Q & A, PW Style

[quote]pushmepullme wrote:

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Like PMPM mentioned, my biggest indicator is the fit of clothes. I can still fit into the clothes that I wore when I was 125-130 at 140. When my “skinny clothes” don’t fit its because my back, arms, or quads are too big. Not because I’m too fat.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s a good point. I’ve had “skinny” jackets that feel like “fat guy in a little coat” on my back and arms, but close fine on my waist.[/quote]

I can realy only wellfit in clothes that stretch. I have a fifteen inch drop between my shoulders and my waist: 41" shoulders, 26" waist, then back up to 38" for the hips/ass. These measurements are from two months ago though I’m a bit puffy right now. I like TANKTOPS because I don’t hulk out of the shoulders. I have off the rack Dress suits just tucked at the waist and nipped at the jacket waist. Very easy cheap to tailor.

[quote]Cal Jones wrote:
Almost everything is tight on the arms or just under the arms these days. I am carrying some winter fat but it’s not just that. Even the tracksuit top I wear for work is tight on the arms. C’mon, shouldn’t sporty clothes be built for sporty people? Meh…[/quote]

I was wondering the same thing. Who do they cut women’s athletic clothes for? Certainly not women who look like me. The last time I went shopping for “professional” athletic apparel, all I found was t-shirts that cut under my arms and athletic pants that were tight in the legs and too big in the waist.

[quote]Hallowed wrote:

[quote]pushmepullme wrote:

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Like PMPM mentioned, my biggest indicator is the fit of clothes. I can still fit into the clothes that I wore when I was 125-130 at 140. When my “skinny clothes” don’t fit its because my back, arms, or quads are too big. Not because I’m too fat.[/quote]

Yeah, that’s a good point. I’ve had “skinny” jackets that feel like “fat guy in a little coat” on my back and arms, but close fine on my waist.[/quote]

I can realy only wellfit in clothes that stretch. I have a fifteen inch drop between my shoulders and my waist: 41" shoulders, 26" waist, then back up to 38" for the hips/ass. These measurements are from two months ago though I’m a bit puffy right now. I like TANKTOPS because I don’t hulk out of the shoulders. I have off the rack Dress suits just tucked at the waist and nipped at the jacket waist. Very easy cheap to tailor.[/quote]

Stretchy stuff ftmfw! I shamelessly rock leggings, yoga pants, and my awful “jeggings” everywhere.

I have similar measurements (a little bigger in the shoulders/waist) and need a size 8-10 in suit jackets. This wouldn’t be so bad if I wasn’t 5’3. Not only do they end up being too big in the waist, but also in the overall length. And that’s not quite as quick and easy to tailor. Ugh. I guess it’s a good thing I don’t need to wear suits ever.

Yeah, I’m fortunate that, as a PE teacher, I get to wear a tracksuit. Rest of the time I’m in tracky bottoms and yoga pants. I’m such a slob.

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
Terribly sorry but I must disagree with this. Coming only from the perspective of having ALOT of weight to lose. I don’t know if this is the same for someone who has oh ten or fifteen pounds to lose. I dropped from let us say 200LBS to 135LBS in nine months. I made strength/muscle increases that whole time. Including at the end… though gosh I guess the drop from 145LBS to 135LBS I was on pretty strict calorie deficit and DID stop progressing on my lift numbers.
[/quote]

Holy Smokes! I knew you had been through thyroid hell and had commiserated with Mims experience, but I had no idea. Congratulations on taking the weight off. And WOW. I would have guessed that while eating on a deficit, the lifting would help you hold onto more of your lean mass, but that you wouldn’t gain much at all. I’d think strength gains would still happen, since you’d assume some of the beginner gains phenomenon is just getting your body to learn what it can do/ make the neural connections to unleash the unused muscles within! That’s fantastic, Hallowed.

Didn’t know that either. I seem to have been losing and gaining the same 10lbs all my life - I’ve never made a radical transformation but then I’ve never been heavier than 162lbs (at 5’7). I get to a point where clothes are tight and I start to feel disgusted with myself. Then I diet down to a point I feel more comfortable, clothes fit and I am happier. But the problem I have is that I get diet fatigued and stop there, start eating again and goodies make an increasinbly regular appearance in my diet until I’m back to busting out of my jeans again. (And since I wear tracky pants and yoga pants, that can sneak up on me without me noticing).

Just for once I’d like to get some real definition - not just be comfortable with myself but actually start to look awesome. I think the problem is that mentally, I don’t quite believe I can do it, and a dream of six pack abs I’ve never actually had in my life becomes far more remote than the immediate pleasures of, say, gourmet chocolate.

oh boy have I done the up and down. Hallowed! you did have a very drastic change:( I’m so glad your throid stuff is under control now! My Hallowed is amazing!!!

I had to gain 35 pounds in four months when I was really sick as a teen. plumped up then to 169 chubby no muslce got married then dropped down to 140. then up to 165, then dropped 30 pounds over 4 months just being insane in a new country a few years ago…gained 40 back over 3 months when i came home. Dropped 15 in a fit last year. BENCH== has always been the same shitty wt! Clothes still fit because non of my clothes are ever the correct size :{

The only calculated wt loss i’ve done was last year, all others happened in a fit of madness/excitement and other natural forces.

uh… how do you figure how many calories you need? i mean as a rough stab just to get things started appreciating that you probably will need to tweak things down the track.

what would a good macro breakdown be to start off with? i know people play with low carbs etc etc etc but i want to start off pretty basic and get into a routine and leave some tricks up my sleeve for later. so do want to factor in some potatoes and rice to start out (not least because that stuff is a cheap source of calories).

sorry for the dumbass questions. i did a bit of a search but quickly got overwhelmed by too much technical stuffs.

(my math ability is very basic i’ll warn ya)

i’ve decided not to bother tracking what i’m up to now since that varies wildly. for me, i think it might be more about simply planning my shopping list and coming up with meals that are financially feasible and palatable to me.

What I usually do if I am looking for a change (add mass or lose fat, it’s the same process) is first try doing it intuitively, ie) adding more calories and protein for gains or cutting calories to lean up and if I’m not seeing the changes I’m going for I start logging what I’m eating to get a baseline and add or subtract from there. I don’t usually have to resort to logging unless it’s getting stubborn.

It’s not all that technical if you eat cleanish and just look at calories. But I can’t say I eat all that clean. :o) In fact I’m like a garbage disposal. But then when it’s time to cut I just clean it up. Just reducing carbs drops lbs of the scale fairly easily, but that is mostly water – though for my purpose it’s the weight on the scale that matters.

The actual number of calories varies a lot. I don’t figure out how many calories I need, but I look at what I’m currently taking and add or subtract so it’s all relative to my current calorie intake, not something I’ve figured out with any math.

hmm…

i tend to swing between not eating much and eating what i’m pretty sure is far too much. so… i need to get a handle on roughly how many calories i need and break that into meals and get the hang of what a meal size looks like.

i’m particularly concerned that i get enough protein.

would be happy to figure around how much calories to maintain at this weight then hopefully figure how to increase lean muscle mass at this weight…

I think the only way to get that number is to log what you’re eating for a bit and then tweak it until you find you’re progressing to your goal. I don’t think there is much value in calculating it based on arbitrary values.

I eat close to 3000 calories a day a lot of the time. There is no formula justification for that other than it’s working :=) I wouldn’t even know where to start to figure out what 20 Clean & jerks are worth, which is pretty much the kind of math you would have to do to calculate your needs. If I had to guess I’d say a 10oz steak :wink:

Protein is easy to figure out if you just aim for more than 1 gram/lb of bodyweight.

[quote]debraD wrote:
Protein is easy to figure out if you just aim for more than 1 gram/lb of bodyweight. [/quote]

so, uh, how many grams of protein for roughly 62.5 kg of bodyweight?

:-/

dammit.

138?

Alexus: Here are a couple articles I really like that help to keep it simple.

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/tailor_made_1.htm

Calorie calculations (this is the massive eating version, I believe if you want to make it non massive you drop the last step)

http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/masseating_1.htm

[quote]debraD wrote:
It’s not all that technical if you eat cleanish and just look at calories. But I can’t say I eat all that clean. :o) In fact I’m like a garbage disposal. But then when it’s time to cut I just clean it up. Just reducing carbs drops lbs of the scale fairly easily, but that is mostly water – though for my purpose it’s the weight on the scale that matters.
[/quote]
x2

[quote]debraD wrote:

I eat close to 3000 calories a day a lot of the time. There is no formula justification for that other than it’s working [/quote]
This is probably about what I eat.

Resting metabolism varies from person to person as well. Some of us run on high speed while others run frustratingly low.

you can track your food for a couple days(using fitday for ex) just to get a rough idea of what you are already taking in.
If you are maintaining on that, then eat more/less to lose/gain

:slight_smile:

Another way is to figure out how much protein/fat/carbs you will have and count macros instead.

1 gram of protein=4cal
1 gram Carb= 4cal
1 gram of Fat= 9 cals

so 140P
150C
80F
is 1880 cals…

[quote]Powerpuff wrote:

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
Terribly sorry but I must disagree with this. Coming only from the perspective of having ALOT of weight to lose. I don’t know if this is the same for someone who has oh ten or fifteen pounds to lose. I dropped from let us say 200LBS to 135LBS in nine months. I made strength/muscle increases that whole time. Including at the end… though gosh I guess the drop from 145LBS to 135LBS I was on pretty strict calorie deficit and DID stop progressing on my lift numbers.
[/quote]

Holy Smokes! I knew you had been through thyroid hell and had commiserated with Mims experience, but I had no idea. Congratulations on taking the weight off. And WOW. I would have guessed that while eating on a deficit, the lifting would help you hold onto more of your lean mass, but that you wouldn’t gain much at all. I’d think strength gains would still happen, since you’d assume some of the beginner gains phenomenon is just getting your body to learn what it can do/ make the neural connections to unleash the unused muscles within! That’s fantastic, Hallowed.

[/quote]

Awwww thank you! I like consciously remember that the whole thing happened to me… i remember that I used to be sick and tired and fat… but it also seems completely unreal also.

I saw a co-worker that I hadn’t seen in a long time and she just freaked out “Don’t you feel DIFFERENT” well no, I mean I was an athletic kid, athletic in college, sexy, etc… I never relaly SAW myself as fat no matter how big I got… plus with hypo the mental effects are legitimate and the brain fog… well. its foggy. SO, I’m consciously aware and remember that it happened but it also seems unreal and feels removed from mySELF.

That maybe makes no sense LOL.

As far as newbie gains… TOTALLY that is what it was I just see newbie gains in a WAY different light. I really believe that for the first year OR MORE you can massively gain strength WHILE shedding fat. For real. Eat at a deficit and lift (I’m talking people that are REALLY overweight) if/when that stops working is when you look for something trickier

If you bust your ass and don’t skimp on PROTEIN you can ride that newbie train all the way to victory station.

/endcheesefest

Looks like the Alexus Q is well in hand. I second the girls that said track for a few days and see wher you are. After that I would keep it simple and general. For me that looks like alot of kinda repetitive meals.

Protein… if you’re lifting heavy you almost can’t eat too much. I mean 200g on lifting days is FINE.

I would start with how many meals a day you want to eat, then just dump macros into them that will be easy to accomodate.

So for example it is most realistic for me to eat five times a day. I will show you how I would build a lifting day as an example.

THE BUILDING BLOCKS ARE:
Protein - about 4oz or 100g cooked meat OR two whole eggs OR 6-8 egg whites
Carbs - Whatever comes out to 100-150 calories and 20-25g of carbs, rice tortilla, 1/2 cup of oatmeal, 1/2 cup cooked rice, whatever bread/tortilla/roll you can cram into those macros is a go!
fruit - 80-100 cals 20-25g carbs
Vegetables - unlimited
Fats - 100-200cals (this varies depending what you choose) and about 15gfat per item, so 1tbs olive oil, 1oz nut butter, 1oz raw nuts, 1tbs butter etc. etc. etc.

SO, here is my sample day:

I HAVE STARBUCKS EVERY WORK MORNING: I put 1/2 and 1/2 in my Starbucks. I don’t go nuts but I count this as 2fluid ounces to make sure its counted.

Meal 1: Protein and Carbs & fruit
Protein 100g (cooked weight) of chicken will give you *about 160 calories and 26-30g of protein
Carbs 1packet instant cream of wheat will give you 80 calories and 16g of carbs and 2g of protein
I like to use unsweetened Almond Breeze with my Cereal that is 42cals 3gfat,negligible carbs and protein
Medium Apple is 70cals 20g carbs

Play around with your options here. can be eggs in a tortilla or hamburger on an english muffin or a scoop of whey protein mixed into oatmeal. Check out your options. This meal should come in around 350-400 cals and roughly 30g of protein and 15-35ishg of carbs. You will arrive at basically these same macros by sticking with one protein one carb one fruit

Meal 2: Protein and Carbs and fat
I am VERY BORING here. Its always cooked chicken breast on a Rice Tortilla with hecka baby lettuces and some sort of moistening agent.
100g cooked chicken is 165cals and 30g protein
Food For Life Rice Tortilla is 130 cals, 24carbs, 2 protein
Olive Oil Based Salad Dressing is around 100 cals 15g pf fat

Play around with your options here but the macros will come out similar to meal one PLUS the added fat from the dressing. So this meal will total more like 350 cals, 30g protein, 15g of fat
(I DONT COUNT CARBS FROM LETTUCE)

Meal 3: Protein and Fat or Protein and Carbs
Oh yay! Protein and fat snack!
For me this is a smaller filler snacky type meal. I like greek yogurt. Cottage cheese is agood option, love that stuff!
1 single serving fat free Fage greek Yogurt is 100 calories, 13g protein, 9g carbs
1/2 scoop Whey Protein Powder is 60calories 12g protein 2g carbs
1oz almond butter is 179cals, 16g fat 6g protein 4g carbs
Yes these taste DELICIOUS mixed together into a pudding. So you can do meat and cheese… meat and a few crackers… cottage cheese and nuts etc. mix it up. Macros will be varied on this one but calories will be about 350, 20g fat, and then it will be more protein or more carbs mine comes to 20g of protein, 6g carbs

Meal 4: Protein & vegetables This is hella straight forward
4oz lean ground beef (94/6) (112g cooked weight) and gives you 140cals, 24g protein, 4g of fat
eat some vegetables too. I don’t count vegetables as anything really. If you’re dieting do some butter buds or mrs. dash on your vegetables. If you want to add some fat do a drizzle of olive oil for 100cals and 15g of fat.

Meal 5: protein & vegetables (I TRY to avoid late night carbs)
Protein & vegetables This is hella straight forward
4oz lean ground beef (94/6) is 112g and gives you 140cals, 24g protein, 4g of fat
eat some vegetables too. I don’t count vegetables as anything really. If you’re dieting do some butter buds or mrs. dash on your vegetables. If you want to add some fat do a drizzle of olive oil for 100cals and 15g of fat.

Play around with this you can obviously do eggs, fish, shellfish, Frakking Tofu if you want, lamb, pork etc etc etc. 4 oz of meat and some vegetables. Too many meals? Combine this into one BIG dinner 8oz meat (224g cooked weight) and vegetables with or without added fat for an option 100-200cals and option 15-30g fat

PWO Meal: THIS IS A SEPARTE MEAL that is only eat on lifting days. For ME this consists of a whey protein shake made with unsweetened almond breeze and 1 scoop of whey protein. This goes into your day wherever it fits within 30minutes after lifting. I also ADD what my coach called a Post Workout Treat. This is ANYTHING LOW FAT HIGH CARB whatever you want but it should be 160-200 cals and around 30g of carbs. For this example I am using a skinny cow caramel cone 150cals, 30g of carbs. This is also consumed within 30min of lifting.

If you don’t want to eat garbage add some pure powdered carbs to your PWO Protein shake.

SO, There is my total sample lifting day:
Total calories Total calories-1,822 fat-77.0 carbs-113.1 protein-167.1

This can easily be mainupulated by adding carbs/proteins/fats to the basic meal structure OR taking them away to get higher lower calories/fats/proteins/carbs etc.

That was probably fucking clear as mud LOL.
Just think basic building blocks and go from there.

awesome! thanks for the terrific comments people. will follow them up and report back. boring isn’t bad at all - boring is TERRIFIC. i’d be totally stoked for things to be boring as hell to start with. then i can figure substitutions…

glad to hear people talking about around 3,000 cals. when i see what people are eating… i think i’m more on that side of things, too. especially when its heavy squat day or whatever.

i’ve been checking out fitday.com a bit, too. so i can get the hang of what protein is found in what stuffs. peas are pretty high. whoda thunk??

Peas carrots and corn are carbs not vegetables… sad :frowning:

My favorite part of fitday is the custom foods. I’m got all my regular foods loaded in there right off the labels… this may ALSO contribute to repetetive meals. Repetitive is good for me also ESPECIALLY when I’m dieting. Helps switch into food as fuel… instead of food as entertainment LOL.

[quote]Hallowed wrote:
Peas carrots and corn are carbs not vegetables… sad :frowning:

My favorite part of fitday is the custom foods. I’m got all my regular foods loaded in there right off the labels… this may ALSO contribute to repetetive meals. Repetitive is good for me also ESPECIALLY when I’m dieting. Helps switch into food as fuel… instead of food as entertainment LOL.[/quote]

I know!! So sad about peas, carrots and corn. They’re actually pretty high on the sugar scale, hence why they taste so good!

I like the repetitiveness of meals when I’m dieting, too. Keeps life easy and keeps me out of trouble.

i thought all vegetables were carbs… peas carrots and corn might be higher in carbs than other vegetables… but peas are still higher in protein - yeah?