Psychologists Repudiate Gay-to-Straight Therapy

[legendaryblaze]

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

Stop trying to change my natural sexual orientation of disgust with gay sex. It isn�¢??t healthy for me. I am who I am, stop trying to change me.

Lol, this is like saying “I am racist, stop trying to change me. I believe black people are inferior, stop persecuting me.”[/quote]

What is wrong with that?

Key word is “believe”. People can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t harm others.
You can tolerate something, but doesn’t mean you have to like it.
I find homosexuality extremely disgusting and wrong. However i have no problems with homosexuals because i am not involved with them and they don’t come to me.

[forlife]

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
forlife wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Maximus vs Maximus…

I have a bigger post count (barely), so I win.

I’m so not entertained…[/quote]

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/sjqdjxmjnn--Are-You-Not-EntertainedGladiator-Russell-Crowe-Maximus-

[dtheyer]

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

Stop trying to change my natural sexual orientation of disgust with gay sex. It isn�?�¢??t healthy for me. I am who I am, stop trying to change me.

Lol, this is like saying “I am racist, stop trying to change me. I believe black people are inferior, stop persecuting me.”

What is wrong with that?

Key word is “believe”. People can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t harm others.
You can tolerate something, but doesn’t mean you have to like it.
I find homosexuality extremely disgusting and wrong. However i have no problems with homosexuals because i am not involved with them and they don’t come to me.
[/quote]

WTF… no, I don’t tolerate racist or homophobic people if I can avoid it. They are entitled to free speech of course but I would never respect/want to know such a person.

[ds1973]

[quote]forlife wrote:

I was pretty devout, and genuinely believed my church leaders were speaking for god when they told me to get married. So I did. I told my wife that I was gay before proposing to her, but she also fell for the church line that gays would be cured. After 9 years, we both realized the cure wasn’t going to happen, and decided to divorce. We’re a lot better off as friends than we were as husband and wife.[/quote]

Ok, here’s a perfect example of how this mentality of “reforming homosexuals” impacted not only one life, but two. Sounds like you’re happier now that you’re being true to yourself.

[thunderbolt23]

Good Lord. No one cares. Gay marriage and its related topics are not even a footnote in the current political climate.

I have come to the conclusion Forlife isn’t actually human - he is a self-aware PowerPoint presentation on repeat.

[forlife]

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Many gays, unsurprisingly, aren’t happy with it. The APA’s own guidelines allow for self-determination of one’s own sexual orientation. Have you actually read them?[/quote]

Sounds like you’re the one that hasn’t read them. From your own link, which says exactly the same thing as my original post:

[quote]According to new APA guidelines, the therapist must make clear that homosexuality doesn’t signal a mental or emotional disorder. The counselor must advise clients that gay men and women can lead happy and healthy lives, and emphasize that there is no evidence therapy can change sexual orientation.

But if the client still believes that affirming his same-sex attractions would be sinful or destructive to his faith, psychologists can help him construct an identity that rejects the power of those attractions, the APA says. That might require living celibately, learning to deflect sexual impulses or framing a life of struggle as an opportunity to grow closer to God.

“We’re not trying to encourage people to become ‘ex-gay,’” said Judith Glassgold, who chaired the APA’s task force on the issue. “But we have to acknowledge that, for some people, religious identity is such an important part of their lives, it may transcend everything else.”

The APA has long endorsed the right of clients to determine their own identities. But it also warned that “lesbians and gay men who feel they must conceal their sexual orientation report more frequent mental health concerns.”[/quote]

You asked:

How are people who want to determine their own sexual orientation supposed to do so if there are no avenues for treatment and research into such avenues is frowned upon/banned?

How did you get from the APA statement to “determining your own sexual orientation”? Do you not understand that the APA concluded, based on 47 years of research, that people can’t change their sexual orientation? At best, they can repress or deny it by living a celibate life.

Considering a life of male-on-male sex is fraught with many dangers

Why are you confusing homosexuality with sexual irresponsibility? Why are you unwilling to admit that gays can live sexually healthy, responsible lives? What are these “many dangers” that my partner and I are experiencing?

No data suggests that many gay men form stable, long-term relationships.

Ya think maybe that’s because homosexuality has been demonized, ridiculed, and relegated to dark alleys for so many years? Isn’t the purpose of marriage to PROMOTE and FOSTER long term relationships, via the legal responsibilities and benefits that it entails?

Why shouldn’t more research into reparative therapy then be allowed, especially since the APA’s own guidelines call for patient self-determination?

47 years of research and the consensual conclusions of every major medical, mental health, and educational organization aren’t enough for you?

[tom63]

Who cares? I find gay stuff icky if you need to know. Don’t hate them, but won’t support almost any of the “gay” bills. I think the lifestyle is nasty and basically don’t care otherwise.

[forlife]

[quote]kodiak82 wrote:
besides, individual states should say who can and who can’t get married. NOT the federal gov. If some states want to allow gay marriage, and some don’t. that’s up to the voters in said states. Its a states rights issue [/quote]

The most important responsibilities/benefits of marriage are only possible through federal recognition (social security survivorship, joint tax filing, immigration, etc.).

[forlife]

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Ok, here’s a perfect example of how this mentality of “reforming homosexuals” impacted not only one life, but two. Sounds like you’re happier now that you’re being true to yourself.[/quote]

Actually, the misconception that my orientation would change impacted four lives, since we had two children. Although knowing what I know now, I could never marry another woman, I’ll always be grateful for my kids. It would have been a healthier environment for all concerned to come out earlier and adopt kids instead, but I’m glad things worked out the way they did.

Fortunately, I never cheated on my wife so we didn’t have to deal with that pain. But it was still a long, soul wrenching process, and resolving it was by far the hardest thing I’ve ever done.

I do feel much happier, more integrated, and at peace now in my life. My ex-wife and I get along well, I am close to my kids, I have a partner that I love on all levels, and life is good.

[forlife]

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Who cares? I find gay stuff icky if you need to know. Don’t hate them, but won’t support almost any of the “gay” bills. I think the lifestyle is nasty and basically don’t care otherwise.[/quote]

I find straight sex icky, but I don’t advocate discrimination against heteros.

[orion]

[quote]dtheyer wrote:
legendaryblaze wrote:
dtheyer wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:

Stop trying to change my natural sexual orientation of disgust with gay sex. It isn�??�?�¢??t healthy for me. I am who I am, stop trying to change me.

Lol, this is like saying “I am racist, stop trying to change me. I believe black people are inferior, stop persecuting me.”

What is wrong with that?

Key word is “believe”. People can believe whatever they want as long as they don’t harm others.
You can tolerate something, but doesn’t mean you have to like it.
I find homosexuality extremely disgusting and wrong. However i have no problems with homosexuals because i am not involved with them and they don’t come to me.

WTF… no, I don’t tolerate racist or homophobic people if I can avoid it. They are entitled to free speech of course but I would never respect/want to know such a person.
[/quote]

That is pretty much what tolerance is.

[forlife]

[quote]orion wrote:
That is pretty much what tolerance is.
[/quote]

Not really. I don’t expect people to like me or to approve of my sexual orientation, as long as they are willing to live and let live. To me, basic tolerance means keeping your nose out of other people’s business.

[Rockscar]

[quote]forlife wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
forlife wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Maximus vs Maximus…

I have a bigger post count (barely), so I win.

I’m so not entertained…

http://www.entertonement.com/clips/sjqdjxmjnn--Are-You-Not-EntertainedGladiator-Russell-Crowe-Maximus- [/quote]

Looks like you totally undestood what I did there^

[Rockscar]

[quote]forlife wrote:
orion wrote:
That is pretty much what tolerance is.

Not really. I don’t expect people to like me or to approve of my sexual orientation, as long as they are willing to live and let live. To me, basic tolerance means keeping your nose out of other people’s business.[/quote]

Doble edged sword. Gays attack the church. Many straights don’t want you to marry for moral and religious reasons…we are both in each others business.

[forlife]

I criticize anti-gay religions, and don’t mind if people in turn criticize me. But I would never support a law that discriminates against believers or treats them as second class citizens.

[PRCalDude]

How did you get from the APA statement to “determining your own sexual orientation”? Do you not understand that the APA concluded, based on 47 years of research, that people can’t change their sexual orientation? At best, they can repress or deny it by living a celibate life.

They changed their minds in 1973, they changed their minds with the new guidelines, they’ll change their minds again. All I’m asking for is that research be allowed. Would you be happy with the pre-1973 guidelines describing homosexuality as a mental illness? Well, we already know the answer. The gays lobbied and it got changed.

Why are you confusing homosexuality with sexual irresponsibility? Why are you unwilling to admit that gays can live sexually healthy, responsible lives? What are these “many dangers” that my partner and I are experiencing?

You’re creating a dichotomy (homosexuality/sexual irresponsibility) that does not exist in reality. The reality is, gay sex involves a risky behavior simply by virtue of the fact that the rectum, physiologically speaking, is much easier to tear than the vagina. Moreover, gay sex involves two male libidos interacting, not a male libido and a female libido. By definition, it’s a risky behavior.

But what I think you mean is that “My partner and I are both HIV-negative and are in a committed relationship.” Well, bravo. You’re getting a bit older and have decided to settle down with somebody who’s not HIV infected. This is not the reality for the vast majority of gay men, and you know it. Andrew Sullivan even admits this.

Ya think maybe that’s because homosexuality has been demonized, ridiculed, and relegated to dark alleys for so many years? Isn’t the purpose of marriage to PROMOTE and FOSTER long term relationships, via the legal responsibilities and benefits that it entails?

Just as I predicted, you’re starting to blame everything on straights.

47 years of research and the consensual conclusions of every major medical, mental health, and educational organization aren’t enough for you?

I dunno, were the decades of years of pre-1973 consensus good enough for you?

Logic. Google it.

[lucasa]

[quote]forlife wrote:

efforts to produce change could be harmful, inducing depression and suicidal tendencies.[/quote]

Just being homosexual can induce depression and suicidal tendencies.

[MaximusB]

I win, because I don’t care to argue for my way of life. I am too busy living it. I don’t answer to anyone, nor do I care about what others think. While in my house and while going about my business, it is my business, and am not in need of the acceptance of others.

[anonym]

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I win, because I don’t care to argue for my way of life. I am too busy living it. I don’t answer to anyone, nor do I care about what others think. While in my house and while going about my business, it is my business, and am not in need of the acceptance of others. [/quote]

Does your way of life involve things that lead people to openly discriminate/disparage/literally HATE you, despite the fact that it cannot be helped?

I’m just asking because it’s easy to not care what anyone thinks when you’re part of the accepted majority.

[Holzkopf]

Forlife should do the same. Just fuck all those negativ people and do what you want in your life. By talking to people, who want to argue, but not be convinced, you only get them off and yourself in a bad mood.