Punching Power

Training
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I think punching power can most certainly be trained, althgouh I agree tha some people are just better thabn others at producing jaw breaking force. At the same time that I agree that there is a definite genetic component, I also think that it can be trained. I’ll give you an example: I could always throw a pretty heavy hanged right, but my left was terribel (growing up - before I started any striking training).

Then with some technique training, I’ve learned the necessay movement pattern, and now have a left that’s almost as good as my right. I’m not saying I have the skills or power of a great striker, or even the power or fatty joe schmoe that can one or two throw a hay makers. But I do think that movement patterns can be taught and refined.

Also I believe that the body can be trained to be most efficient at punching, i.e. developing the fast twich fiber properties of certain muscle groups, and even more important is developing the correct muscular tighnesses and mobilities in the applicable muscle groups.

62

[quote]xenophon wrote:

whereas knees (which tend to land to the legs and body) and kicks (which tend to land to the legs, body and arms) are what tend to cause a cumulative effect.[/quote]

Hmmm…I wouldn’t jump to that conclusion with knees. I’ve seen many of fights end with a single knee strike to the gut/solar plexus. I could see your argument for kicks…but I wouldn’t say that is the consensus. Kicks to the neck and liver shut people down.

In traditional Muay Thai,they don’t really throw a lot of leg kicks…they kick to the body and head as they score higher than leg kicks. Dutch kickboxing is mainly responsible for the current focus on leg kicks.

63

I said tend, I did not say it was universal. Also, let’s face it, the Dutch style has its influence in sporting contests.

64

[quote]xenophon wrote:
I said tend, I did not say it was universal. Also, let’s face it, the Dutch style has its influence in sporting contests.[/quote]

Then we are in agreement. As for the elbows,have you noticed that Thaiboxers tend to KO with elbows…whereas MMA fighter’s elbows result in cuts? As a matter of fact,I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actual Thai fighter get a cut from an elbow.

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[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
xenophon wrote:
I said tend, I did not say it was universal. Also, let’s face it, the Dutch style has its influence in sporting contests.

Then we are in agreement. As for the elbows,have you noticed that Thaiboxers tend to KO with elbows…whereas MMA fighter’s elbows result in cuts? As a matter of fact,I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actual Thai fighter get a cut from an elbow. [/quote]

There are different ways to throw elbows.

MMA fighters (Florian would be a good example, or Loiseau sp?) tend to use the point of the elbow and drag it across the surface, similar to slashing with a blade. This causes tons of friction to be focused into a very small area and thus results in a cut.

Traditional Muay Boran/Muay Thai used more of an impact elbow which would be more likely to cause a KO and less likely to cause a cut.

66

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
xenophon wrote:
I said tend, I did not say it was universal. Also, let’s face it, the Dutch style has its influence in sporting contests.

Then we are in agreement. As for the elbows,have you noticed that Thaiboxers tend to KO with elbows…whereas MMA fighter’s elbows result in cuts? As a matter of fact,I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actual Thai fighter get a cut from an elbow.

There are different ways to throw elbows.

MMA fighters (Florian would be a good example, or Loiseau sp?) tend to use the point of the elbow and drag it across the surface, similar to slashing with a blade. This causes tons of friction to be focused into a very small area and thus results in a cut.

Traditional Muay Boran/Muay Thai used more of an impact elbow which would be more likely to cause a KO and less likely to cause a cut.[/quote]

I’m aware of that. But even when most MMA fighters attempt the “impact” type elbow,they still tend to cut. I’m sure it’s the small differences in technique,nature of mma,etc. Plus traditional MT guys tend to be more accurate with the intentions of their elbows. Just an observation of what I’ve seen that was worth bringing up.

This actually makes a good topic in itself…as impact type elbows are severely underrated in combat sports that allow them and self-defense.

67

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
xenophon wrote:
I said tend, I did not say it was universal. Also, let’s face it, the Dutch style has its influence in sporting contests.

Then we are in agreement. As for the elbows,have you noticed that Thaiboxers tend to KO with elbows…whereas MMA fighter’s elbows result in cuts? As a matter of fact,I don’t think I’ve ever seen an actual Thai fighter get a cut from an elbow.

There are different ways to throw elbows.

MMA fighters (Florian would be a good example, or Loiseau sp?) tend to use the point of the elbow and drag it across the surface, similar to slashing with a blade. This causes tons of friction to be focused into a very small area and thus results in a cut.

Traditional Muay Boran/Muay Thai used more of an impact elbow which would be more likely to cause a KO and less likely to cause a cut.

I’m aware of that. But even when most MMA fighters attempt the “impact” type elbow,they still tend to cut. I’m sure it’s the small differences in technique,nature of mma,etc. Plus traditional MT guys tend to be more accurate with the intentions of their elbows. Just an observation of what I’ve seen that was worth bringing up.

This actually makes a good topic in itself…as impact type elbows are severely underrated in combat sports that allow them and self-defense.
[/quote]

Yeah, true about the accuracy point. When you think about it, it makes sense though, as many traditional MT guys have been practicing elbows since they were knee high to a grasshopper, while many MMA guys started out in different disciplines (wrestling, boxing, judo, etc…) which don’t heavily emphasize elbows strikes (if they’re allowed at all). Hence they’re just not as good at pinpointing them due to not having practiced them as much and just tend to throw them in hopes that they’ll land and not so much trying to land them on a specific target.

Then, like I said you have guys who specifically are looking to cut with their elbows. You also likely don’t have as high a level of instruction on average from MMA coaches as is found in most traditional MT centers in Thailand.

A lot of elbows are thrown from the ground as well, which, while a KO is still definitely possible, changes the dynamics to an extent.

And yeah, I agree that impact elbows are a great self defense tool and every effective in combat sports that allow them. There are actually a bunch of versions that aren’t legal in MMA which are very, very effective in a self defense context.

68

Not only are elbows effective and devastating, from a self defense perspective they also have a plus that punches don’t. The number of small bones in the human hand is hardly insignificant. Broken hands are a possibility more likely without gloves than with.

69

hit open palm then

70

[quote]drewh wrote:
hit open palm then[/quote]

Why limit yourself…or choose one or the other? Depending on the proximity/range…elbows are probably quicker and more effective without exposing yourself too much. You can still hurt yourself with open palm before you would with an elbow…but it is still an option. Just depends on situation.

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[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
drewh wrote:
hit open palm then

Why limit yourself…or choose one or the other? Depending on the proximity/range…elbows are probably quicker and more effective without exposing yourself too much. You can still hurt yourself with open palm before you would with an elbow…but it is still an option. Just depends on situation.[/quote]

True.

Palms do have the advantage of being able to flow directly into things like rouges, rakes, and grabs though.

Agree though, both are good options and the situation will determine which is more appropriate.

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[quote]xenophon wrote:
Not only are elbows effective and devastating, from a self defense perspective they also have a plus that punches don’t. The number of small bones in the human hand is hardly insignificant. Broken hands are a possibility more likely without gloves than with.[/quote]

True. Elbows/forearm smashes are definitely more durable weapons than a closed fist.