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the gracies are overrated, stop nuthugging them
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pulling guard or even taking your opponent down on the street is generally a bad idea since you never know if there is broken glass, sharp stones, a friend of the guy you’re fighting that is just waiting for a chance to kick your head in… and so on.
Good topic. I have been training in juijitsu for about four years and am a smaller guy, so alot of the time i am on my back, usually working from my guard.
That being said, i hope i would never pull guard in a street fight. Just landing on my back on the concrete would probably hurt a hell of a lot. I feel i would be able to sweep someone effectively if i ended up there, but i dont want to jump to guard as a first choice. Even wrestling takedowns make me nervous, i could catch a knee on the way in, the guy could be an ex high school or college wrestler and just pancake me to the ground. I guess i would try to clinch and go for elbows and knees, and then if i felt i had to take him down try to arm drag to his back or something. Never having been there its really hard to say what i would do.
I need to start more on the feet in juijitsu class. We start from the knees alot, and i really dont bother trying wrestling or judo takedowns from there. Usually one of us will pull guard to get the action moving. I hope that does not carry over to a street situation. I have worked a fair amount of wrestling takedowns, but done feel 100% confident with them yet.
anton
So is clinching a pretty good move in a streetfight, especially if the guy is bigger? Would that take away some of his power potential? Or would he just toss a smaller guy around and throw uppercuts? I persoannly think that a clinch then a headbutt to the nose a few times would fuck someone up pretty bad, Especially if your pulling thier head into yours at the same time your butting.
V
[quote]pookie wrote:
This might help:
Pulling Guard
Pulling guard is when you are still standing with your opponent and instead of going for a takedown you grab them and fall backwards bringing them with you. This will bring the match to the ground in a neutral guard position instead of a dominate position which may be obtained by performing a takedown.
[/quote]
Ahhh! Thank you! I was picturing something more of the photo above at first. lol
Kuz
[quote]Vegita wrote:
So is clinching a pretty good move in a streetfight, especially if the guy is bigger? Would that take away some of his power potential? Or would he just toss a smaller guy around and throw uppercuts? I persoannly think that a clinch then a headbutt to the nose a few times would fuck someone up pretty bad, Especially if your pulling thier head into yours at the same time your butting.
V[/quote]
Haha well first. Head butts are generally a last resort weapon as you tend to do a good bit of damage to yourself in the process. All the guy has to do is shift a bit and suddenly your headbutting his shoulder. But in some cases it is a good idea to clinch. If i’m bigger then you, then i will have more range to hit you with. You clinch to try and nulify the whole range thing. This takes you to the all business fighting.
Knees and elbows, I don’t care what anyone else says, they are your best fighting weapons. (also good are eye pokes, groin shots, and shots to the throat) A good knee will k.o. just about anyone and for the other 5% of the world it would daze them enough to get in a few more shots. Elbows are nasty and in addition to good k.o. power they can cause some serious cuts. If you get a good cut on their face chances are good they will lose the will to continue. Granted yea eventually they would get light headed from blood loss and you would win but most street fights don’t last longer then 20-30 sec.
[quote]Kuz wrote:
pookie wrote:
This might help:
Pulling Guard
Pulling guard is when you are still standing with your opponent and instead of going for a takedown you grab them and fall backwards bringing them with you. This will bring the match to the ground in a neutral guard position instead of a dominate position which may be obtained by performing a takedown.
Ahhh! Thank you! I was picturing something more of the photo above at first. lol
Kuz
[/quote]
No shit,…I was reading this thinking …“kids nowadays”.
[quote]Kuz wrote:
pookie wrote:
This might help:
Pulling Guard
Pulling guard is when you are still standing with your opponent and instead of going for a takedown you grab them and fall backwards bringing them with you. This will bring the match to the ground in a neutral guard position instead of a dominate position which may be obtained by performing a takedown.
Ahhh! Thank you! I was picturing something more of the photo above at first. lol
Kuz
[/quote]
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle?
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle? [/quote]
No, that’s Larry Allen, right? He plays guard, usually left guard.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle? [/quote]
Pulling tackle is another way to win a streetfight. It can be very effective, but wash your hands afterwards.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle?
No, that’s Larry Allen, right? He plays guard, usually left guard.[/quote]
Ahh, two people who are both right! Larry Allen (potentially one of the best offensive linemen ever and the owner of a 700 lb bench… I saw the video… yowza) has played BOTH guard and tackle in his career, but is currently playing left guard. I do remember him in the good ol’ days at left tackle pancaking some sumbitch attempting to rush from the blind side. Good good times. Sorry for the hijack… just getting misty thinking about the glory days in the 90’s.
Gahahahhh . . .
[quote]Massif wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle?
Pulling tackle is another way to win a streetfight. It can be very effective, but wash your hands afterwards.[/quote]
[quote]Kuz wrote:
malonetd wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle?
No, that’s Larry Allen, right? He plays guard, usually left guard.
Ahh, two people who are both right! Larry Allen (potentially one of the best offensive linemen ever and the owner of a 700 lb bench… I saw the video… yowza) has played BOTH guard and tackle in his career, but is currently playing left guard. I do remember him in the good ol’ days at left tackle pancaking some sumbitch attempting to rush from the blind side. Good good times. Sorry for the hijack… just getting misty thinking about the glory days in the 90’s.[/quote]
You’re right, he did play tackle for some time. He was even a Pro Bowl selection at tackle in 1998. Sorry, these things slip my mind. I’m not a big Cowboy fan.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
Kuz wrote:
malonetd wrote:
rainjack wrote:
I could be wrong. I probably am, but isn’t that a photo of a pulling tackle?
No, that’s Larry Allen, right? He plays guard, usually left guard.
Ahh, two people who are both right! Larry Allen (potentially one of the best offensive linemen ever and the owner of a 700 lb bench… I saw the video… yowza) has played BOTH guard and tackle in his career, but is currently playing left guard. I do remember him in the good ol’ days at left tackle pancaking some sumbitch attempting to rush from the blind side. Good good times. Sorry for the hijack… just getting misty thinking about the glory days in the 90’s.
You’re right, he did play tackle for some time. He was even a Pro Bowl selection at tackle in 1998. Sorry, these things slip my mind. I’m not a big Cowboy fan. [/quote]
Judging by your location I am guessing… Packers fan?
I was going off his number. Back in the day - centers wore 50’s, guards wore 60’s, and tackles wore 70’s.
[quote]TroyMcClure wrote:
It really depends on the situation. I’ve been training for a while now and for the most part I could pull guard and either leglock or sweep most people I would encounter in the street (concrete or not). Now if he has friends, weapons, dogs etc the situation changes. I also wouldn’t choose to pull guard unless I knew it was my best option. I’d rather get a little scraped up from the concrete than KOd or slammed![/quote]
The problem is you have no way of knowing that he doesn’t have a weapon. (unless for some reason you pat him down before you fight).
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
… what do you do when he almost double’s your weight?[/quote]
We’ve seen the Royce (180-something) vs. Akebono fight (650+), right? I heard that for a small part of the fight, Royce actually held him in some type of modified guard (well, as far as his legs could wrap anyway).
[quote]Minotaur wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
… what do you do when he almost double’s your weight?
We’ve seen the Royce (180-something) vs. Akebono fight (650+), right? I heard that for a small part of the fight, Royce actually held him in some type of modified guard (well, as far as his legs could wrap anyway).[/quote]
I hate how this keeps getting brought up as an example…if you’ve been training jiu-jitsu as long as Royce has, you’ll probably be able to do this, for the rest of us, you’ll probably be smashed. We have this guy who must be pushing 400 lbs of fat, but if he gets top he’ll submit you with the smother.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
So is clinching a pretty good move in a streetfight, especially if the guy is bigger? Would that take away some of his power potential? Or would he just toss a smaller guy around and throw uppercuts?[/quote]
If the size/strength discrepancy is minor and you are skilled in the clinch, that’s not a bad idea. If the discrepancy is enormous, that’s the last thing I’d want to do.
If you are facing a much bigger man, speed/quickness are usually to your advantage. Allowing him to get his mitts on you takes that away. I’d rather stand outside, wait for the bigger man to lunge, and then kick the bejesus out of his knee on the leg he shifted his weight onto. Outside of knocking a guy cold, nothing ends a fight quicker or more decisively than a wrecked knee.
I think most intelligent fighters train bottom guard so they can defend and have an offense if they end up there off an opponents takedown or a strong strike. Even in MMA nobody purposely pulls guard. Fighting from your back sucks no matter how good your guard is.
[quote]slimjim wrote:
I hate how this keeps getting brought up as an example…if you’ve been training jiu-jitsu as long as Royce has, you’ll probably be able to do this, for the rest of us, you’ll probably be smashed. We have this guy who must be pushing 400 lbs of fat, but if he gets top he’ll submit you with the smother.[/quote]
I totally agree. I was just saying, that regardless, Royce was able to handle himself against a dude more than 3 times his weight…in a ring…with gloves…and a referee…given ample preparation and training time.
Moral of the story - On Da Streetz, grappling should almost always be a last resort.