Prostate the Size of a Baseball...

Pharma
1

Hello everyone… it’s been a long time since I have been on the board… life has dealt me some brutal hands lately and just dealing with all of them…
Recently, I had an anterior cervical discectomy with fusion and plating at C6-7. All a result of a nonsensical gym injury back in June… but I do end up with a nice cadiver bone and some titanium in my cervical spine… in any event I feel better from the recent surgery.

I am posting for a couple of reasons… #1 to find out how everyone is doing…? #2 and part b of #1 how the heck is my friend bushy and how did things turn out for him…? and #3 to say that I have a huge prostate.

#3 hurts the worst… doc tested me and my test was >7500 so he thought it best I cut back on my 1000mg of test stacked with tren and mast. The growth he is okay with and in fact prescribed it… ! But he put me on Avadart? Some antibiotics and flomax… the Avardart I guess is like fin and keeps the test from converting to DHT? I haven’t a clue and that’s part of the reason I am writing…

First, Is that test level considered to be obnoxiously high? Next, will my prostate (which obviously is a result of the test) ever shrink? And lastly, I am scared to take the avadart for fear it will undo all the good I have done in terms of building my body into a “machine” 11%bf and twice the size I was 2 years ago…

Thoughs and comments on my other questions?

Glad to be back,

Jet

2

The look of your body should be completely secondary to your internal health.

Your DR prescribed 1000mg or Test and Tren???
Can I get his phone#? :stuck_out_tongue:

3

Are you testing for E2?

E2 is a much greater threat to your prostate than T or DHT! You should be aiming for E2=22pg/ml.

If you were not on adex, that is completely wrong. Adex at 1mg/day may be needed with T levels that high.

What was your FT level?

How has your libido been with that amount of T?

Low DHT can kill libido.

Are you taking hCG to save your testes?

Best place for these issues is not this forum; should be on the over 35.

5

thats about where my test level was when i decided it was time to re-think my priorities so i will issue a little advice from my experience. Use whatever means necessary to monitor E2 (specify sensitive assay for males) get it down in the lower 20’s as ksman said and keep it there, her is why (at least its what i experienced). I came off my heavy usage (similar to yours), the doc did not advise me properly on e2 levels and i had not managed it in the past.

In short my test levels fell rapidly while my e2 level remained stubbornly high. This caused a myriad of issues form sexual problems (as in zero desire or ability) to depression and anxiety (SEVERE). Most have no idea the damage elevated e2 can do in men. Right now you probably don’t sense it because your testosterone is also so high, but trust me as you start to reduce dose it is IMPERATIVE that you push e2 down.

6

[quote]KSman wrote:
Are you testing for E2?

E2 is a much greater threat to your prostate than T or DHT! You should be aiming for E2=22pg/ml.

If you were not on adex, that is completely wrong. Adex at 1mg/day may be needed with T levels that high.

What was your FT level?

How has your libido been with that amount of T?

Low DHT can kill libido.

Are you taking hCG to save your testes?

Best place for these issues is not this forum; should be on the over 35.[/quote]

Yes, testing for E2 and levels came back at…46 pg/ml. Lab called this “In Range”… Doc never mentioned it. DHT never came back “Sample not adequate”…Pregnonolone was <5 NG/DL Range is 23-200… he asked if I was thinking clearly? Told me to pick up some Preg supps at GNC. I am officially polycythemic with outrageous Hemoglobin and Hemocrit levels and low platelet count. Insulin Serum was <2 on a range of <17 Micro IU/ML being considered normal. DHEA 135 45-345 Range. PSA of 2.2 hasn’t moved in 5 years… (I am 48)… No Libido at even that level of test. No rigid erections… IGF-1 is 85… range is 86-220.

He prescribed avadart, flowmax… and HGH… told me to stop immediately AAS until tests this week… Test again, cbc and diff, DHT, estraidol and thyroid series. He isn’t against using the AAS… just trying to get me in order. Very progressive DOC, made major NFL headlines a year or so ago with the HGH… but probably the best full out internist I have ever been to… completely thorough and takes a ton of time with you even though he sees more patients than I have ever seen in a waiting room…

Hope all is well KS thanks for the reply…

I stopped the avadart after the first week… I don’t care for the belly and tits I saw coming… My health is one thing… belly and tits are another… has to be a better way…

The flowmax sucks… I quit that too… just hoping getting off the AAS for a few weeks until I can be re tested will give us a better plan… I can tell the prostate is getting back in order… but definately not there yet.

Thanks again.

7

[quote]morepain wrote:
thats about where my test level was when i decided it was time to re-think my priorities so i will issue a little advice from my experience. Use whatever means necessary to monitor E2 (specify sensitive assay for males) get it down in the lower 20’s as ksman said and keep it there, her is why (at least its what i experienced). I came off my heavy usage (similar to yours), the doc did not advise me properly on e2 levels and i had not managed it in the past.

In short my test levels fell rapidly while my e2 level remained stubbornly high. This caused a myriad of issues form sexual problems (as in zero desire or ability) to depression and anxiety (SEVERE). Most have no idea the damage elevated e2 can do in men. Right now you probably don’t sense it because your testosterone is also so high, but trust me as you start to reduce dose it is IMPERATIVE that you push e2 down. [/quote]

Thanks Pain,

I just wrote KS back and told him as well that the E2 was 46 and considered “In Range”… I know better… If you read my response to KS it will give you the info… I HAD OR HAVE NO LIBIDO WHATSOEVER… fun, eh? These AAS…

But I look really good.

Your point. I get it.

8

Will some one please mention once the prostate is swollen will lowering the e2 be enough to shrink the prostate.

I believe i’ll be watching my e-levels from know on simply pre-cautionary.

Any who good luck with your out come brother!

THE JUDGE

9

There will be some prostate improvement. E2 in the lower 20’s will make a huge difference to the prostate, fat, fat patterns, mental health and libido.

High-normal can make a mess of things, even with very high TT.

Adex dose varies with T levels, one size does not fit all.

Avodart/Dutasteride: Causes birth defects. That means that one cannot donate blood. Hematocrit then cannot be managed with blood donations.

When you lower DHT, the side effects can be a significant problem: “The most common adverse reactions reported in subjects receiving AVODART were impotence, decreased libido, breast disorders (including gynecomastia), and ejaculation disorders. Study withdrawal due to adverse reactions occurred in 4% of subjects receiving AVODART and 3% of subjects receiving placebo. The most common adverse reaction leading to study withdrawal was impotence (1%).[citation needed]”

DHT is needed to maintain libido and the sex organs. Without DHT, the inflamed prostate becomes a smaller inflamed prostate. Low DHT and elevated E2 will still leave what many now consider to be the major problem - E2.

Control of E2 levels should be the baseline and a life long objective. I would be wanting to use 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors as a stepping stone. Using 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors as a baseline does have serious QOL implications.

Flowmax: “Flomax doesn’t shrink the prostate. Instead, it relaxes the muscle around it, freeing the flow of urine and decreasing urinary symptoms.” Flow max can have side effects. I gather from what I have [quickly read] that flowmax addresses the urination symptoms of prostate problems and does not address the causative pathology.

Short term use of a SERM may be needed to manage gyno issues.

When a lab states “in range”, that is simple enough. The damage is done when doctors think that “in [lab statistical range]” is a normal state of health, or when they are absolutely ignorant of the effects of E2 in males.

When one lowers E2 to an optimal range [E2=22pg/ml would be a good target] tissues will change. The increase or decrease of hormones affect tissues by changing gene expression in the cells. That takes time to occur. Do not expect instant changes.

Lower E2 and use a herbal such as:

More reading here:

10

Godspeed your prostate back to golf ball like size! Seriously!

11

Right on ksman that info helps alot in understanding dht and the root problem.

THE OL’ BEAN

12

[quote]KSman wrote:
There will be some prostate improvement. E2 in the lower 20’s will make a huge difference to the prostate, fat, fat patterns, mental health and libido.

High-normal can make a mess of things, even with very high TT.

Adex dose varies with T levels, one size does not fit all.

Avodart/Dutasteride: Causes birth defects. That means that one cannot donate blood. Hematocrit then cannot be managed with blood donations.

When you lower DHT, the side effects can be a significant problem: “The most common adverse reactions reported in subjects receiving AVODART were impotence, decreased libido, breast disorders (including gynecomastia), and ejaculation disorders. Study withdrawal due to adverse reactions occurred in 4% of subjects receiving AVODART and 3% of subjects receiving placebo. The most common adverse reaction leading to study withdrawal was impotence (1%).[citation needed]”

DHT is needed to maintain libido and the sex organs. Without DHT, the inflamed prostate becomes a smaller inflamed prostate. Low DHT and elevated E2 will still leave what many now consider to be the major problem - E2.

Control of E2 levels should be the baseline and a life long objective. I would be wanting to use 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors as a stepping stone. Using 5-alpha-reductase inhibitors as a baseline does have serious QOL implications.

Flowmax: “Flomax doesn’t shrink the prostate. Instead, it relaxes the muscle around it, freeing the flow of urine and decreasing urinary symptoms.” Flow max can have side effects. I gather from what I have [quickly read] that flowmax addresses the urination symptoms of prostate problems and does not address the causative pathology.

Short term use of a SERM may be needed to manage gyno issues.

When a lab states “in range”, that is simple enough. The damage is done when doctors think that “in [lab statistical range]” is a normal state of health, or when they are absolutely ignorant of the effects of E2 in males.

When one lowers E2 to an optimal range [E2=22pg/ml would be a good target] tissues will change. The increase or decrease of hormones affect tissues by changing gene expression in the cells. That takes time to occur. Do not expect instant changes.

Lower E2 and use a herbal such as:

More reading here:

[/quote]

Thanks again KS and all…

Couple of questions:

Because of my concerns about the sides and long-term effects of the Avodart/Dutasteride I stopped taking this drug.

I have stopped all AAS for the time being.

I have stopped the Flomax because I like ejaculating other than into my bladder. I hate that drug.

I continue using GH at only 2iu each evening subcutaneous.

I continue… fish oil, l-arginine, l-lysine, l-carnitine, R-alpha lipoic acid, Biotin, CLA… and B12 and C.

I am wondering if Arimidex would be beneficial at this point… remember that my prostate is painful… well my pelvic wall is aching… hurts like hell at the base of my pubic bone… aches… pain in testicles… ?

I started all of this for the purposes of creating and preserving wellness… it went afoul at some point… I got caught up in loving the way that the AAS made me look and feel… I stopped using A-dex because I just didnt reorder from Chemone… and I am thinking that is the root cause of the HUGE PROSTATE… Am I thinking correctly… that Armidex…may be a part of the solution at this point…?

13

I am not KSman but i think we would agree that you need to get your e2 levels chacked but my assumption would be that yes arimidex would certainly help, your e2 is probably highly elevated. Levels even in the 30’s can be problematic even though your doctor will say that is fine.

14

E2=46 is killing you. Was that E2 lab while on AAS? If so, when off of AAS, your E2 will drop.

Adex is a competitive drug with T for aromatase. When your T levels drop, less is needed and less T is converting to E as well.

You could try .5mg/wk in divided doses while cold turkey, otherwise 1.0mg/wk when using 100mg/wk testosterone ester.

I do not see the point of going to zero testosterone. Better to be on and get your E2 and adex dosing worked out with some lab tests.

15

I agree zero testosterone is just going to cause a myriad of other issues, cut it to 100mg per week and get the e2 down ASAP.

16

Isn’t the zero test going to be necessary to keep androgens low thus not swelling the prostate further?

17

Not really because the rebound effects of no T are going to be terrible. Also, in addition to the fact that E2 is seen as a large problem (pun intended) for the prostate, at physiological levels of T (100 mg/week) you’ll get results from the medication along with avoiding the nasty nasty sides of dropping T levels to nothing. Physiological levels of T and DHT are not generally a problem for prostate growth, although that can change with age and I note the OP is 48. Still, should be low enough to see results from the meds.

18

Hi Jet,
To aid in your prostatic hypertrophy, you may want to add significant amounts of zinc to your supplement regime, about 100 mg with food in divided doses. The prostate needs a LOT of zinc. Testing for pyroluria may be of help as that will affect your ability to absorb zinc. I have had first hand benefit from it as well as many of my male clients. Continued high doeses of zinc will require some copper to be added, about 2-3 mg/day.
Good luck.

19

feel for you. sounds horrible… puts into realization for me how potentially detrimental steroids could be to health and longevity. can a point be reached that homeostasis is never again achieved naturally?

are you willing to sacrifice so much of your hard earned gains for health? whats more important? i could easily be in the same boat as you, as im much younger and do enjoy aas so much that i could easily start the never ending cycle. scary.

i have learned a lesson from your experience.

thank you for that.

good luck

dezz

20

[quote]Dezz wrote:
feel for you. sounds horrible… puts into realization for me how potentially detrimental steroids could be to health and longevity. can a point be reached that homeostasis is never again achieved naturally?

are you willing to sacrifice so much of your hard earned gains for health? whats more important? i could easily be in the same boat as you, as im much younger and do enjoy aas so much that i could easily start the never ending cycle. scary.

i have learned a lesson from your experience.

thank you for that.

good luck

dezz[/quote]

Thanks dezz,

Though, to be sure… it isn’t AAS that has done the “bad” to my body… it’s in fact my “ego” that was the culprit… certainly that must be distinguished…

There isn’t a doubt that any of us using AAS and other “better living through chemistry” supps that cannot agree that you feel and look better… with me at least it I allowed my vanity and ego to interfere with good advice and biomedical sense… (maybe a tad of laziness… I don’t mean physical laziness… but more procrastinating about ordering arimidex or similar… to keep E2 in check…

I will be back on “a” regime of AAS… not necessarily the way I was using them before… but certainly in some way… but smarter this go round… bloodwork… speaking frankly to a professional… (in the biology of all of this)… about what I am doing…

My post in no way was meant to be an indictment of HRT or AAS use… It was more intended for what it apparently has done …and that seems to be opening some ears and eyes to one of the things that can go awry if we don’t “condider the whole”…

I will be back.

:slight_smile: Thanks again.

jet