes are on gear because of the great benefits they give towards crossfit style training. My question to you is what would you advice for a beginner cycle for crossfit?

I wont be doing it anytime soon, I’ll go clean for probably another year (i reckon it’ll take me this long before I start reaching plateus again) and then start it.

Thank you for the effort you take answering everybody’s (and hopefullly my) guestions!

[/quote]

Taking into consideration that in crossfit you need to keep your condition and endurance, I would suggest something like this.

12 WEEKS

Testosterone- if you don’t mind pinning every day I would recommend test-prop @ 75mg eod
If you don’t want to pin so often I’d say test-e @250mg/week
Masterone - mast-p @ 75mg eod OR mast-e @ 300mg/week

  • for athletes not interested in weight gain I always recommend short esters because they cause less water retention and they are in and out of your system very fast.
    Since it’s your first cycle, we don’t know how you react to drugs and what kind of side effects you’ll get. With short esters you can stop if needed and they work immediately so you’ll see results right away. Long esters take a few weeks until they are stable in your blood therefore the results would slower. Both will work great but it really depends on how often you want to inject.

Also add:
Anavar @60mg/day (much more gentle than many of the other orals out there)
OR
Winstrol @50mg/day (it will give you more strength but more aggressive than anavar)

Nolvadex 10-20mg/day (start with 10 and up it to 20 if you have any issues)
250iu HCG 2x/week
[/quote]

Sounds great, lots of thanks for your help.

Few small questions. I hear a lot of good things about growth hormone and epo. Is there any benefit to adding them (without any horrible side effects ofcourse)?

Also about the cycle. Ill do the testosterone and masterone eod (on the same day right?), take the anavar/winstrol every day and HCG twice a week. Should I do the nolvadex right from the start for the whole 12 weeks or is that something for after (thought nolvadex was something for after, but then again I only heard stuff about cycle from the most retared people on the planet so I dont believe anything they tell me).

Sorry for the noob questions, everybody has got to start learning sometime right?

P.S. Diet/sleep/recovery is all on point![/quote]

GH is great for recovery, nagging injuries and fat burning. Since you are doing crossfit and don’t want a lot of water retention I would only do low dose of 2-3iu/day. If you are under 25, save your money until you are older… You’ll get more benefits then.

Never used epo, it’s mostly used by endurance athletes (marathon runners, cyclists) I don’t know enough about it to give you information and don’t want to mislead you. Since crossfit is not just an endurance sport I wouldn’t bother, especially on a first cycle.

Yes, you are doing mast/test on the same day, HCG 2x/week and I put the nolvadex there as a preventative measure to keep you safe from gyno… Better safe than sorry!

You have made quality posts and I don’t mind any questions from beginners, I actually prefer people to get off on the right foot. So let me know if you need anything else.

249

hey shadow i am 33,5-9,170 pounds,below 10% bodyfat and i have been training for 15 years,my first and only cycle was 7 years ago,2 winstrol tabs for 4 weeks and i also use eca or clen almost every summer for a month.my diet,training,rest and supps are ok and now i think
i want to try anavar,i fuckin hate needles and i have noticed some hair loss so i think its my only choise.

how should i use it?any pct?also whats best in your opinion eca or clen?i think clen gives me better loss but i am afraid about heart problems from its use.

thanks for your time,highly appreciate it.

250

[quote]MattWeitz wrote:
Hey Shadow. What are your thoughts on oral Turanabol? It seems to be touted as Dianabol without the water retention, aromatization etc. But would it be as/almost as effective for gains in mass? Or would it be more appropriate precontest?[/quote]

T-Bol is very similar to D-Bol but with less water retention, you are correct. Guys use it both in the off season and pre contest. For me, I prefer dbol in my off season because I get better strength gains from it and I’d probably choose a cleaner oral or contest prep… Not my first choice (but some people like it)

251

[quote]LMPCF wrote:
Dear Shadow Pro,

I Have another question I really would like to have answered. A friend of mine is on his third cycle right now after a pretty shitty second cycle (about 6 weeks gear free in between the cycles). He is in his 4th year of serious training and both sleep and nutrition are not a limiting factor.

He would like to have your feedback on the cycle and have his question answered.

It is a twelve week cycle:
week 1 - 8 100 mg test-prop e/od (inject)0
week 3 - 8 40 mg winstrol (tabs stanozolol)
week 3 - 9 Clenbuterol (2 days off, days on… etc) starting with 20 mcg, ending with 60-80 mcg)
week 9 - 12 20 mg nolvadex

He is in his 4th week right now but thinks an 8 week test-prop is a little bit long so he wants to convert it to 6 weeks with 150 mg test-prop eod. Is this ok? Should he increase/decrease dosage of his other compounds? Should he add or remove any compounds?

The only side effect he notices is decreased testicle size (he TOLD me) and a little bit of joint issues (due to the winstrol he says). Libido is not extremely high or low, little bit lower as usual.

His problem is that right know he doesn’t feel or see a lot of difference.
(Brand of the gear is Genesis, dont know if that’ll help you

Thanks a lot for your help man![/quote]

I would add 250iu of HCG eod it will help with the balls.

8 weeks on test-p is fine but it would run the nolvadex throughout the cycle 10-20mg/day

What is the goal of his cycle? It appears to me that he is attempting some sort of a cutting cycle? There’s only so much strength you can gain from 40mg of winstrol.

Tell me more about the goals and maybe I can be more helpful.

252

[quote]dutchie1 wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Drbannernyc wrote:

i never heard anyone talk about using nolvadex during a cycle, what would be the benefits?

Thank you for your effort in this forum shadow, a rare opportunity so i can’t help myself but take advantage of your knowledge [/quote]

The reasons I like to use nolvadex during the cycle:
-it’s a safety measure to prevent gyno symtoms from the beginning, nothing worse than chasing a problem once it’s already started.
-Most people don’t have issues with joint pain as opposed to arimidex.
-It keeps water retention down throughout heavier cycles
-light dosages (10-20mg) won’t affect the efficiency of the cycle.

I’m not saying you can’t use arimidex instead, just from experience I find it works a lot better for most people.

253

[quote]Ticket wrote:
Shadow,

Thanks for the time you’ve taken so far, great information.

Background before the question:
Age :24
Training Age: 4 years
Sports: Powerlifting and Rugby
Height: 168cm Weight: 73kg BF%: 11%
Lifts: Squat: 180kg Bench(paused):117.5kg Deadlift:226kg

I train 6x P/w currently, each session has a main lift (squat/bench/dead) for 3x3 or 5x5 then an olympic lift after for 5x2 followed by a bodypart hypertrophy routine which each get done twice in the week, back and biceps, chest and triceps, shoulder and legs(3x8-12 for 5 exercises) and then abs. Looking to gain lean mass and remain in my weight category <75kg for powerlifting and maximise strength. Currently eat roughly 3200-3500kcal per day as am slowly bulking(40% Carbs 40% Protein 20% fat) and am in Rugby off season.

I have contrasting advice from various sources as to whether or not to do a mild cycle of oral winstrol and anavar (50mg per day of each) and was seeking your advice as to what you would advise as to what drugs to do (I am entirely natural to this point) or even if to do drugs at all. Aims are to reach a 205kg back squat, 145kg bench and 250kg deadlift at 77kg and dehydrate down for competitions.

Thanks in advance for your time Shadow
EDIT: Tried to put in multiple images but only 1 was allowed so gone with legs as that’s the most important body part![/quote]

If you feel like you’re ready then I see no problem to start a small cycle. It seems to me like you have a decent background in training but I think you can reach those numbers naturally.

The longer you wait and the stronger you get naturally will determine how much of an impact your first cycle makes. If you decide to start now, try something like this:

If you aren’t opposed to injections I would do this
Test-p 75mg eod
Winstrol 50mg/day

  • have nolvadex in hand just in incase.

This will give you a decent jump in strength

254

[quote]rajs wrote:
Hi Shadow,

Thanks for doing this, all very interesting. How do you/other pro’s deal with any acne sides? I know this is very individual but guess it must be an issue for some?

Also what are your thoughts on equipoise?[/quote]

Personally, I’ve never had any issues with acne. If you’re prone to acne then you really need to watch out for underground juice. A lot of problems can arise from the oils not being sterile or other issues during production. If you are having a problem there are lots of over the counter soaps and creams to help and tanning can also help.

I like eq in the off season, give you great vascularity, increases endurance during training and it increases appetite (good for people who don’t like to eat) and it’s overall good for off season gains. I usually stack it with test-e and tren-e for off season, one of my favorite combos

255

[quote]Batman00 wrote:
In regards to synergistic effects, if someone is used to good gains at 600mg per week of test p… When adding mast into the mix is 300 test p and 300 mast p a stronger mix than just 600 test p ? I’ve heard its the total amount of mg that matters even if blended. Whats the call on the amount of mast p and test p to use if normally use 600 mg test p cycles? Thank you for the help. [/quote]

These are 2 different compounds that work great with each other but you need to treat them separately. They work on different pathways and have different benefits. For example: masteron is a mild anti-e while test is just a base that you use as a base for most, if not all cycles.
It’s not the total number of mg that matter, every substance has it’s own unique qualities benefits and risks therefore should be treated individually.
A good place to start (if previously using 600mg of test) would be 400mg of test-p and 300mg of masteron, someone more experienced could go with 600mg/400mg. A dosage that would be considered high would be 1g of test and 700mg of masteron. It really depends on your goal and cycle history as well as any other substances you are using.

256

[quote]johngalt191 wrote:
I knew this potentially awesome thread was going to get muddied with “hi, I am 16 years old and 170 lbs, could you design a cycle.for me?”, shit. Too bad. Wish people would read the stickies first.[/quote]

Don’t worry about this, I know how to deal with the kiddos :wink:

I will voice my opinion loud as clear, because I would never promote a 16yr old to do a cycle… Crazy kids!

257

[quote]nattynomore wrote:
Hi Shadow,

I have been lifting for 6 years and am planning my first cycle. I have done my research online but a lot of times there’s conflicting or misleading information.

Some relevant info about myself: I have pubertal gynecomastia (big pointy nipples) and heart disease runs in my family (father had heart attack at 46). My hair has thinned out naturally (I am 30) but I don’t have male pattern baldness or receding hairline. Also, I am a hard gainer with chicken legs and I believe I’ve reached my genetic max.

My intended cycle is as follows:
Deca at 400mg/week 1-8 weeks
Test cyp at 500mg/week 1-8 weeks
Test e 100mg/week 9-14 weeks, weeks 15-20: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg
Nolvadex if needed after the taper.

Here are my questions:

  1. How should I dose Arimidex? People are saying at 500mg/week of test it is not needed.
  2. Is a Ketoconazole shampoo good enough to prevent hair loss? I am thinking twice a week.
  3. Not sure if Cabergoline is needed. Please advise.
  4. Any other helpful comments/tips you guys might have about my cycle.

Thank you for taking the time to read this![/quote]

Clever UserName, I like!!

I will give you answers to the best of my ability without actually knowing you. Since you have heart disease running in your family I don’t know if I’d do it if I were you. You’re a big boy and can make your own decisions. It would be completely fine or it could kill you (sounds harsh… I know!) you’ll never know how sensitive you are to side effects until you try them.

Few comments about your cycle:
No need to switch to test-e when you are tapering down, you can stick to test-c. Either way, this is not how I would do it. If you’re using long esters then the cycle needs to be a minimum of 12 weeks and preferably 16. Run 250iu of HCG every 3rd day & 10-20mg of nolvadex throughout the whole cycle. (No arimidex)

The shampoo can help but it really comes down to your genetics. If your hair is going to fall out the nothing is going to stop it! Keep caber in hand and if prolactin issues are coming up then you can use it. Do constant blood tests, every 4 weeks if possible.

I’m not certain what your goal is but you’re going to have some water retention from using test and deca. If this is just for gaining purposes then it will work fine, if you are trying to lean I would have to suggest something completely different.

Hope this helps you out a bit.

258

that last post raises an interesting point.

Shadow, what do you think about tapering down into PCT? I’m a fan personally but it seems people like me are in the minority.

For example, I usually run my test a week or two longer than my other injectables, then I’ll taper down the dose by 200mg or so a week until I get to a TRT dose, which I run for two weeks, adding SERMs the second week then running the SERMs for another month or so when I’m off the test (5 weeks usually including a week where I taper SERMs down). I blast some hCG while I’m tapering down to wake the boys back up, and continue AI use right up until SERM therapy.

Thoughts?

259

[quote]rager wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]rager wrote:
Hey Shadow

  1. What is the highest dose of T3 you ever used? And how much cardio were you doing at that time?

  2. Do you think using Humalog the day before a show is useful if I only loaded for one day? Example would be using 10IU’s in the morning and 10Ius in the evening. I dont think you’d spill if you limit the carb load to one day while your drying out. I’d like to get your thoughts on this if you will?

I ask the first question bc I feel like using a high dose of T3 like 100mcg with allot of gear (total 5grams) is more beneficial to fat loss to muscle loss then say 2 hours of cardio where we know cardio is catabolic just as well as T3. I feel like guys who have a high metabolism do not require allot of cardio so why not match their metabolism via T3 instead of something more catabolic like cardio? My legs get decimated by doing that much cardio so I was thinking of doing a high amount of T3 for my next prep and keeping the cardio low (30min/day) and staying lean in the offseason which I am right now bc I just finished a show.
[/quote]

Highest dose I ever used 125mcg of T3 for 2 weeks, most of the prep was between 50-75mcg. I bumped it up at the end because I was a bit behind and I wouldn’t recommend doing that because it can eat your muscle. Most of the time i never go over 75mcg.

I used to do a lot of cardio when I was younger. I’ve got a lot smarter since those days and now I never do anything more than 20-35min 4-5days/week and I usually come more shredded than when I did tons of cardio.

As for the last day before a show, it’s very tricky! The insulin could definitely help if you are 100% ready and can help you fill out and dry up at the same time… If your water consumption isn’t right and you aren’t 100% ready then it can make you look like you never dieted for the show. Insulin use during the last week and day before the show is very complicated, many variables including… How sensitive you are to water retention, how many carbs you’ve been eating in the diet, insulin use during diet, leanness and so on… Very hard to give advice on insulin use in the last week without knowing your body. This is exactly why people hire coaches in order to monitor these things.

As for your last comments… There’s a few things you are definitely right about!
-Staying lean in the off season is a great idea
-people with fast metabolism won’t need more than 30 min/day but it’s individual and can differ on a case to case basis

  • I’m not sure that a high dose of t3 is your answer, probably would be more beneficial to adjust your diet and do something 50-75mcg of t3 throughout the diet. You will risk being catabolic if you run 100 or more.
    -stating that doing cardio is more catabolic than t3 is a very general statement, it’s most often not the case… Depends on the kind of cardio your doing and what your diet is like.

I’ll tell you that doing 20 min of incline walk won’t burn any muscle off of you, only get you leaner.[/quote]

Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions as well as others. I have had 2 top prep coaches and just parted ways with my last one last week, both are top prep coaches in this industry but obviously we aren’t going to name drop. The problem I’m having with prep coaches is I feel like they hold back some information or some protocols which I feel are very beneficial but they do this bc of health reasons and legality reasons. I feel like doing my own protocol has taken the gloves off so to speak.

I can get very dry and shredded and I am using insulin on and off for 2 years with great results. I do have water issues as I do hold water but I also have the drying out process down to a “T” but the filling out process has been very tough for me. I usually start Dyazide on Thursday with 1/2 a pill then on Friday with 2 pills spread out throughout the day, with my usual water manipulation and sodium depletion, etc, then step on stage on Saturday morning. I know that the diuretic prevents allot of guys from filling out bc of the blockage of aldosterone but maybe Insulin can bypass this as I get super full off of insulin in just one day. I was thinking using Humalog just on Friday and depleting Monday - Thursday. I would dry out and fill out all on Friday which seems logical but what are your thoughts on this protocol? Most guys start loading on Thursday but I feel like there is no need if one is to use Insulin to hyper drive the carbs into the muscle. Spillage is possible but how if I am drying out?

On the T3 issue, I did also go up to 125mcg for last 2 weeks and boy, was that a mistake. I also was doing about 1.5 hours of LISS cardio with that so maybe I can go 75-100mcg with only 30 min of cardio and attain the same condition without losing size in my legs. Thoughts on this as well?

ps. I might hire another Prep coach but I am apprehensive on this after working with 2 of them that are highly regarded[/quote]

My problem with the top prep coaches in the industry is that they are working with the top athletes and they take on so many clients they can’t give enough individual attention to their “less significant” clients so to speak. I don’t think that they are necessarily hiding information but when all of their attention is being put on Phil Heath or Kai Greene for example, an amateur athlete is lost in their priority and I’ve often heard of copy/paste diets/drug protocols being given from coaches who charge upwards of $5000.

As for you, my biggest problem with your last week is that you seem to think you have a formula that you’ve nailed. I’ve done over 50 shows and I don’t think I’ve ever had one show where I did the EXACT same thing. Sometimes you could go with no diuretics and others you could use quite a bit… Some shows I lower sodium a bit and others not at all (NEVER CUT SODIUM COMPLETELY) some shows I’ve used insulin and looked great other times I looked like crap. I have done a lot of shows without insulin and looked just as good.

There’s no magic formula like I said before. Just take it day by day at the end and make adjustments accordingly. 1 day insulin load can work and it can also fuck you up completely. The risk is up to you. (If you naturally retain a lot of water then you’re taking a bigger risk)

I wouldn’t do more than 75mcg of T3 & 30 min of cardio a day should be enough. If you are going to hire another prep coach I would suggest steering away from the big names and find someone knowledgeable who will give you the time of day.

260

[quote]anvilTX wrote:
Thanks for all of the great insight/advice. For someone who is not competing but still wanting the most out of their cycles, would you recommend the standard 12-16 week long ester cycles, 6-8 week short ester, or a form of b&c for a certain period of time. My stats, H- 6’2 W-265 15% BF 515 S/325 B/ 550 D[/quote]

And thank you for following… What is your cycle history? Goals(strength, gaining size, getting lean?) Current diet/training? Give me some info and I’ll be happy to help.