Sergius - you said nationally accredited doctors with a PhD. No one with a PhD gets “nationally accredited” in terms of medicine. If you are seeing a PhD for your medical concerns, you need to check yo 'self before you wreck yo 'self.
Also, there are easy ways to combat every single one of the symptoms you named. Increased protein results in kidney pressure - drink more water to dilute the nitrogenous amino waste. Calcium leakage - take a calcium sup or drink milk. Causes osteoporosis - building muscle makes bones stronger, not causing osteo.
Sergius, your doc is full of shit. To just tell you flat out that eating 125 grams of protein is going to damage your health is wrong wrong wrong. Ask him to supply you with evidence and then we’'ll all set about supplying you with evidence to the contrary.
Kidney stones? You know that’s wrong, too. Kidney stones have a significant genetic disposition, unrelated to excess protein consumption. Calcium leaching, bone damage? You know this is bullshit in a healthy weight-training individual that is consuming copious amounts of cottage cheese, yogurt, milk etc. like most of us are.
The benefit to your bones from weight training and a high dietary intake of calcium will far outpace the damage caused by any leaching that might occur.
Your doctor is trapped in a time warp, like most doctors. These studies you quote are almost always based on individuals with kidney damage. Of course they’ll have trouble processing protein.
Facts,
sergius try not to throw that word around so liberally. one study doesn’t mean shit. a couple of dozen well designed and peer reviewed studies pointing in the same direction as far as results go are something quite different.
sure there has to be a level where positives are outweighed by the negatives, but 130g sure as hell aint it.
Also, do you know what a PhD is?
If you have a phd it means you are ‘probably’ very knowledgeable in that specific topic. A phd dont give you universal knowledge. If that doctor has a phd revloving around protein intake affecting kidney function then sure take his advice, other who gives a shit.
Back to my point what is excessive amout of protien? Don’t you guy think too much protien can cause a danger to your health. Again, what do you guys consider is excessive amount of protien.
I do think too much of anyone thing is bad for your health wheather its carbs,fats, or portien.
If you go back and check a PDR from about 1975 to about 1995, it’ll say something to the effect that “There is no evidence that steroids improve athletic performance”.
Now, we all know this to be untrue. (At least, I hope we all know it.) Yet, there it is, despite tons of evidence to the contrary. And a doctor (one who isn’t a steroid specialist) is going to turn to the PDR if he has a question about steroids. He will get the wrong information. Not knowing that it’s wrong, he will proceed to tell his patients this same, erroneous “certified” information.
He has a PhD. He has a medical license. He probably has a lot of experience in his practise.
Just a note, 150 grams of protein is nominal when I only weigh 115lbs.
Two, let me get this straight for everyone, I’m not trying to say that protein is going to kill you, I’m just making a note that it in excess can be detrimental to one’s health. Even water can hurt you in too high of quantities.
And yes, there are studies going both ways which serves to prove nothing other than that just like us, doctors can’t agree either.
JWright-All your points are valid except for that none of those would ameliorate the chronic damage detailed in my later post–(yes I’m sorry, I slipped and wrote PhD isnstead of MD).
The sad part is that the same reasons you are using to discredit my info can be applied to yours as well.
If you want to tell me there is another side, sure, if you want to say I am out and out wrong, you’ll have to back it up with more definitive work and proof that protein cannot do anything to harm you in excess.
Also, if you read T-Mag’s Smart Answers to Tired Old Arguments (something to that tune) you’ll learn that the amount of calcium leeched from your bones as a result of a high-protein diet can be replaced daily with the amount of calcium in one tablespoon of milk.
Howbout we do a study. You take in 125 grams of protein a day for the next 6 months, train as you usually would. And I’ll take in 300-400 grams of protein a day for the next 6 months and I’ll train as I usually would. Then at the end of the 6 months, we’ll compare our LBM gains. Who do you think would have more LBM at the end of that time period?
It’s already all been proven. Joel Marion had a some great responses in another thread or article about it. He discredited every single argument you make. Yeah, too much of anything can kill you. There’s a thing called IC50 (inhibitory concentration 50%) where if a certain amount of anything kills 50% of the people that ingest it, then that is considered the lethal dose. I can’t seem to find the amount of protein, but I’m sure it is WAAAAY up there, like around 1000g.
And no, there is nothing wrong with drinking water to combat the nitrogenous amino waste. All it does is dilute the urine so it flows easier. Calcium supplementation prevents and can reverse osteoporosis. Weight training stops/reverses osteoporosis. All of these are well documented.
I’ll give you an example of a great paper that was published in Nature (one of the best publications for science). This group tried to prove that enzymes can work at concentrations upward of 10^7 or more. They showed that water could exhibit the properties of the enzyme and mimic it’s effects. Holistic practicioners went nuts. This is the kind of stuff they were saying all along!! Low and behold, 1 year later, another lab tried the same thing, without the same “results” the first lab did. Guess what the problem was. The first lab didn’t have a good dishwasher, so the enzyme had enough residue on the sides of the containers to be in solid concentrations - enough to work each subsequent experiment.
It just goes to show that you shouldn’t take heed to everything you read.
No I am a very small Italian guy, who is just going through a cutting phase. It’s 8-10% muscle but yes that’s still light.
I don’t mean to beat an old horse (I’d rather beat mine own) since this protein argument is changing any minds, but going over 150-180g of protein for me then would be excessive.
This is silly. Anyone who weighs 115lbs and considers going on a “cutting phase” has mental problems that will not be covered in an internet discussion forum.
Professor X- Anyone with a 20% body fat should go on a cutting phase then bulk up. That’s what I’m doing, since I am at 8% body fat now I am on my last week of cutting before adding on muscle mass.
Professor X- Anyone with a 20% body fat should go on a cutting phase then bulk up. That’s what I’m doing, since I am at 8% body fat now I am on my last week of cutting before adding on muscle mass.
I don’t agree with you on that. I read what you wrote in the other thread, however, in the average person, someone who only weighs 115lbs should not go on a cutting phase before they add some actual size first especially if they were untrained to begin with. Your body weight is a factor, especially if it is as far beneath the average for those who don’t even train as your’s is. Your condition will promote more fat storage than average, but even with that in mind, the goal should have been to manipulate your diet in a way that reduces carbohydrate and fat intake while not increasing calories that much above maintenance to result in too much fat gain. At your weight and height, you don’t have anything to cut up. I have truly never even seen anyone your height (who is a grown up…you still have not mentioned how old you are) who only weighs that much at that height without looking like a crack addict. Your’s is a special case, but it does not disregard the fact that you are extremely underweight. That, along with the drugs you are taking, could be hazardous if your thoughts have lead you to believe that you were fat regardless of the percentage.
If it makes you feel any better, I’ve noever been healthier than I am now at my current percentage.
FYI, I’m 17.
It’s too bad I didn’t ask more about my diet via body type on the forum before deciding to cut–that’s what this place is for anyway.
Well at least I haven’t been hurt by it and am no longer trying to lose fat, but I will take what you say about training to heart Pro X.
If you ar ehealthy the fact i syou could easily eat as much as 200g of protein per day with NO problems.
As a RD, a former EAS R&D employee, I can tell you your doctor is an old school idiot.
Eat too much protein if your healthy and you will 1. piss it out or 2 gain fat! PERIOD
Per Cy Wilson in issue 229, “Smart Answers to Tired Old Arguments.”
[quote]Tired old argument #3 ? Too much protein is dangerous!
This is bullshit and you should challenge them to find any evidence that demonstrates a high protein intake having any deleterious effects in normal humans who aren’t suffering from renal failure.
Since they’re basing that statement on info derived from studies done with patients who had renal failure, they won’t be able to produce any evidence. Oh, and if they want some “real world” or anecdotal evidence, you can point out that all of those weightlifters and athletes who consumed high amounts of protein since the 1950’s and still continue to do so today have no problems with renal function. If it were true that a high protein intake caused kidney damage, then you’d expect the very opposite ? a virtual epidemic of kidney disease among lifters.
Likewise, the tired old chestnut about high protein diets leading to calcium deficiencies and eventually, brittle old bones is also bullshit. True, high protein diets can cause some calcium to leech out of bones, but the amount lost in a single day can usually be replaced by the amount of calcium contained in single tablespoon of milk.[/quote]