Q&A with Shadow Pro

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
If it’s not too much trouble, could you describe how you’d set up insulin use for someone who doesn’t drink shakes and gets all their macros from solid food?

Goals are gain muscle, fat gain be damned![/quote]

Option1: Before breakfast… 5-10iu and then eat 50-100g of carbs (1/2 from simple carbs and 1/2 from complex) this could be oats and honey for one example.

Option2: post workout… 5-10iu (70% simple carbs, 30% complex) these could come from banana, honey, jam, dextrose, pineapple juice and the rest from rice cakes or white rice. (A ratio of 10g to 1iu is a good place to start)

*do not eat fat within the 4 hour window

The most efficient way will always be before the workout, but this will not be an option unless you are willing to try an intraworkout shake and forget about one solid meal.

Just curious, what is your logic behind just solid meals?
[/quote]

I’m not anti-shake, I just can’t digest whey worth a damn so I can’t use it. I drink a rice protein + leucine shake for breakfast which is also pre-workout.

I’d have no problem using EAAs or something like that as an intra-workout wth the slin. Were I to do so, how would you recommend I went about it? The typical protocol I see recommended (Mike Arnold) is quite clear that you need to use whey, but if there’s an alternative I’m all ears?
[/quote]

I have clients who have problems with whey as well, and they are running the Plazma intraworkout without any issues. On the label it says: contains milk ingredients But I haven’t heard of any problems yet. Have you tried this yet?

Try something simple like 5iu and 1.5serving of Plazma. It’s just over 50g of carbs and 22g of protein (hydrolyzed casein). If all goes to hell, you can try branched cyclic dextrin mixed with a high serving of bcaa’s intraworkout (30-50g) it’s not the same but it’s not a bad combo to try.

[/quote]

thanks mate! I can’t use Plazma because I’m in the UK but I’ll try it with the BCAAs I think.

One quick follow on question: why BCAAs and not EAAs?

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
If it’s not too much trouble, could you describe how you’d set up insulin use for someone who doesn’t drink shakes and gets all their macros from solid food?

Goals are gain muscle, fat gain be damned![/quote]

Option1: Before breakfast… 5-10iu and then eat 50-100g of carbs (1/2 from simple carbs and 1/2 from complex) this could be oats and honey for one example.

Option2: post workout… 5-10iu (70% simple carbs, 30% complex) these could come from banana, honey, jam, dextrose, pineapple juice and the rest from rice cakes or white rice. (A ratio of 10g to 1iu is a good place to start)

*do not eat fat within the 4 hour window

The most efficient way will always be before the workout, but this will not be an option unless you are willing to try an intraworkout shake and forget about one solid meal.

Just curious, what is your logic behind just solid meals?
[/quote]

I’m not anti-shake, I just can’t digest whey worth a damn so I can’t use it. I drink a rice protein + leucine shake for breakfast which is also pre-workout.

I’d have no problem using EAAs or something like that as an intra-workout wth the slin. Were I to do so, how would you recommend I went about it? The typical protocol I see recommended (Mike Arnold) is quite clear that you need to use whey, but if there’s an alternative I’m all ears?
[/quote]

I have clients who have problems with whey as well, and they are running the Plazma intraworkout without any issues. On the label it says: contains milk ingredients But I haven’t heard of any problems yet. Have you tried this yet?

Try something simple like 5iu and 1.5serving of Plazma. It’s just over 50g of carbs and 22g of protein (hydrolyzed casein). If all goes to hell, you can try branched cyclic dextrin mixed with a high serving of bcaa’s intraworkout (30-50g) it’s not the same but it’s not a bad combo to try.

[/quote]

thanks mate! I can’t use Plazma because I’m in the UK but I’ll try it with the BCAAs I think.

One quick follow on question: why BCAAs and not EAAs?[/quote]

EAAs are good too but I find that BCAA’s are much better for recovery between sets and exercises. The energy drop towards the end of the workout is much less noticeable when using high amounts of bcaa’s.

I wasn’t aware that you couldn’t get Plazma in the UK. I only order domestic in the US but I thought it was available international as well, my bad.

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]

Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:
If it’s not too much trouble, could you describe how you’d set up insulin use for someone who doesn’t drink shakes and gets all their macros from solid food?

Goals are gain muscle, fat gain be damned![/quote]

Option1: Before breakfast… 5-10iu and then eat 50-100g of carbs (1/2 from simple carbs and 1/2 from complex) this could be oats and honey for one example.

Option2: post workout… 5-10iu (70% simple carbs, 30% complex) these could come from banana, honey, jam, dextrose, pineapple juice and the rest from rice cakes or white rice. (A ratio of 10g to 1iu is a good place to start)

*do not eat fat within the 4 hour window

The most efficient way will always be before the workout, but this will not be an option unless you are willing to try an intraworkout shake and forget about one solid meal.

Just curious, what is your logic behind just solid meals?
[/quote]

I’m not anti-shake, I just can’t digest whey worth a damn so I can’t use it. I drink a rice protein + leucine shake for breakfast which is also pre-workout.

I’d have no problem using EAAs or something like that as an intra-workout wth the slin. Were I to do so, how would you recommend I went about it? The typical protocol I see recommended (Mike Arnold) is quite clear that you need to use whey, but if there’s an alternative I’m all ears?
[/quote]

I have clients who have problems with whey as well, and they are running the Plazma intraworkout without any issues. On the label it says: contains milk ingredients But I haven’t heard of any problems yet. Have you tried this yet?

Try something simple like 5iu and 1.5serving of Plazma. It’s just over 50g of carbs and 22g of protein (hydrolyzed casein). If all goes to hell, you can try branched cyclic dextrin mixed with a high serving of bcaa’s intraworkout (30-50g) it’s not the same but it’s not a bad combo to try.

[/quote]

thanks mate! I can’t use Plazma because I’m in the UK but I’ll try it with the BCAAs I think.

One quick follow on question: why BCAAs and not EAAs?[/quote]

EAAs are good too but I find that BCAA’s are much better for recovery between sets and exercises. The energy drop towards the end of the workout is much noticeable when using high amounts of bcaa’s.

I wasn’t aware that you couldn’t get Plazma in the UK. I only order domestic in the US but I thought it was available international as well, my bad.
[/quote]

It’s not that it’s not available, you just get royally hosed on the shipping! It’s not Biotest’s fault, it’s just the way it is.

I would get it if I could afford it, I just can’t, unfortunately.

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]
Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[/quote]

mate did you ever get your prolactin checked?

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]
Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[/quote]

mate did you ever get your prolactin checked?[/quote]
Yes, Was in middle of the range each time… tried Caber anyways, and slightly helped but when stopped went back to the same…
I understand the course to help libido, but if my levels are good now, do you think it would make any improvement?
Thanks

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]
Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[/quote]

mate did you ever get your prolactin checked?[/quote]
Yes, Was in middle of the range each time… tried Caber anyways, and slightly helped but when stopped went back to the same…
I understand the course to help libido, but if my levels are good now, do you think it would make any improvement?
Thanks
[/quote]

Deca killed my libido for like 6 months. Seriously. I could get it up if I wanted to, but I never did.

I took caber and selegiline for a long time and it got better. Maybe it would’ve gotten better without them, but I reckon it’d be worth a try.

Don’t panic though man. It’ll get better.

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]
Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[/quote]

mate did you ever get your prolactin checked?[/quote]
Yes, Was in middle of the range each time… tried Caber anyways, and slightly helped but when stopped went back to the same…
I understand the course to help libido, but if my levels are good now, do you think it would make any improvement?
Thanks
[/quote]

Deca killed my libido for like 6 months. Seriously. I could get it up if I wanted to, but I never did.

I took caber and selegiline for a long time and it got better. Maybe it would’ve gotten better without them, but I reckon it’d be worth a try.

Don’t panic though man. It’ll get better.[/quote]

Thanks Bud…
It is better than months ago… I am at 17 months now. When the libido is decent the erections are great. its just the loss of libido after the deca that is the real problem…
Thanks Yogi…

I should have given all the cycle stats… My bad…!
The cycle was 20 weeks!
So the deca build up was huge when the test ran out…!
I did however gain 30 lbs of clean lean muscle mass during this cycle. It was my first.
After I have lost 8-10 of the gains, keeping nearly 20…

Shadow… Thanks too for helping my questions…!

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Yogi wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Hello Shadow

Sorry if this ? has been asked, I didnt see it…
I ran a cycle consisting of Test E /deca/ d-bol… All went well, except at the finish I didnt know better and stopped everything at the same time… Needless to say 4-5 weeks later I had problems…

All my hormones recovered 7 months later… Today my levels are great natural levels!.. However, I am still experiencing sides from the deca/
cycle…Dead libido / poor mood/ weak erections…I have read many guys with the same issues and some took 2 years to fully recover…! Today I am at nearly 17 months…Feeling better but really uneasy about the missing libido…

Can you talk about “Long Term” sexual suppression from deca use.
There seems to be a ton of confusion about the dreaded deca D!ck.

Many users have suffered even after they have recovered their endogenous testosterone levels and the axis has balanced…
Have you seen or heard of this being permanent ? any info on men who have weathered through it?

Thanks a bunch in advance…!
All the best…! [/quote]

Did you do any kind of PCT in the months after the cycle? HCG, clomid?
[/quote]
Yes, Ran tamox & clomid to no help …ran 2nd included hcg along with tamox & clomid… Have good levels now naturally ( 688) Age 42…
And still have sides…Libido is gone…! Making the erections weak…
Ive had good test levels for 10 months and have not gotten rid of the sides…I read others having the same problems. My concern is to wait it out clean or run cycles to help…?

[/quote]
When I stopped everything at once, the test cleared leaving the deca to run solo at high levels from the cycle build up. Some guys have stated ( anecdotaly) that they have recovered in 2 or so years and some saying they’ve had the same issues for many years after deca use… Do you have any experience or heard of these type of lengthy recoveries from deca…?[/quote]

I’ve heard of people being shut down from deca, but never as long as two years. Personally, I’ve never had a problem but I’ve never been a big fan of deca and use it very rarely. You can try something like this to increase your libido(it might help but I can’t guarantee anything)
3000iu of HCG every 3rd day (total of 10 shots)
Clomid 3 weeks @ 100mg, then 3 weeks at @ 50mg
Add 20mg Cialis every other day (it increases testosterone indirectly by lowering estrogen) this will also help with any kind of ED you’re having.
Do this until you are finished the HCG shots and then see if there’s any improvement. Obviously while you’re on it there will be but you will have to see what happens when you go off.

In addition to this you can use AlphaMale or any other reputable test booster of your choice.

I wouldn’t recommend to go on a cycle while this situation isn’t under control, it will mask the problem while you are on but can wreak havoc once you come off again. Best thing to do is try and fix it before you start up and no more deca for you!! There are much better substitutes for it.
[/quote]
Thanks Shadow…
At month 10 post cycle a TRT doctor put me back on at 500 P/W test e…
Was on 8 weeks and the test did NOT help at all…! I have bloods to show elevated test levels… Product was good.
Now of at 17 months… thinigs are better but nowhere near back to normal…Any other suggestions…?
Thanks again my man…

[/quote]

mate did you ever get your prolactin checked?[/quote]
Yes, Was in middle of the range each time… tried Caber anyways, and slightly helped but when stopped went back to the same…
I understand the course to help libido, but if my levels are good now, do you think it would make any improvement?
Thanks
[/quote]

Deca killed my libido for like 6 months. Seriously. I could get it up if I wanted to, but I never did.

I took caber and selegiline for a long time and it got better. Maybe it would’ve gotten better without them, but I reckon it’d be worth a try.

Don’t panic though man. It’ll get better.[/quote]

Thanks Bud…
It is better than months ago… I am at 17 months now. When the libido is decent the erections are great. its just the loss of libido after the deca that is the real problem…
Thanks Yogi…

[/quote]

happy to help man. Definitely get some caber.

Hey Shadow,

When you train you follow a body part split im guessing? Im sure you have incorporated heavy lifting in all of your years at some point. Do you enjoy lifting heavy or following a high volume set and rep scheme? Also, what’s your favorite body part to train?

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

Can you tell me how many times a week you train? What style of training? Cardio? Have you ever tried high protein, medium carbs and medium fat? Are you natural? (If not tell me what you are taking). Any supplements?
I’m sure there’s a lot of stuff you can do with your diet and supplementation that will allow you to eat more than 50g of carbs a day. In my opinion this is very low.
[/quote]

Thanks for answering! I started at 4 days/week, then I upgraded to 5, and then to 6. Now I vary between 5 and 6. My training are pretty simple and common. I’ll train one or two muscles per day with 4 to 6 exercices per muscle group. Reps vary between 8 to 12, and I always do 3 or 4 sets per exercice. Sometimes I do 5, or do dropsets, whatever. Rest is between 45 to 120sec I guess. I’ve never really done cardio except in school this year.

Supplements are very simple also : whey, pre-workout and BCAAS since less than one year.

I’ve done two very shorts and ridiculous cycles. First was Winstrol in caps for like 4 weeks. I don’t even know if it was really winstrol actually. Second one was 500mg/week of test enanthate for like weeks 1-7 and 350mg of winstrol for weeks 5-8.

I have never really tried anything else than a low carbs approch with high fats and high proteins. Sometimes I wonder whether I should try to reduce the fats and raise my carbohydrates intake. I keep on reading on Internet but I find it pretty confusing to see a lot of opposite ideas about nutrition.

Thanks.

What are your thoughts on Tren A dosing- Every day or every other day?

Hey Shadow

  1. What is the highest dose of T3 you ever used? And how much cardio were you doing at that time?

  2. Do you think using Humalog the day before a show is useful if I only loaded for one day? Example would be using 10IU’s in the morning and 10Ius in the evening. I dont think you’d spill if you limit the carb load to one day while your drying out. I’d like to get your thoughts on this if you will?

I ask the first question bc I feel like using a high dose of T3 like 100mcg with allot of gear (total 5grams) is more beneficial to fat loss to muscle loss then say 2 hours of cardio where we know cardio is catabolic just as well as T3. I feel like guys who have a high metabolism do not require allot of cardio so why not match their metabolism via T3 instead of something more catabolic like cardio? My legs get decimated by doing that much cardio so I was thinking of doing a high amount of T3 for my next prep and keeping the cardio low (30min/day) and staying lean in the offseason which I am right now bc I just finished a show.

[quote]Shadow Pro wrote:

[quote]Frank Sinatra wrote:
Thank you very much for your time and caring enough to start this dialogue.
A pardon to everyone for me being new here. Been a customer of T-Nation and reader for years. It is about time I posted.

I have read every single First Time Cycle post on this site. But your opinion matters and I greatly appreciate your time in advance.

39 years old. Genetically not gifted. I am mainly ecto with tiny bit of Meso. Thinner bone structure, (ankles, wrists) not pure Mesomorph by any stretch.
I am 181 pounds and right at 11% BF skinfold 15.3%(exascan) Highest BF I have bee in years due to eating so much with my new diet over past year and reducing cardio to bulk. Been training exclusively bodybuilding style 5 days per week for 2 years. Before that Olympic Lifts and general weightlifting for fitness for 12 years as a military Captain. My conditioning was insane, maintained 8% BF year-round for years. But my training was mainly catabolic obviously. Strict diet planned by a IFBB Pro Coach for past 12 months.

I have access to a top TRT doc in California. Arguably the guy to go to.
He wants me to start a basic protocol and monitor me to see how I react to sides and to the stuff. My test levels are normal. My general health is perfect so far thankfully. Cholesterol, thyroid, liver all perfect. No history of diabetes or cancer in family. He said he will make me 26 years old again in terms of hormone profile and then maintain and monitor me. Is this a waste of time? The smart way to do it? I HIGHLY doubt he will give me Tren, high doses of Test or many of the other compounds in your first cycle recommendation. Probably not GH either.

My goal is to be around 200 pounds at 10% year round and then for summers like every other fool cut down to 190. I have no desire to be bigger than that or be stage ready. Is this sustainable and doable through training alone at my age? I am VERY committed, eat very strict and train at a very high intensity and monitor rest religiously.

Or will it help to be on a lighter TRT protocol or another heavier cycle?

If you think another cycle cycle would help, what would you recommend for my case?

Really appreciate your guidance and opinion.
[/quote]

Great Post! Thank you for sharing all of your information with me, I’ll be happy to share my ideas with you.

First of all, the goals your mentioned are very achievable. Since you are strict on your diet and very experienced in your training then I see no issue in starting a small cycle to help you progress.

I don’t recall giving first cycle advise in any general statement(correct me if I’m wrong) I will only speak for myself and what I know that other pros are taking which is NOT recommend for other people. I like to give advise on a case to case basis because that’s the only way you get the right information.

To help you get your goals (without knowing your current diet, which could affect the cycle) I would try something like this:
GH 2-4iu/day (2iu in morning 45 min before breakfast, 2iu 20min before training session)
*at your age I think the GH can assist in recovery, fat burning and general health
Test-E (250mg/week) 12-16weeks
HCG 250iu every 3rd day
Mast-E 300mg/week 12-16weeks

The testosterone will help you gain mass, strength and help you in your training. The masteron will allow you to keep a “hard” look and it’s a mild anti-estrogen.

I would use the trt guy to monitor your blood tests and hormone profile. I am only going to assume that he will give you less than 250mg/week and in order for any physique improvement you will need a minimum of what I suggested… If he will give you this then by all means go for it! When someone has a perfect diet, training past and good health profile like yourself, I see no reason not to try a cycle like this. It will take you to your goal with ease. You’re 39 with 12 years of training under your belt I’d say you’ve earned your right to give it a shot.
[/quote]

Wow! Thank you so much! Incredibly informative.

4 follow up inquiries about your first cycle recommendation for me.

  1. Estrogen control and PCT. I know you recommended HCG intra cycle. I have a tiny bit of gyno right now. Barely noticeable but it does bother me. I even went to top plastic surgeons in Southern California and they both said it was hardly anything and they refused to do surgery on it they said the risks were not worth it as it was so small. But my point is I am concerned for bitch tits as a result of any cycle. No one else in family has this by the way. I would be grateful at your further thoughts (if any) on a proper intra cycle estrogen side prevention and PCT for me.

  2. Based on your educated guess the cycle which you recommend how often would I have to repeat this to maintain that 190-200 with 10% BF year-round? Once a year. Every other year? I assume there is no such thing as you do one cycle and you are set for 10 years (ha!) so any insight on this with an educated guess would be so helpful. I don’t have any muscle wasting and my metabolism is average to good. I am not shredded year round without training and I am not naturally Dexter Jackson style.

  3. With such “low” dosages of 250 test per week, do you recommend injecting them once per week in the Glute area? Dividing it up to two doses of 125? I am hoping to prevent that 2 day high then feeling lousy with a drop-off the rest of the week until my next injection. Not sure if this is applicable to such low dosages.

Thank you so much again. Please let us know if there is anything I can do to show support even though you prefer to stay anonymous. If there was a Paypal donate or whatever I would contribute for sure as a sign of appreciation.

[quote]yamar1 wrote:
What are your thoughts on Tren A dosing- Every day or every other day?[/quote]

Everyday if you’re willing to pin everyday. It’s the most stable option.

[quote]ztanzanite wrote:
Shadow… Thanks too for helping my questions…!
[/quote]

You’re welcome, the reason I didn’t recommend caber is because im afraid after being shut down for so long that if you go on it might help a little bit while you’re on it but then shut you down even worse. That’s why I advise to try the more conservative route for this case.

[quote]CxTucker wrote:

[quote]yamar1 wrote:
What are your thoughts on Tren A dosing- Every day or every other day?[/quote]

Everyday if you’re willing to pin everyday. It’s the most stable option.[/quote]

Agree 100%