Proud to be Canadian

Off Topic
101

[quote]Hagar wrote:
MsM wrote:
Because one has pride in their country does not mean they are bashing another. I love both Canada and the U.S.

Susan

Thank you, but I’ve taken offense to some of the America bashing thats gone on here. Although, I have to admit that our some of our pop culture gives other countries ammo to bash us with.

I believe national pride should come from things like “how’s my country positively contributed to the world” “positive aspects of the people’s personality and culture” “beauty of the land” and “successfulness of government (Cambodia would do so good here)”

I’ve never been to Canada but from what I can see Ontario looks pretty good so far LOL. I’ve met some great people from Canada, although one of my close friends was just in Quebec and he told me the people there were despicable. I guess they really hate us Americans. What gives Quebec? Did he just have a bad experience? [/quote]

That is understandable. Nobody can insult something you don’t care about. You obviously love your country. That’s a good thing:)

Canada and the U.S. are both beautiful countries that have both contributed in too many areas to name in one thread. I love my country and my neighbours south of the border also.

Ontario is amazing. lol If you ever get the chance to visit Canada, you should.

Whaddya say?

Susan

102

[quote]MsM wrote:

Nelly Furtado
BTO
Joni Mitchell
Big Sugar
April Wine
Alanis Morissette
Sarah McLachlan
Sum 41
Anne Murray
Neil Young
Diana Krall
David Foster
Barenaked Ladies
Leonard Cohen

and even

Tommy Hunter
Guy Lombardo
Gordon Lightfoot
and Robert Goulet

How’s that?:slight_smile:
[/quote]

Way better than the other nation we share boarders with. Mexican music sucks.
I never knew Joni Mitchell, Sarah McLachlan, and Diana Krall were Canadians. Respect, thats some serious talent.
I haven’t heard of a few of those but I’m checking them out. Nelly Furtado’s got some nice tunes. I always dug Niel Young and Crazy Hoarse. You also have some good jazz musicians up there. Front line Assembly is Canadian also (love that band) and of coarse RUSH kicks ass. Good job Canada.

103

[quote]MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:
MsM wrote:
Because one has pride in their country does not mean they are bashing another. I love both Canada and the U.S.

Susan

Thank you, but I’ve taken offense to some of the America bashing thats gone on here. Although, I have to admit that our some of our pop culture gives other countries ammo to bash us with.

I believe national pride should come from things like “how’s my country positively contributed to the world” “positive aspects of the people’s personality and culture” “beauty of the land” and “successfulness of government (Cambodia would do so good here)”

I’ve never been to Canada but from what I can see Ontario looks pretty good so far LOL. I’ve met some great people from Canada, although one of my close friends was just in Quebec and he told me the people there were despicable. I guess they really hate us Americans. What gives Quebec? Did he just have a bad experience?

That is understandable. Nobody can insult something you don’t care about. You obviously love your country. That’s a good thing:)

Canada and the U.S. are both beautiful countries that have both contributed in too many areas to name in one thread. I love my country and my neighbours south of the border also.

Ontario is amazing. lol If you ever get the chance to visit Canada, you should.

Whaddya say?

Susan[/quote]

I’ve always wanted to check it out. I lived in Minnesota for a bit. If I make it up there maybe we could meet up for coffee, or a bite to eat.

104

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

  1. No one buys the whole “American expansion into Canada” theory - annexation was not a war goal, just part of the tactic of waging war. There was no “Manifest Destiny” goal of the War of 1812 - that is per the readable history.
    [/quote]

You’re usually one of the posters that will listen to arguments, so I suggest you look into some of Henry Clay’s or any of the other “War Hawks” speeches.

Although it more or less obliterated from American text books, the “liberation” of Canada from British oppression was very much THE war aim. President Madison was under heavy pressure from the southern states, but chose to declare war on the basis of British impressment, as a perfectly legitimate reason, and one he thought could be acheived. If you look at any “War of 1812” genealogical website you will also discover that the vast majority of volunteers came from the South.

As Canada in 1812 was mainly populated by French Canadians and refugee Americans who had emphatically rejected the Revolution and suffered for it, it was a bit naive to expect a welcome.

TQB

PS. I happen to have a relative who fought in the American Revolution as a Patriot, moved to Canada, and later fought to repel the American invaders. History and “history” make for fascinating comparisons.

105

[quote]TQB wrote:

You’re usually one of the posters that will listen to arguments, so I suggest you look into some of Henry Clay’s or any of the other “War Hawks” speeches.

Although it more or less obliterated from American text books, the “liberation” of Canada from British oppression was very much THE war aim. President Madison was under heavy pressure from the southern states, but chose to declare war on the basis of British impressment, as a perfectly legitimate reason, and one he thought could be acheived. If you look at any “War of 1812” genealogical website you will also discover that the vast majority of volunteers came from the South.

As Canada in 1812 was mainly populated by French Canadians and refugee Americans who had emphatically rejected the Revolution and suffered for it, it was a bit naive to expect a welcome.

TQB

PS. I happen to have a relative who fought in the American Revolution as a Patriot, moved to Canada, and later fought to repel the American invaders. History and “history” make for fascinating comparisons.[/quote]

Thanks for being reasonable, but I am familiar with the War Hawk line, and the point of targeting Canada was because the War Hawks thought Britain was arming Indians in the area. The War Hawks wanted to end that threat.

As for a “Manifest Destiny” approach, here is a summary:

[i]The idea that one cause of the war was American expansionism or desire for Canadian land was much discussed among historians before 1940, but is rarely cited by experts any more.[4] Some Canadian historians propounded the notion in the early 20th century, and it survives in Canadian mythology.[5]

Madison and his advisors believed that conquest of Canada would be easy and that economic coercion would force the British to come to terms by cutting off the food supply for their West Indies colonies. Furthermore, possession of Canada would be a valuable bargaining chip. Frontiersmen demanded the seizure of Canada not because they wanted the land (they had plenty), but because the British were thought to be arming the Indians and thereby blocking settlement of the west. [6] As Horsman concludes, “The idea of conquering Canada had been present since at least 1807 as a means of forcing England to change her policy at sea. The conquest of Canada was primarily a means of waging war, not a reason for starting it.”[7] Hickey flatly states, “The desire to annex Canada did not bring on the war.” [8] Brown (1964) concludes, “The purpose of the Canadian expedition was to serve negotiation not to annex Canada.”[9] Burt, a leading Canadian scholar, agrees completely, noting that Foster, the British minister to Washington, also rejected the argument that annexation of Canada was a war goal. [10]

Numerous American exiles (United Empire Loyalists) and immigrants had settled in Upper Canada (Ontario). The Loyalists were hostile to reunion with the U.S., while the other settlers seem to have been disinterested. The Canadian colonies were thinly populated and only lightly defended by the British Army, and some Americans believed that the many in Upper Canada would rise up and greet an American invading army as liberators. The combination implied an easy conquest, as former president Thomas Jefferson suggested in 1812, “the acquisition of Canada this year, as far as the neighborhood of Quebec, will be a mere matter of marching, and will give us the experience for the attack on Halifax, the next and final expulsion of England from the American continent.”[/i]

Btw - that is a fascinating family history you have. Very interesting.

106

It is a valid view, although I think it underestimates the difference in views among leading Americans. I think your summary is a good summation of President Madison’s views, it seems unduly generous towards the War Hawks, who I would argue wanted to annex Canada. This was expressed well before the war, 1807 onwards.

Apart from a few Scots in Nova Scotia, I do not think there was any English speaking population in Canada, that were not directly originating in the US, either as loyalist, or a in the case of my relative, a Patriot who saw one social superior class replaced by another. There were many who felt ill-treated and moved North in the 90’s.

This explains a lot of the American misconceptions in 1812. They targeted a population that specifically rejected being Americans. It also explains a lot about Canada today…

107

[quote]MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:
Being a musician I was wondering, how’s the music scene up there? What contributions have you guys made to music in the 20 century. I know about America’s and England’s musical contribution to the world, but is there anything thats come outa Canada thats influenced modern music? I have a lot pride in my country’s musical contributions to the world Jazz, Blues, R&B, rock n roll, metal, country, blue grass, surf, alternative, electronic, modern classical, movie soundtracks just to name a few. Happy Canada day you hosers Peace.

Nelly Furtado
BTO
Joni Mitchell
Big Sugar
April Wine
Alanis Morissette
Sarah McLachlan
Sum 41
Anne Murray
Neil Young
Diana Krall
David Foster
Barenaked Ladies
Leonard Cohen

and even

Tommy Hunter
Guy Lombardo
Gordon Lightfoot
and Robert Goulet

How’s that?:slight_smile:
[/quote]

What is wrong with RUSH?

108

Reason#25 - Me

109

[quote]Hagar wrote:
MsM wrote:

Nelly Furtado
BTO
Joni Mitchell
Big Sugar
April Wine
Alanis Morissette
Sarah McLachlan
Sum 41
Anne Murray
Neil Young
Diana Krall
David Foster
Barenaked Ladies
Leonard Cohen

and even

Tommy Hunter
Guy Lombardo
Gordon Lightfoot
and Robert Goulet

How’s that?:slight_smile:

Way better than the other nation we share boarders with. Mexican music sucks.
I never knew Joni Mitchell, Sarah McLachlan, and Diana Krall were Canadians. Respect, thats some serious talent.
I haven’t heard of a few of those but I’m checking them out. Nelly Furtado’s got some nice tunes. I always dug Niel Young and Crazy Hoarse. You also have some good jazz musicians up there. Front line Assembly is Canadian also (love that band) and of coarse RUSH kicks ass. Good job Canada.
[/quote]

They sure are. Thank you; yes, some wonderful talent. I don’t listn to all of them but am proud of their accomplishments nonetheless.

Zapp, the reason why I didn’t mention Rush is because you already did! lol Thank you:)

David Foster - Wikipedia One of our best. He has worked with many greats in the music industry.

Susan

110

[quote]Hagar wrote:

Hagar wrote:
I’ve always wanted to check it out. I lived in Minnesota for a bit. If I make it up there maybe we could meet up for coffee, or a bite to eat.[/quote]

How about coffee AND a bite to eat? :smiley: My pleasure to show you the sites.

Susan

111

Hey, anyone from Yukon Teritory? Specifically Whitehorse? I ask because I am going to the Dustball softball tournament on the 13th 14th and 15th.

112

[quote]MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:

Hagar wrote:
I’ve always wanted to check it out. I lived in Minnesota for a bit. If I make it up there maybe we could meet up for coffee, or a bite to eat.

How about coffee AND a bite to eat? :smiley: My pleasure to show you the sites.

Susan

[/quote]
I wish I still lived in Minnesota I’d be up there ASAP. If your ever in California I’d love to give you a tour:-) We could go to the pistol range and fire off a few rounds.

113

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

Canadians at that period weren’t the rugged, independent type -they were the work-monkeys of the their masters in powdered wigs across the pond.[/quote]

And then…

Pot? Meet kettle.

– ElbowStrike

114

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:

Canadians at that period weren’t the rugged, independent type -they were the work-monkeys of the their masters in powdered wigs across the pond.

And then…

Seriously, you accuse others of having an “inferiority comples” when you can’t resist fabricating history to try and make Canada look better. Canada has plenty to be proud of, why invent a mythology that makes you look desperate?

Pot? Meet kettle.

– ElbowStrike[/quote]

You aren’t all that sharp, are you?

Roundup: Canada is a great country, Canada was a subject of the British Empire until it finally gained complete independence in 1982 (meaning Canada was a British lapdog during the 1800s), the US still has not lost the War of 1812, and you continue to make the collective IQ in this thread drop like mercury in Whitehorse.

115

[quote]Hagar wrote:
MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:

Hagar wrote:
I’ve always wanted to check it out. I lived in Minnesota for a bit. If I make it up there maybe we could meet up for coffee, or a bite to eat.

How about coffee AND a bite to eat? :smiley: My pleasure to show you the sites.

Susan

I wish I still lived in Minnesota I’d be up there ASAP. If your ever in California I’d love to give you a tour:-) We could go to the pistol range and fire off a few rounds.
[/quote]

Deal:)

Susan

116

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:

You aren’t all that sharp, are you?

Roundup: Canada is a great country, Canada was a subject of the British Empire until it finally gained complete independence in 1982 (meaning Canada was a British lapdog during the 1800s), the US still has not lost the War of 1812, and you continue to make the collective IQ in this thread drop like mercury in Whitehorse.[/quote]

It is beyond your very limited comprehension that there were people who chose to remain citizens of the British Empire for valid reasons.

You have no ability to think beyond your Pro-USA upbringing and consider that there may have been benefits to remaining in the British Empire that far outweighed any reasons for rebelling, and that there were those who freely chose to remain in the Empire because of that fact. That does not make them “lapdogs”, which you have very rudely implied on multiple occasions.

Implying that they are, however, shows how insecure you are in your own national pride. You simply cannot stand that there are people out there who, given the choice, would rather not be American.

Instead of facing your own insecurity, you use a defense mechanism whereby you choose to believe that something must be wrong with those that disagree with you.

I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that you choose to remain American and that the 13 Colonies decided for their own reasons that they would be better off on their own. You seem incapable of doing the same for us.

That, sir, is the trademark of “The Ugly American”.

Good day and an early Happy Independence Day.

– ElbowStrike

117

[quote]MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:
Being a musician I was wondering, how’s the music scene up there? What contributions have you guys made to music in the 20 century. I know about America’s and England’s musical contribution to the world, but is there anything thats come outa Canada thats influenced modern music? I have a lot pride in my country’s musical contributions to the world Jazz, Blues, R&B, rock n roll, metal, country, blue grass, surf, alternative, electronic, modern classical, movie soundtracks just to name a few. Happy Canada day you hosers Peace.

Nelly Furtado
BTO
Joni Mitchell
Big Sugar
April Wine
Alanis Morissette
Sarah McLachlan
Sum 41
Anne Murray
Neil Young
Diana Krall
David Foster
Barenaked Ladies
Leonard Cohen

and even

Tommy Hunter
Guy Lombardo
Gordon Lightfoot
and Robert Goulet

How’s that?:slight_smile:
[/quote]

What’s this? No Tragically Hip?!!!

:wink:

118

[quote]Ontario is amazing. lol If you ever get the chance to visit Canada, you should.

Whaddya say?

Susan[/quote]

I’m either moving to Canada or Scotland. Canada has the best women and Scotland is in England. It’s a toss up.

119

[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:

It is beyond your very limited comprehension that there were people who chose to remain citizens of the British Empire for valid reasons.

You have no ability to think beyond your Pro-USA upbringing and consider that there may have been benefits to remaining in the British Empire that far outweighed any reasons for rebelling, and that there were those who freely chose to remain in the Empire because of that fact. That does not make them “lapdogs”, which you have very rudely implied on multiple occasions.

Implying that they are, however, shows how insecure you are in your own national pride. You simply cannot stand that there are people out there who, given the choice, would rather not be American.[/quote]

Further proof of your ignorance - I never said there were no people who didn’t want to be be American. That is a historical fact - many left for Canada.

But don’t go rabble-rousing for the “right to remain a British subject” and bone up history all because you need a reason to boost your flagging self-esteem.

You started bleating about the US losing the War of 1812 - that was wrong, and ever since you were called on it, you have been trying to find a way out.

Oh, and my not “being able to see past my upbringing” - hilarious.

Thanks for the diagnosis, doc.

No insecurity here - only a desire to right your foolish wrong about history in an attempt feel warm and tingly about being Canadian.

If you read my posts - assuming you can read - I have always suggested Canada was a great country, but I see little reason in trying to pretend that the beating back of American forces in the War of 1812 was some “independent” victory for Canadians when British regulars - mainly the British navy - are the ones responsible for the defense.

Plus, how exactly do you cheer the battle won? “Three cheers to remain a British subject - here’s to subjugation, to kneeling prostrate before a monarchy, to having the courage to remain in a kingdom!!!”

Takes guts, I tell you.

[quote]I am perfectly comfortable with the fact that you choose to remain American and that the 13 Colonies decided for their own reasons that they would be better off on their own. You seem incapable of doing the same for us.

That, sir, is the trademark of “The Ugly American”.[/quote]

Quit sniveling - not until you started your nonsense did I start picking on Canadians, whom I like quite a bit and really enjoy the country. It wasn’t until you tried your hogwash that this got testy.

You can and should feel proud of Canada - just don’t try and sell your silliness to someone who isn’t buying. That isn’t the mark of an “ugly American” - it is just common sense.

120

[quote]Sabrina wrote:
MsM wrote:
Hagar wrote:
Being a musician I was wondering, how’s the music scene up there? What contributions have you guys made to music in the 20 century. I know about America’s and England’s musical contribution to the world, but is there anything thats come outa Canada thats influenced modern music? I have a lot pride in my country’s musical contributions to the world Jazz, Blues, R&B, rock n roll, metal, country, blue grass, surf, alternative, electronic, modern classical, movie soundtracks just to name a few. Happy Canada day you hosers Peace.

Nelly Furtado
BTO
Joni Mitchell
Big Sugar
April Wine
Alanis Morissette
Sarah McLachlan
Sum 41
Anne Murray
Neil Young
Diana Krall
David Foster
Barenaked Ladies
Leonard Cohen

and even

Tommy Hunter
Guy Lombardo
Gordon Lightfoot
and Robert Goulet

How’s that?:slight_smile:

What’s this? No Tragically Hip?!!!

;)[/quote]

Hanging head in shame lol

How I listed Robert Goulet and forgot Tragically Hip, I’ll never know.

Susan;)