Puppycide in Austin

Off Topic
121

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I guess that poor woman bleeds out somewhere else now.

Because he had some dog killing to do and bullshitting to do.

Just to stay in that scenario.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s it. He decided to take a detour to go kill himself some white man’s black hating dog. Maybe it was to get back at the Zimmerman/Martin thing. [/quote]

It does not matter why he did it.

While he decided to take out that clear and imminent danger, some woman, somewhere, got beaten to a pulp with a tire iron by a supposedly armed man.

Because, if we like make up scenarios to excuse an armed thugs mo, we shall look at all the consequences. [/quote]
And when looking at consequences, we should accurately assign blame to those who directly caused them.

Whoever sent the cop on a goose chase is to blame, not the cop.

Blaming the officer is like throwing a match on the carpet instead of in the fireplace and then blaming the match for burning a house down.[/quote]

He threatened an unarmed man.

The man had his hands in the air.

He ordered said unarmed man to get his dog, the shot it before said man could possibly do so.

I dont care if the toothfairy told him that there was a whole stash of teeth under that guys daughters pillow.

I dont know about you, but I dont come from a nation where anyone in uniform is seen as a mystical being.

He eats, sleeps and shits like all the rest of us and he royally fucked up and piled some bs on top of it.

Which is when his sergeant apparently decided to pile even more on.

No.

You will never convince someone who grew up in a moderately free country that this was ok.

Go find some Syrian immigrant, he will be grateful that the cop did not rape the guy with a golf club.

122

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?

123

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

Because cops are put into the kinds of situations where accidents can happen at a much higher frequency than your average Joe.

124

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

  1. Training - How many innocent victims get guns pointed at them? Have you ever had a cop point his gun at you?
  2. Reasonable doubt or suspicion - Cops are faced with unpredictable situations with often volatile people.
  3. It is not lower it is higher but you act as though cops are pulling their guns out on soccer moms. They are there for a reason and usually it is not a good one.
125

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I guess that poor woman bleeds out somewhere else now.

Because he had some dog killing to do and bullshitting to do.

Just to stay in that scenario.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s it. He decided to take a detour to go kill himself some white man’s black hating dog. Maybe it was to get back at the Zimmerman/Martin thing. [/quote]

It does not matter why he did it.

While he decided to take out that clear and imminent danger, some woman, somewhere, got beaten to a pulp with a tire iron by a supposedly armed man.

Because, if we like make up scenarios to excuse an armed thugs mo, we shall look at all the consequences. [/quote]
And when looking at consequences, we should accurately assign blame to those who directly caused them.

Whoever sent the cop on a goose chase is to blame, not the cop.

Blaming the officer is like throwing a match on the carpet instead of in the fireplace and then blaming the match for burning a house down.[/quote]

He threatened an unarmed man.

The man had his hands in the air.

He ordered said unarmed man to get his dog, the shot it before said man could possibly do so.

I dont care if the toothfairy told him that there was a whole stash of teeth under that guys daughters pillow.

I dont know about you, but I dont come from a nation where anyone in uniform is seen as a mystical being.

He eats, sleeps and shits like all the rest of us and he royally fucked up and piled some bs on top of it.

Which is when his sergeant apparently decided to pile even more on.

No.

You will never convince someone who grew up in a moderately free country that this was ok.

Go find some Syrian immigrant, he will be grateful that the cop did not rape the guy with a golf club.

[/quote]
Put yourself in the cops shoes. Without the use of hindsight, explain how you would’ve handled the situation.

Remember:

  1. You were called to a violent, life threatening scene
  2. You reasonably believe you are at the right place
  3. You reasonably believe the violator is in the yard
  4. You do not know what he may or may not have concealed
  5. You do not know how critical unseen aspects of the situation are but you are responsible for handling the situation
  6. A dog is approaching you
  7. You do not have back up.
126

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

  1. Training - How many innocent victims get guns pointed at them? Have you ever had a cop point his gun at you?

[/quote]
Again, pointing a gun at someone without an immediate threat is a crime. The person held at gunpoint is a victim. They have been wronged. Training doesn’t change this. Training can apparently even cause it.

No, but I have been threatened with one and threatened with getting the “shit kicked out of me” by one with a gun on his hip.

And it happens a lot. Or at the minimum far too often.

Lots of people are. Cops or not cops. An ordinary person in an unpredictable and volatile situation faces a higher standard and harsher penalties for a mistake, too.

No, they are able to mistakenly pull a gun on someone without legal repercussion. That is a lower standard.

They do draw on soccer moms or even innocent unsuspecting guys just walking to their trucks in their own driveways.

And this “reason” was an incorrect 911 call.

127

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

  1. Training - How many innocent victims get guns pointed at them? Have you ever had a cop point his gun at you?

[/quote]
Again, pointing a gun at someone without an immediate threat is a crime. The person held at gunpoint is a victim. They have been wronged. Training doesn’t change this. Training can apparently even cause it.

No, but I have been threatened with one and threatened with getting the “shit kicked out of me” by one with a gun on his hip.

And it happens a lot. Or at the minimum far too often.

Lots of people are. Cops or not cops. An ordinary person in an unpredictable and volatile situation faces a higher standard and harsher penalties for a mistake, too.

No, they are able to mistakenly pull a gun on someone without legal repercussion. That is a lower standard.

They do draw on soccer moms or even innocent unsuspecting guys just walking to their trucks in their own driveways.

And this “reason” was an incorrect 911 call. [/quote]

Why would they want to kick the shit out of you?

128

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

  1. Training - How many innocent victims get guns pointed at them? Have you ever had a cop point his gun at you?

[/quote]
Again, pointing a gun at someone without an immediate threat is a crime. The person held at gunpoint is a victim. They have been wronged. Training doesn’t change this. Training can apparently even cause it.

No, but I have been threatened with one and threatened with getting the “shit kicked out of me” by one with a gun on his hip.

And it happens a lot. Or at the minimum far too often.

Lots of people are. Cops or not cops. An ordinary person in an unpredictable and volatile situation faces a higher standard and harsher penalties for a mistake, too.

No, they are able to mistakenly pull a gun on someone without legal repercussion. That is a lower standard.

They do draw on soccer moms or even innocent unsuspecting guys just walking to their trucks in their own driveways.

And this “reason” was an incorrect 911 call. [/quote]
Your third point negates your first and you’d have to be full retard to honestly not see the difference between a day in the life of a cop and an ordinary citizen.

Why don’t you give some examples for discussion.

129

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:
Not sure what everyone else thinks challenging him is but when a dog comes at you like this most people would think it is going to bite you.
[/quote]

Totally - I’m sure it was absolutely necessary to blow that fuckin dog away since he could have received a little bite on his leg.

It’s not like he could have chosen a less aggressive route - like maybe pepper spray or say not walking into the (completely innocent/had NOTHING to do with the actual complaint) guys yard with his gun drawn - loaded for proverbial bear.

Excuses and bullshit - another overly-aggressive cop who does some sick, fucked up shit (you know, like blasting a huge hole in the family dog right in the owner’s driveway here in the goddamned good ole US of A) and then acts COMPLETELY unaccountable for it.

I guaran-fucking-tee if something like this ever happened to you I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. It’s horrible when your home is invaded like that and then even more so (after this prick points his gun at the totally innocent guy - cause that was necessary too I’m sure - guy probably had a garden hose in his hand after all) brutally kills a beloved family dog. Yea, that’s not traumatic at all. [/quote]

Once again someone who has no real experience in the situation saying they could have done something different. He was responding to a violent situation, came up on someone who very well could have been the violator, a dog came around the corner barking and coming toward him. A decision had to be made - do it get bit and risk having to dog continue to bite me while this person who may have just violently assaulted his girlfriend uses the opportunity to attack me as well. (remembering that every time a cop shows up they bring a gun the the situation) or do I address the threat. I am not acting cavalier about it. I have said numerous times the cop made a mistake in how he dealt with the aftermath. Sorry but if it had happened to me I would feel badly for my dog (see the avatar) and realize how the situation went down from the other viewpoint.
[/quote]

In Tennesse, I can have someone punching me in the face and break my nose and it doesn’t legally constitute a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. But you are right a dog, on it’s own property, barking at me, fear of serious bodily harm?

And for the record, he was responding to the report of an alleged violent situation. He was not, in fact responding to an actually violent situation.

I wonder what would happen if we broke down doors and flowed water when we just had reports of fire (probably 80-90% of fire calls), but no actual confirmation.[/quote]
Well, you sure as shit wouldn’t get shot in the face for being wrong.[/quote]

If we mistakenly broke down the door of a house not on fire or did other serious structural damage, you don’t think we would be confronted with a possibly armed and irate (justifiably so) home owner?

130

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:
Not sure what everyone else thinks challenging him is but when a dog comes at you like this most people would think it is going to bite you.
[/quote]

Totally - I’m sure it was absolutely necessary to blow that fuckin dog away since he could have received a little bite on his leg.

It’s not like he could have chosen a less aggressive route - like maybe pepper spray or say not walking into the (completely innocent/had NOTHING to do with the actual complaint) guys yard with his gun drawn - loaded for proverbial bear.

Excuses and bullshit - another overly-aggressive cop who does some sick, fucked up shit (you know, like blasting a huge hole in the family dog right in the owner’s driveway here in the goddamned good ole US of A) and then acts COMPLETELY unaccountable for it.

I guaran-fucking-tee if something like this ever happened to you I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. It’s horrible when your home is invaded like that and then even more so (after this prick points his gun at the totally innocent guy - cause that was necessary too I’m sure - guy probably had a garden hose in his hand after all) brutally kills a beloved family dog. Yea, that’s not traumatic at all. [/quote]

Once again someone who has no real experience in the situation saying they could have done something different. He was responding to a violent situation, came up on someone who very well could have been the violator, a dog came around the corner barking and coming toward him. A decision had to be made - do it get bit and risk having to dog continue to bite me while this person who may have just violently assaulted his girlfriend uses the opportunity to attack me as well. (remembering that every time a cop shows up they bring a gun the the situation) or do I address the threat. I am not acting cavalier about it. I have said numerous times the cop made a mistake in how he dealt with the aftermath. Sorry but if it had happened to me I would feel badly for my dog (see the avatar) and realize how the situation went down from the other viewpoint.
[/quote]

In Tennesse, I can have someone punching me in the face and break my nose and it doesn’t legally constitute a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. But you are right a dog, on it’s own property, barking at me, fear of serious bodily harm?

And for the record, he was responding to the report of an alleged violent situation. He was not, in fact responding to an actually violent situation.

I wonder what would happen if we broke down doors and flowed water when we just had reports of fire (probably 80-90% of fire calls), but no actual confirmation.[/quote]
Well, you sure as shit wouldn’t get shot in the face for being wrong.[/quote]

If we mistakenly broke down the door of a house not on fire or did other serious structural damage, you don’t think we would be confronted with a possibly armed and irate (justifiably so) home owner?[/quote]

No, only cops face guns.

Pizza guys never, ever get robbed.

Like, never.

131

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

“I would really have to argue that one. I am not in TN but the law is the law pretty much everywhere. If you are getting beaten and can argue that you are in reasonable fear of your life you can take action to protect yourself. This being said, in must be reasonable so if a small woman has broken your nose you cannot shoot her, but if you are a large man and break a small woman’s nose and continue to beat her she can ague reasonable fear of loss of life.”

You’d lose here. A broken nose while getting beaten up is not legally sufficient.

“That is brandishing a firearm and is illegal in every state.”

It is aggravated assault in TN. And it isn’t illegal everywhere, unless you are saying this cop should be charged with it. He pulled a gun on an unarmed and nonthreatening person who he didn’t know to have done anything at all wrong.
[/quote]

He pulled his gun based on the info he had. Not sure how many people you have seen get arrested but guns when there is an element of violence - DV call.

You may be correct State Laws can be very strange in some areas. I live in AR and there are some very old laws on the books still. The violation of brandishing a firearm does not apply when in the line of duty. I know of a cop who off duty was being hazed by a bunch of HS kids following him and yelling for him to get out of the car. He pulled his weapon and showed it thru the window, not pointing directly at them, but he was charged and eventually fired. Cops are not above the law and several loose their jobs for doing stupid stuff.
[/quote]

Why is it less harmful to the innocent victim to be at gunpoint by a cop vs. a non-cop? Why is there immunity for cops pulling on an innocent un-armed, non-threatening person?
Why the lower standard?[/quote]

  1. Training - How many innocent victims get guns pointed at them? Have you ever had a cop point his gun at you?

[/quote]
Again, pointing a gun at someone without an immediate threat is a crime. The person held at gunpoint is a victim. They have been wronged. Training doesn’t change this. Training can apparently even cause it.

No, but I have been threatened with one and threatened with getting the “shit kicked out of me” by one with a gun on his hip.

And it happens a lot. Or at the minimum far too often.

Lots of people are. Cops or not cops. An ordinary person in an unpredictable and volatile situation faces a higher standard and harsher penalties for a mistake, too.

No, they are able to mistakenly pull a gun on someone without legal repercussion. That is a lower standard.

They do draw on soccer moms or even innocent unsuspecting guys just walking to their trucks in their own driveways.

And this “reason” was an incorrect 911 call. [/quote]

Why would they want to kick the shit out of you?
[/quote]

Because I was young and had a fuck up brother who used to live at the house I was in?

132

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:
Not sure what everyone else thinks challenging him is but when a dog comes at you like this most people would think it is going to bite you.
[/quote]

Totally - I’m sure it was absolutely necessary to blow that fuckin dog away since he could have received a little bite on his leg.

It’s not like he could have chosen a less aggressive route - like maybe pepper spray or say not walking into the (completely innocent/had NOTHING to do with the actual complaint) guys yard with his gun drawn - loaded for proverbial bear.

Excuses and bullshit - another overly-aggressive cop who does some sick, fucked up shit (you know, like blasting a huge hole in the family dog right in the owner’s driveway here in the goddamned good ole US of A) and then acts COMPLETELY unaccountable for it.

I guaran-fucking-tee if something like this ever happened to you I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. It’s horrible when your home is invaded like that and then even more so (after this prick points his gun at the totally innocent guy - cause that was necessary too I’m sure - guy probably had a garden hose in his hand after all) brutally kills a beloved family dog. Yea, that’s not traumatic at all. [/quote]

Once again someone who has no real experience in the situation saying they could have done something different. He was responding to a violent situation, came up on someone who very well could have been the violator, a dog came around the corner barking and coming toward him. A decision had to be made - do it get bit and risk having to dog continue to bite me while this person who may have just violently assaulted his girlfriend uses the opportunity to attack me as well. (remembering that every time a cop shows up they bring a gun the the situation) or do I address the threat. I am not acting cavalier about it. I have said numerous times the cop made a mistake in how he dealt with the aftermath. Sorry but if it had happened to me I would feel badly for my dog (see the avatar) and realize how the situation went down from the other viewpoint.
[/quote]

In Tennesse, I can have someone punching me in the face and break my nose and it doesn’t legally constitute a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. But you are right a dog, on it’s own property, barking at me, fear of serious bodily harm?

And for the record, he was responding to the report of an alleged violent situation. He was not, in fact responding to an actually violent situation.

I wonder what would happen if we broke down doors and flowed water when we just had reports of fire (probably 80-90% of fire calls), but no actual confirmation.[/quote]
Well, you sure as shit wouldn’t get shot in the face for being wrong.[/quote]

If we mistakenly broke down the door of a house not on fire or did other serious structural damage, you don’t think we would be confronted with a possibly armed and irate (justifiably so) home owner?[/quote]

No, only cops face guns.

Pizza guys never, ever get robbed.

Like, never. [/quote]

Well, when we start sending pizza boys to apprehend violent perps and rescue victims, we’ll issue them a sidearm along with that zip-up thing that keeps the pizza warm.

133

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:
Not sure what everyone else thinks challenging him is but when a dog comes at you like this most people would think it is going to bite you.
[/quote]

Totally - I’m sure it was absolutely necessary to blow that fuckin dog away since he could have received a little bite on his leg.

It’s not like he could have chosen a less aggressive route - like maybe pepper spray or say not walking into the (completely innocent/had NOTHING to do with the actual complaint) guys yard with his gun drawn - loaded for proverbial bear.

Excuses and bullshit - another overly-aggressive cop who does some sick, fucked up shit (you know, like blasting a huge hole in the family dog right in the owner’s driveway here in the goddamned good ole US of A) and then acts COMPLETELY unaccountable for it.

I guaran-fucking-tee if something like this ever happened to you I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. It’s horrible when your home is invaded like that and then even more so (after this prick points his gun at the totally innocent guy - cause that was necessary too I’m sure - guy probably had a garden hose in his hand after all) brutally kills a beloved family dog. Yea, that’s not traumatic at all. [/quote]

Once again someone who has no real experience in the situation saying they could have done something different. He was responding to a violent situation, came up on someone who very well could have been the violator, a dog came around the corner barking and coming toward him. A decision had to be made - do it get bit and risk having to dog continue to bite me while this person who may have just violently assaulted his girlfriend uses the opportunity to attack me as well. (remembering that every time a cop shows up they bring a gun the the situation) or do I address the threat. I am not acting cavalier about it. I have said numerous times the cop made a mistake in how he dealt with the aftermath. Sorry but if it had happened to me I would feel badly for my dog (see the avatar) and realize how the situation went down from the other viewpoint.
[/quote]

In Tennesse, I can have someone punching me in the face and break my nose and it doesn’t legally constitute a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. But you are right a dog, on it’s own property, barking at me, fear of serious bodily harm?

And for the record, he was responding to the report of an alleged violent situation. He was not, in fact responding to an actually violent situation.

I wonder what would happen if we broke down doors and flowed water when we just had reports of fire (probably 80-90% of fire calls), but no actual confirmation.[/quote]
Well, you sure as shit wouldn’t get shot in the face for being wrong.[/quote]

If we mistakenly broke down the door of a house not on fire or did other serious structural damage, you don’t think we would be confronted with a possibly armed and irate (justifiably so) home owner?[/quote]

No, only cops face guns.

Pizza guys never, ever get robbed.

Like, never. [/quote]

Well, when we start sending pizza boys to apprehend non-violent fully compliant innocent people and defend against the threat of getting barked at we’ll issue them a sidearm along with that zip-up thing that keeps the pizza warm. [/quote]

Fixed that for you.

134

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I guess that poor woman bleeds out somewhere else now.

Because he had some dog killing to do and bullshitting to do.

Just to stay in that scenario.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s it. He decided to take a detour to go kill himself some white man’s black hating dog. Maybe it was to get back at the Zimmerman/Martin thing. [/quote]

It does not matter why he did it.

While he decided to take out that clear and imminent danger, some woman, somewhere, got beaten to a pulp with a tire iron by a supposedly armed man.

Because, if we like make up scenarios to excuse an armed thugs mo, we shall look at all the consequences. [/quote]
And when looking at consequences, we should accurately assign blame to those who directly caused them.

Whoever sent the cop on a goose chase is to blame, not the cop.

Blaming the officer is like throwing a match on the carpet instead of in the fireplace and then blaming the match for burning a house down.[/quote]

He threatened an unarmed man.

The man had his hands in the air.

He ordered said unarmed man to get his dog, the shot it before said man could possibly do so.

I dont care if the toothfairy told him that there was a whole stash of teeth under that guys daughters pillow.

I dont know about you, but I dont come from a nation where anyone in uniform is seen as a mystical being.

He eats, sleeps and shits like all the rest of us and he royally fucked up and piled some bs on top of it.

Which is when his sergeant apparently decided to pile even more on.

No.

You will never convince someone who grew up in a moderately free country that this was ok.

Go find some Syrian immigrant, he will be grateful that the cop did not rape the guy with a golf club.

[/quote]
Put yourself in the cops shoes. Without the use of hindsight, explain how you would’ve handled the situation.

Remember:

  1. You were called to a violent, life threatening scene
  2. You reasonably believe you are at the right place
  3. You reasonably believe the violator is in the yard
  4. You do not know what he may or may not have concealed
  5. You do not know how critical unseen aspects of the situation are but you are responsible for handling the situation
  6. A dog is approaching you
  7. You do not have back up.[/quote]

All right in an average Austrian city, this is what would happen:

Cop: Hi there, we have received a report that you beat your wife or girlfriend senseless.

Dude: I dont have a wife or girlfriend.

Cop: Bummer, let me radio my dispatcher again, this is weird. Cute dog by the way.

Dude: No problem, need any help?

Cop: Na, just stay there in case it turns out that I really had your address.

Dude: What the hell?

Cops: Yeah I know, just doing my job.

And that is kind of what would have happened.

I kid you not.

135

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:

[quote]SkyNett wrote:

[quote]roscoedog2012 wrote:
Not sure what everyone else thinks challenging him is but when a dog comes at you like this most people would think it is going to bite you.
[/quote]

Totally - I’m sure it was absolutely necessary to blow that fuckin dog away since he could have received a little bite on his leg.

It’s not like he could have chosen a less aggressive route - like maybe pepper spray or say not walking into the (completely innocent/had NOTHING to do with the actual complaint) guys yard with his gun drawn - loaded for proverbial bear.

Excuses and bullshit - another overly-aggressive cop who does some sick, fucked up shit (you know, like blasting a huge hole in the family dog right in the owner’s driveway here in the goddamned good ole US of A) and then acts COMPLETELY unaccountable for it.

I guaran-fucking-tee if something like this ever happened to you I doubt you’d be so cavalier about it. It’s horrible when your home is invaded like that and then even more so (after this prick points his gun at the totally innocent guy - cause that was necessary too I’m sure - guy probably had a garden hose in his hand after all) brutally kills a beloved family dog. Yea, that’s not traumatic at all. [/quote]

Once again someone who has no real experience in the situation saying they could have done something different. He was responding to a violent situation, came up on someone who very well could have been the violator, a dog came around the corner barking and coming toward him. A decision had to be made - do it get bit and risk having to dog continue to bite me while this person who may have just violently assaulted his girlfriend uses the opportunity to attack me as well. (remembering that every time a cop shows up they bring a gun the the situation) or do I address the threat. I am not acting cavalier about it. I have said numerous times the cop made a mistake in how he dealt with the aftermath. Sorry but if it had happened to me I would feel badly for my dog (see the avatar) and realize how the situation went down from the other viewpoint.
[/quote]

In Tennesse, I can have someone punching me in the face and break my nose and it doesn’t legally constitute a reasonable fear of serious bodily harm. But you are right a dog, on it’s own property, barking at me, fear of serious bodily harm?

And for the record, he was responding to the report of an alleged violent situation. He was not, in fact responding to an actually violent situation.

I wonder what would happen if we broke down doors and flowed water when we just had reports of fire (probably 80-90% of fire calls), but no actual confirmation.[/quote]
Well, you sure as shit wouldn’t get shot in the face for being wrong.[/quote]

If we mistakenly broke down the door of a house not on fire or did other serious structural damage, you don’t think we would be confronted with a possibly armed and irate (justifiably so) home owner?[/quote]

No, only cops face guns.

Pizza guys never, ever get robbed.

Like, never. [/quote]
Then you both agree there is an element of danger, one a cop is authorized to respond to, especially as he was called to a violent scene and reasonably believed he was at the right place.

/thread.

136

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

Fixed that for you.[/quote]

He wasn’t sent out “to apprehend non-violent fully compliant innocent people.” He was responding to the address given by a woman reporting she was being threatened by an armed man.

137

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I guess that poor woman bleeds out somewhere else now.

Because he had some dog killing to do and bullshitting to do.

Just to stay in that scenario.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s it. He decided to take a detour to go kill himself some white man’s black hating dog. Maybe it was to get back at the Zimmerman/Martin thing. [/quote]

It does not matter why he did it.

While he decided to take out that clear and imminent danger, some woman, somewhere, got beaten to a pulp with a tire iron by a supposedly armed man.

Because, if we like make up scenarios to excuse an armed thugs mo, we shall look at all the consequences. [/quote]
And when looking at consequences, we should accurately assign blame to those who directly caused them.

Whoever sent the cop on a goose chase is to blame, not the cop.

Blaming the officer is like throwing a match on the carpet instead of in the fireplace and then blaming the match for burning a house down.[/quote]

He threatened an unarmed man.

The man had his hands in the air.

He ordered said unarmed man to get his dog, the shot it before said man could possibly do so.

I dont care if the toothfairy told him that there was a whole stash of teeth under that guys daughters pillow.

I dont know about you, but I dont come from a nation where anyone in uniform is seen as a mystical being.

He eats, sleeps and shits like all the rest of us and he royally fucked up and piled some bs on top of it.

Which is when his sergeant apparently decided to pile even more on.

No.

You will never convince someone who grew up in a moderately free country that this was ok.

Go find some Syrian immigrant, he will be grateful that the cop did not rape the guy with a golf club.

[/quote]
Put yourself in the cops shoes. Without the use of hindsight, explain how you would’ve handled the situation.

Remember:

  1. You were called to a violent, life threatening scene
  2. You reasonably believe you are at the right place
  3. You reasonably believe the violator is in the yard
  4. You do not know what he may or may not have concealed
  5. You do not know how critical unseen aspects of the situation are but you are responsible for handling the situation
  6. A dog is approaching you
  7. You do not have back up.[/quote]

All right in an average Austrian city, this is what would happen:

Cop: Hi there, we have received a report that you beat your wife or girlfriend senseless.

Dude: I dont have a wife or girlfriend.

Cop: Bummer, let me radio my dispatcher again, this is weird. Cute dog by the way.

Dude: No problem, need any help?

Cop: Na, just stay there in case it turns out that I really had your address.

Dude: What the hell?

Cops: Yeah I know, just doing my job.

And that is kind of what would have happened.

I kid you not.
[/quote]

138

[quote]Sloth wrote:

He wasn’t sent out “to apprehend non-violent fully compliant innocent people.”
[/quote]

Exactly. But that is what he did. To apprehend a violent wife abuser, you have to find the violent wife abuser.

He did not enter a violent volatile situation. He created a violent volatile situation.

139

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]HoustonGuy wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I guess that poor woman bleeds out somewhere else now.

Because he had some dog killing to do and bullshitting to do.

Just to stay in that scenario.

[/quote]

Yes, that’s it. He decided to take a detour to go kill himself some white man’s black hating dog. Maybe it was to get back at the Zimmerman/Martin thing. [/quote]

It does not matter why he did it.

While he decided to take out that clear and imminent danger, some woman, somewhere, got beaten to a pulp with a tire iron by a supposedly armed man.

Because, if we like make up scenarios to excuse an armed thugs mo, we shall look at all the consequences. [/quote]
And when looking at consequences, we should accurately assign blame to those who directly caused them.

Whoever sent the cop on a goose chase is to blame, not the cop.

Blaming the officer is like throwing a match on the carpet instead of in the fireplace and then blaming the match for burning a house down.[/quote]

He threatened an unarmed man.

The man had his hands in the air.

He ordered said unarmed man to get his dog, the shot it before said man could possibly do so.

I dont care if the toothfairy told him that there was a whole stash of teeth under that guys daughters pillow.

I dont know about you, but I dont come from a nation where anyone in uniform is seen as a mystical being.

He eats, sleeps and shits like all the rest of us and he royally fucked up and piled some bs on top of it.

Which is when his sergeant apparently decided to pile even more on.

No.

You will never convince someone who grew up in a moderately free country that this was ok.

Go find some Syrian immigrant, he will be grateful that the cop did not rape the guy with a golf club.

[/quote]
Put yourself in the cops shoes. Without the use of hindsight, explain how you would’ve handled the situation.

Remember:

  1. You were called to a violent, life threatening scene
  2. You reasonably believe you are at the right place
  3. You reasonably believe the violator is in the yard
  4. You do not know what he may or may not have concealed
  5. You do not know how critical unseen aspects of the situation are but you are responsible for handling the situation
  6. A dog is approaching you
  7. You do not have back up.[/quote]

All right in an average Austrian city, this is what would happen:

Cop: Hi there, we have received a report that you beat your wife or girlfriend senseless.

Dude: I dont have a wife or girlfriend.

Cop: Bummer, let me radio my dispatcher again, this is weird. Cute dog by the way.

Dude: No problem, need any help?

Cop: Na, just stay there in case it turns out that I really had your address.

Dude: What the hell?

Cops: Yeah I know, just doing my job.

And that is kind of what would have happened.

I kid you not.
[/quote]
Only because you know the outcome. I mean, it isn’t like the police are ever lied to or anything. You’d be a bumbling cop at best, dead at worst if you made it a common practice to just trust Joe Blow.

Who fucked up the address anyways? Dispatch would’ve confirmed he was at the right place. I still find it comical how you unrealistically brush off the dog too. In fact, it honestly makes me think you are trolling to read your slants, ignored facts and general bluster.

140

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

He wasn’t sent out “to apprehend non-violent fully compliant innocent people.”
[/quote]

Exactly. But that is what he did. To apprehend a violent wife abuser, you have to find the violent wife abuser.

He did not enter a violent volatile situation. He created a violent volatile situation.[/quote]
Still very impressed by your hindsight.