I think some of you miss the intention behind the minimum wage: it is an ANTI-BUSINESS policy intended to impose arbitrary expenses on entrepreneurs to hamstring their operations. The leftists who push for the minimum don’t give two shits about the unskilled people whose lives are ruined when they lose their entry points into the workforce and become permanently unemployable. Leftists are anti-capitalist haters who are wiling to destroy the poor and make more people poor to get at their target (the rich).
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I think to have a minimum wage that is lower than what welfare pays is just what you say the Dems are doing and I lay this ridiculously low minimum wage as you say Growing a Welfare state
I totally agree that this two party system is fucking the dog . We need to find a way to get rid of the 2 party system
[/quote]
Do you believe one, by being born, is entitled to that which is owned by another? Both a government-mandated minimum wage and government welfare are wrong. Neither should exist.[/quote]
Yes , I belive being born in AMERICA means something. You want to live in a Country that has no regulations ,move there , Don’t live in a functioning GOV and say "I WANT TO IMPOSE < MY IGNORANCE ON EVERY ONE " and expect all of us to go OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Most liberals won’t admit that a growing welfare state disincentives work for some people (not all), and most conservatives won’t admit that they don’t have solid solutions to put into place right now in the absence of some of those things that wouldn’t also lead to bad unintended consequences.
If either side could nut up and have a discussion like we have many times on here then maybe we could get some stuff figured out. The two party system doesn’t really like that so we get:
[/quote]
I think to have a minimum wage that is lower than what welfare pays is just what you say the Dems are doing and I lay this ridiculously low minimum wage as you say Growing a Welfare state
I totally agree that this two party system is fucking the dog . We need to find a way to get rid of the 2 party system
[/quote]
Are you sure this is true on the whole?
I haven’t read this article (just googled quickly).
http://scientopia.org/blogs/authority/2013/08/21/no-cato-welfare-doesnt-pay-more-than-minimum-wage/
This one says 35 states pay better (also haven’t read it in full):
First link I believe attacks the Cato study, but I will be honest these are both from lighting quick google searches and I have to take the fiance out in a little bit so I lack time.
I think saying welfare pays better than minimum wage is either false or not true in all cases. Welfare is going to be significantly different based on numerous factors so the idea that welfare always pays better than a minimum wage job is probably erroneous not to mention some of the benefits that MAY still come with a minimum wage job aside from the pay.
Welfare pays better than minimum wage is a blanket statement that is incorrect at face value. Though it may pay much better in SOME situations. Never been on welfare and haven’t had a min wage job in many years so I haven’t researched either in full yet. [/quote]
I have to be honest , I normally go no further than google
[quote]H factor wrote:
Welfare pays better than minimum wage is a blanket statement that is incorrect [/quote]
then why can you live on welfare and not minimum wage ?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Yes , I belive being born in AMERICA means something. You want to live in a Country that has no regulations ,move there , Don’t live in a functioning GOV and say "I WANT TO IMPOSE < MY IGNORANCE ON EVERY ONE " and expect all of us to go OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[/quote]
I didn’t ask if you believe one group can rob another; I asked if you believe one is entitled(I probably should have asked if one has a right…) to that which is owned by another. No matter how closely you zoom in on this photograph, you will never see a United States, China, Mexico, or Russia. What you will(if you could zoom in close enough) see is individuals.
Of course, it can always be argued that nothing can be owned by anyone. That would obviously result in the immediate death of everyone. If we decide that things can be owned by individuals, then ownership of things can only justly be transferred either voluntarily or by enslavement of some by others.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
I asked if you believe one is entitled(I probably should have a asked if one has a right…) to that which is owned by another.
[/quote]
Every Society that has organization has always had taxes . It is disinformation to infer or to state that it is something different than TAX
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
I asked if you believe one is entitled(I probably should have a asked if one has a right…) to that which is owned by another.
[/quote]
Every Society that has organization has always had taxes . It is disinformation to infer or to state that it is something different than TAX
[/quote]
I’m not sure I understand your response. A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s belongings. I don’t believe I’ve ever said otherwise. You can say it’s just the way things are, but don’t pretend it’s something other than tyranny.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
[/quote]
Search for “tax definition” on Google. The very first result should be a box with the word “tax” in it. It will contain two definitions for the word, neither of which matches yours.
Number one will be: a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers’ income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
Number two will be: a strain or heavy demand.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
[/quote]
Search for “tax definition” on Google. The very first result should be a box with the word “tax” in it. It will contain two definitions for the word, neither of which matches yours.
Number one will be: a compulsory contribution to state revenue, levied by the government on workers’ income and business profits or added to the cost of some goods, services, and transactions.
Number two will be: a strain or heavy demand.[/quote]
Yes but you didn’t respond to the meat of his post. It may be one of the few lucid posts I’ve ever seen him make, and it is a good one.
The world you have described does not exist, and has never existed.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Welfare pays better than minimum wage is a blanket statement that is incorrect [/quote]
then why can you live on welfare and not minimum wage ?
[/quote]
? Where is this idea coming from? You can probably actually live on much less than welfare or minimum wage. See homeless people.
If minimum wage actually pays better than welfare then how can you live on welfare, but not minimum wage? Does not compute.
If we are talking about quality of life that may be another story, but one can “live” on minimum wage. Have you heard of massive amounts of deaths of minimum wage workers?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.[/quote]
yes a good post until you consider how well the country did without income taxes.
and the welfare state as we know it today basically began under Lyndon Johnson and has only served to create more poor. the war on poverty has failed more miserably than the war on drugs.
there was less crime not more, before the welfare programs allowed people not to work. welfare check and food stamps means you don’t have to huslte to find that next job. more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.[/quote]
yes a good post until you consider how well the country did without income taxes.
and the welfare state as we know it today basically began under Lyndon Johnson and has only served to create more poor. the war on poverty has failed more miserably than the war on drugs.
there was less crime not more, before the welfare programs allowed people not to work. welfare check and food stamps means you don’t have to huslte to find that next job. more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[/quote]
How well did the country do without the income tax?
I’m not going to argue about welfare, again. I like the safety net it provides, but not the abuse that comes with it. It’s a poorly construed system.
If you want me to believe you, you’ll have to show me some sort of data that correlates higher welfare and higher crime.
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[/quote]
Or more posting on internet forums.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.[/quote]
yes a good post until you consider how well the country did without income taxes.
and the welfare state as we know it today basically began under Lyndon Johnson and has only served to create more poor. the war on poverty has failed more miserably than the war on drugs.
there was less crime not more, before the welfare programs allowed people not to work. welfare check and food stamps means you don’t have to huslte to find that next job. more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[/quote]
How well did the country do without the income tax?
I’m not going to argue about welfare, again. I like the safety net it provides, but not the abuse that comes with it. It’s a poorly construed system.
If you want me to believe you, you’ll have to show me some sort of data that correlates higher welfare and higher crime. [/quote]
This graph’s time period corresponds pretty closely with the rise of the welfare-warfare state/income tax. The population of the U.S. has slightly less than tripled in the same time period.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
This graph’s time period corresponds pretty closely with the rise of the welfare-warfare state/income tax. The population of the U.S. has slightly less than tripled in the same time period. [/quote]
Oh come on. That graph’s time period closely corresponds with a LOT of things, not just the welfare state. In fact it corresponds much MORE closely with the war on drugs. If you want evidence you’d better be more thorough than that. I don’t even disagree with the underlying idea as much as this is just shoddy lazy reasoning.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.[/quote]
yes a good post until you consider how well the country did without income taxes.
and the welfare state as we know it today basically began under Lyndon Johnson and has only served to create more poor. the war on poverty has failed more miserably than the war on drugs.
there was less crime not more, before the welfare programs allowed people not to work. welfare check and food stamps means you don’t have to huslte to find that next job. more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[/quote]
How well did the country do without the income tax?
I’m not going to argue about welfare, again. I like the safety net it provides, but not the abuse that comes with it. It’s a poorly construed system.
If you want me to believe you, you’ll have to show me some sort of data that correlates higher welfare and higher crime. [/quote]
This graph’s time period corresponds pretty closely with the rise of the welfare-warfare state/income tax. The population of the U.S. has slightly less than tripled in the same time period. [/quote]
I like the clear picture of Nancy’s just say no policy (the new Jim Crow 
Have at it Dog .
In RE: to welfare matching the pace , the majority is mecicare and cade . Over all Health Care has been sky rocketing since The Insuarce industry got involved
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]conservativedog wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
A tax is nothing more than one group confiscating another’s [/quote]
No a tax is a price we pay to live in a society that have the amenities we like.
It may be hard to fathom , but if we did not have a welfare program we would have a lot more crime , we would have to bolster our Police . People DO HAVE TO EAT
Believe it or not most of those people and businesses want to live where their market is protected ,where it has the potential to flourish . They want to live in an educated society and don’t want to see people dying on the streets.
I could definitely agree that we are over taxed . But the best way for us to address that would be to speak with one voice . But we all have to agree on what we can change .
If we fight over stupid shit we will never get to the matter
Taxes are a necessary evil.
[/quote]
Good post Pitt.[/quote]
yes a good post until you consider how well the country did without income taxes.
and the welfare state as we know it today basically began under Lyndon Johnson and has only served to create more poor. the war on poverty has failed more miserably than the war on drugs.
there was less crime not more, before the welfare programs allowed people not to work. welfare check and food stamps means you don’t have to huslte to find that next job. more idle time on your hands = more crime.
[/quote]
How well did the country do without the income tax?
I’m not going to argue about welfare, again. I like the safety net it provides, but not the abuse that comes with it. It’s a poorly construed system.
If you want me to believe you, you’ll have to show me some sort of data that correlates higher welfare and higher crime. [/quote]
This graph’s time period corresponds pretty closely with the rise of the welfare-warfare state/income tax. The population of the U.S. has slightly less than tripled in the same time period. [/quote]
Doesn’t mention welfare.