[quote]ZEB wrote:
Come on we have to take this baby to 2000 posts!
[/quote]
LOL What makes you think that the mods don’t already have a dartboard on the wall with our usernames on it? 2000 posts? Are you smoking some holiday crack? 
And ZEB, I just want to add that your earlier post where you have uppercase text labels “VAGINA” and “RECTUM” and methodically discussed the virtues and qualities of each… priceless. I especially like the part where you describe what the rectum is for. That was comedy gold.
I know girls who LOVE anal sex. Astroglide, baby. Second only to nature. And we didn’t explode or get Hepatitis or die of cancer afterwards. Go figure. Am I unnatural and unholy now? Do I get an aisle seat on the bus trip to hell? Because I really want a window seat. I should start planning now, because my lifespan was just cut short by twenty or thirty years.
Oh! But that was only GAY anal sex that does that, right? Nevermind. No, that wouldn’t make any sense for gay anal sex to be more dangerous because there are currently more gay men per capita infected with HIV or Hepatitis. It has to be something intrinsically wrong with the act of two men having sex. Viruses don’t come into play here.
Whew! I guess I’m okay. Good thing I’m not a fag.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Come on we have to take this baby to 2000 posts!
LOL What makes you think that the mods don’t already have a dartboard on the wall with our usernames on it? 2000 posts?
[/quote]
Naw…the mods love this thread…right? They do don’t they? Hmm
lothario, it’s good to see you back posting again on this thread. What with WMD dropping links which prove my point there has been no real opposition to the truth lately.
Thanks for dropping by!
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
And ZEB, I just want to add that your earlier post where you have uppercase text labels “VAGINA” and “RECTUM” and methodically discussed the virtues and qualities of each… priceless. I especially like the part where you describe what the rectum is for. That was comedy gold.[/quote]
I thought it was needed since some are confused.
Yea, I used to know a kid in grade school who loved to stick pencils up his nose. I mean way up his nose, you could barely see the end of the eraser. It used to scare the teachers right out of their minds. He was really good at it and entertained us on a regular basis. Of course one day he had to be rushed to the emergency room. Seemed that the point of the pencil penetrated a nasal lining that just wasn’t designed for that sort of use.
But it was fun up to that point.
You can also stick your hand in a shark tank 50 times and have nothing happen. Does that mean it’s a safe practice?
You do realize that your making fun of something that you do not understand. You have dismissed Christianity out of hand, with no real investigation on your own part.
How many training books do you condemn without giving them a fair read? It would seem that this is quite a bit more impportant. Why don’t you make a New Years resolution to actually read the New Testament?
What could it hurt?
First ask yourself this: Who was Jesus Christ?
It’s not the Bible, but here is a good place to start
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/jesus.html
Read the entire site by all means. But don’t miss the section entitled: “The Biggest Skeptic In The World:”
Take a look at it-What are you afraid of?
[quote]I should start planning now, because my lifespan was just cut short by twenty or thirty years.
Oh! But that was only GAY anal sex that does that, right? Nevermind. No, that wouldn’t make any sense for gay anal sex to be more dangerous because there are currently more gay men per capita infected with HIV or Hepatitis. It has to be something intrinsically wrong with the act of two men having sex. Viruses don’t come into play here.
[/quote]
You can joke about it, or ignore it. You can even shout it from a roof top. But that doesn’t change the facts my friend:
"Study after study reveals that homosexuality, whether male or female, can take anywhere from 10, 20 to 30 years off of someone’s lifespan. With all the attention on smoking, which the National Cancer Institute says takes from 7 to 10 years off someone’s life, why not the same human outcry on homosexuality?
Here’s a behavior that’s killing people 2 to 3 times the rate of smoking, yet nobody seems to care. In fact, we are encouraging and affirming individuals into the “gay” lifestyle. If you truly love someone, you would steer them away from self-destructive behaviors, rather than towards them, shouldn’t you? Homosexuals need our tough love, not blind love, the kind of love that is going to love them no matter what they say and do. We must extend that helping hand and say " I think your worth saving, let’s work on it together."
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/hosx_lifspn.htm
What you should be asking yourself is this: How can I REALLY help my gay friends?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
lothario, it’s good to see you back posting again on this thread. What with WMD dropping links which prove my point there has been no real opposition to the truth lately.
Thanks for dropping by!
lothario1132 wrote:
And ZEB, I just want to add that your earlier post where you have uppercase text labels “VAGINA” and “RECTUM” and methodically discussed the virtues and qualities of each… priceless. I especially like the part where you describe what the rectum is for. That was comedy gold.
I thought it was needed since some are confused.
I know girls who LOVE anal sex.
Yea, I used to know a kid in grade school who loved to stick pencils up his nose. I mean way up his nose, you could barely see the end of the eraser. It used to scare the teachers right out of their minds. He was really good at it and entertained us on a regular basis.
Of course one day he had to be rushed to the emergency room. Seemed that the point of the pencil penetrated a nasal lining that just wasn’t designed for that sort of use.
But it was fun up to that point.
And we didn’t explode or get Hepatitis or die of cancer afterwards. Go figure.
You can also stick your hand in a shark tank 50 times and have nothing happen. Does that mean it’s a safe practice?
Do I get an aisle seat on the bus trip to hell? Because I really want a window seat.
You do realize that your making fun of something that you do not understand. You have dismissed Christianity out of hand, with no real investigation on your own part.
How many training books do you condemn without giving them a fair read? It would seem that this is quite a bit more impportant. Why don’t you make a New Years resolution to actually read the New Testament?
What could it hurt?
First ask yourself this: Who was Jesus Christ?
It’s not the Bible, but here is a good place to start
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/jesus.html
Read the entire site by all means. But don’t miss the section entitled: “The Biggest Skeptic In The World:”
Take a look at it-What are you afraid of?
I should start planning now, because my lifespan was just cut short by twenty or thirty years.
Oh! But that was only GAY anal sex that does that, right? Nevermind. No, that wouldn’t make any sense for gay anal sex to be more dangerous because there are currently more gay men per capita infected with HIV or Hepatitis.
It has to be something intrinsically wrong with the act of two men having sex. Viruses don’t come into play here.
You can joke about it, or ignore it. You can even shout it from a roof top. But that doesn’t change the facts my friend:
"Study after study reveals that homosexuality, whether male or female, can take anywhere from 10, 20 to 30 years off of someone’s lifespan. With all the attention on smoking, which the National Cancer Institute says takes from 7 to 10 years off someone’s life, why not the same human outcry on homosexuality?
Here’s a behavior that’s killing people 2 to 3 times the rate of smoking, yet nobody seems to care. In fact, we are encouraging and affirming individuals into the “gay” lifestyle. If you truly love someone, you would steer them away from self-destructive behaviors, rather than towards them, shouldn’t you?
Homosexuals need our tough love, not blind love, the kind of love that is going to love them no matter what they say and do. We must extend that helping hand and say " I think your worth saving, let’s work on it together."
http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/22SxSo/PnSx/HSx/hosx_lifspn.htm
Whew! I guess I’m okay. Good thing I’m not a fag.
What you should be asking yourself is this: How can I REALLY help my gay friends?
[/quote]
Zeb…here I was reading your posts and nodding my head in agreement when BAM out of the blue you hit me with the big one.
Do you actually believe that homosexuality can be cured like a runny nose or a bad cough?
Homosexuality is about as curable as being Mexican or Russian or whatever.
Thats it. Once your gay no amount of counseling is going to change someones polar attraction. Nothing short of shock therapy or a frontal lobatomy.
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobatomy.
[quote]Beauzo wrote:
Question: If being gay is “biological”, and therefore some “has no choice, but to be gay”, how would propagation of a species happen?
I believe it is a consious psychosocial decision. It is what someone feels comfortable doing that brings them to this answer that they are gay.
Many gay people say, "Are you crazy? Being gay is torture in society; but wouldn’t that make the choice even easier to be gay? They feel more comfort in the surroundings of other gay people?
What people choose do with their life is their business. Do I approve of it? No. But, I don’t condemn them for it either.
Many christian fanatics continuously pound the hammer, telling gay people they are going to hell and that they hate them, which I find very hipocritical seeing that Jesus taught us to love everyone, and leave the judging to him.
So my feelings are I don’t hate gay people, but I don’t approve of there lifestyle or the fact that they would try to mock the holy sacrement of marriage (which is only reserved for a man and a woman). On the other hand, if they want a civil union, that’s ok by me.[/quote]
well said. i totally agree. laters pk
any sin can be cured. it just needs the full repentence of man. to think otherwise is allowing sin to have control of you. these are all passions we have and me must overcome our passions to have complete union with God.
That is why Orthodoxy (Christianity) is considered a psychotherapy rather then some legal man made religion. And don’t go talking out of ignorance if you don’t know about Orthodoxy. The cure is out there you just have to be able to reach out and want it.
I know how hard that can be considering i live with these struggles and failures every day. Sometimes i feel ignorance is bliss only cause you don’t have any idea about the cures. I would definitely not want to be ignorant and wrong in my lifestyle though.
If you are going to be ignorant you better hope that you are living with goodness in your heart. and how will you ever know if you have true goodness? laters pk
[quote]grey wrote:
Zeb…here I was reading your posts and nodding my head in agreement when BAM out of the blue you hit me with the big one.
Do you actually believe that homosexuality can be cured like a runny nose or a bad cough?
Homosexuality is about as curable as being Mexican or Russian or whatever.
Thats it. Once your gay no amount of counseling is going to change someones polar attraction. Nothing short of shock therapy or a frontal lobatomy.
I’d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobatomy.
[/quote]
Hey Grey,
Let’s look at this from a different angle. Rather than worrying about curing homosexuality on an individual level, let worry about curing it on a country wide level.
My contention is that homosexuality is developed primarily from factors existing outside of the person.
There may be some inward tendancies, but childhood occurances like sexual molestations, rape, abuse, and pornography cause the child to grow with a skewed vision of right and wrong. Absent of these outside influences, I believe many, if not most, children would not grow up to be gay.
It is no secret that homosexual men like young boys. Most have admitted to sex with young boys be it teenager or even younger. And, it is no secret that homosexual men as a group commit a huge percentage of the sex crimes against children. They are more apt to share pornography, molest, and rape young children.
So, the question relating to this thread is, will gay marriage help this problem or cause it to get worse. And, I think any reasonable person would believe it will worsen the problem.
Should we try to coucil and help those who are already admittedly gay? Of course. But, more importantly, we need to do what we can to deter the behavior and protect our youth to lessen this problem over time.
[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
And ZEB, I just want to add that your earlier post where you have uppercase text labels “VAGINA” and “RECTUM” and methodically discussed the virtues and qualities of each… priceless. I especially like the part where you describe what the rectum is for. That was comedy gold.
I know girls who LOVE anal sex. Astroglide, baby. Second only to nature. And we didn’t explode or get Hepatitis or die of cancer afterwards. Go figure. Am I unnatural and unholy now? Do I get an aisle seat on the bus trip to hell? Because I really want a window seat. I should start planning now, because my lifespan was just cut short by twenty or thirty years.
Oh! But that was only GAY anal sex that does that, right? Nevermind. No, that wouldn’t make any sense for gay anal sex to be more dangerous because there are currently more gay men per capita infected with HIV or Hepatitis. It has to be something intrinsically wrong with the act of two men having sex. Viruses don’t come into play here.
Whew! I guess I’m okay. Good thing I’m not a fag.[/quote]
Zeb already responded to this in detail. All I want to say here is, I can not believe we have gone from WMD to this.
I can actually see the inteligence of the opposition decrease as this thread grows. It is really facinating.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
First ask yourself this: Who was Jesus Christ?
It’s not the Bible, but here is a good place to start
http://users.binary.net/polycarp/jesus.html
Read the entire site by all means. But don’t miss the section entitled: “The Biggest Skeptic In The World:”
Take a look at it-What are you afraid of?
[/quote]
BUMP to this!
Any gay, straight, or otherwise person reading this, this messeage is to you.
Don’t live life in ignorance. As a former athiest, I want to tell you what Zeb posted above is the most important thing I have seen in this thread.
With all sincerity, I respectfully ask every person who reads this to check the above links. Ignorance is not bliss.
[quote]pkradgreek wrote:
any sin can be cured. it just needs the full repentence of man. to think otherwise is allowing sin to have control of you. these are all passions we have and me must overcome our passions to have complete union with God.
That is why Orthodoxy (Christianity) is considered a psychotherapy rather then some legal man made religion. And don’t go talking out of ignorance if you don’t know about Orthodoxy. The cure is out there you just have to be able to reach out and want it.
pk[/quote]
Homosexuality is curable? Wow. Scientists are still debating and researching the genetic vs environmental factors that influence hetero vs homosexuality. All that for naught. You already know it’s just a sin, and not only that a curable one.
And Christianity (Orthodoxy) is a psychotherapy? Well Tom Cruise agrees with you. Just a high school education and some Scientology and he knows more about depression than the world’s leading scientists.
Since I am not gay myself, and I have not reviewed all the research, nor spoken to that many gays about the subject, I will simply say I am not qualified to authoritatively state how much is genetic vs environmental and certainly not if its “curable”.
It is ok to have opinions based on some empiric or research data, like mine is it is mostly genetic and not “curable”.
Since you seem to know its a “curable sin”, just because your religion tells you so, you should be glad you were not born in day of the Spanish Inquisition. Then you would believe its ok to not just proclaim the truth, but in fact, enforce it through torture.
oh my goodness, are you telling me that your god abhors homosexuality but condones violence. christianity has a long history of blood letting, i am sure that collectively christianity has cuased more suffering than homosexuality. the proof is in the pudding, you can not escape your history pal.
[quote]spamme wrote:
Since you seem to know its a “curable sin”, just because your religion tells you so, you should be glad you were not born in day of the Spanish Inquisition. Then you would believe its ok to not just proclaim the truth, but in fact, enforce it through torture.
[/quote]
you can only cure a disease if you fight it. If your immune system gives up or is overwhelmed it is a lost battle. For instance lets take myself and my temper. If i don’t practice tolerance and self control i will fail, it is one of the crosses that i have to carry.
I actually feel very fortunate to have been born and raised Orhtodox and self willingly learned what it was all about fairly recently in my life. I have seen many born and batised but who have fallen away. It’s easy not to appreciate certain gifts and i often catch myself falling into this predicament.
Using evil upon humanity to convert people into Christainity is not just. Like i said before, don’t talk about Orthodoxy or confuse it with any man made institution you might know of out of ignorance.
True Orthodoxy has been the same for almost 2000 years and will foreever remain that way. From the time Jesus laid hands on the apostles till the second coming. laters pk
[quote]surfrider542003 wrote:
oh my goodness, are you telling me that your god abhors homosexuality but condones violence. christianity has a long history of blood letting, i am sure that collectively christianity has cuased more suffering than homosexuality. the proof is in the pudding, you can not escape your history pal.[/quote]
Pal?
What do you mean by your God.
People not God start wars and if you know your history it had less to do with religious beliefs and more to do with getting a bigger piece of the pie.
That is not the issue here.
I agree that homosexuality must be prevented at the start of a young life.
Cmon guys… there have been a thousand reasons posted here why Homosexuality is contrary to nature. I mean cmon now.
You can hardly deny that point. It is not natural.
[quote]surfrider542003 wrote:
oh my goodness, are you telling me that your god abhors homosexuality but condones violence. christianity has a long history of blood letting, i am sure that collectively christianity has cuased more suffering than homosexuality. the proof is in the pudding, you can not escape your history pal.[/quote]
You have no idea about Christianity or about the True God. Most people have no idea about Orthodoxy or Christianity’s roots. The roots are still there today. Some just have to dig harder then others to find them.
Talk about blood letting, what did God do for humanity when He was on the cross. You value blood so much but forget that the soul is the real life force. stop worrying about the past and worry about your future.
Homosexuality is a sin, just as is heterosexual relations outside of marriage. People need to stop looking at one issue and look at the big picture which is their own souls. I’m struggling to save my own soul, go take care of your own. just don’t lead others astray. that’s just wrong. laters pk
[quote]pkradgreek wrote:
you can only cure a disease if you fight it. If your immune system gives up or is overwhelmed it is a lost battle. pk[/quote]
My whole question was how do you know homosexuality is a disease or is curable?
I did not ask if its unnatural or deviant or even immoral, thats another issue altogether.
To proclaim it a disease, you must have proof, what is it? If you can’t provide proof, you are simply believing without thinking, and are of the same mindset as those who were guilty of far worse sins in history.
To proclaim there is a cure, you must have proof. Tell me the cure and give me examples of where it worked. Again if you can not give this information, you are simply regurgitating without thinking, which is dangerous.
[quote]spamme wrote:
My whole question was how do you know homosexuality is a disease or is curable?
To proclaim it a disease, you must have proof, what is it? If you can’t provide proof, you are simply believing without thinking, and are of the same mindset as those who were guilty of far worse sins in history.
To proclaim there is a cure, you must have proof. Tell me the cure and give me examples of where it worked. Again if you can not give this information, you are simply regurgitating without thinking, which is dangerous.[/quote]
any human passion is a disease for the soul. passions are blockades between you having communion with God. In Orthodoxy you follow the teachings of the apostles and saints to obtain cures. They have gone through the stages of: purification, illumination and deification.
This has been true and can be seen from examples in the Old and New Testaments as well as other books of Orthodox scripture. The therapies have and will always be the same. They are different for each person, that is why it is important to have proper guidance. God will not force Himself on no one, only to those who want Him.
laters pk
[quote]grey wrote:
Zeb…here I was reading your posts and nodding my head in agreement when BAM out of the blue you hit me with the big one.
Do you actually believe that homosexuality can be cured like a runny nose or a bad cough?[/quote]
All we have been told by the mainstream media is that it’s impossible to change. Most people (including myself until recently) are not even aware of all of the studies which inidicate that it is indeed possibible to change.
I think it is difficult for some to change their same sex attraction, not as difficult for others. Isn’t it also difficult for someone who is an alcoholic to stop drinking, but they do it all the time. (not comparing the two).
Many, many people have dropped their same sex attraction, and there are studies to back this up. The most recent is one by Dr. Robert Spitzer. However, there are many others:
"Dr. Robert Spitzer (2001)
Dr Spitzer is a psychiatry professor at Columbia University. He conducted a study of 143 ex-gays and 57 ex-lesbians who reported that they have become “straight.” 2 He reported his findings at a meeting of the American Psychiatric Association on 2001-MAY-9. He concluded, as a result of 45 minute interviews with each subject, that 66% of the males and 44% of the females had arrived at “good heterosexual functioning.”
According to Cnn.com, that term is defined as having been “in a sustained, loving heterosexual relationship within the past year, getting enough satisfaction from the emotional relationship with their partner to rate at least seven on a 10-point scale, having satisfying heterosexual sex at least monthly and never or rarely thinking of somebody of the same sex during heterosexual sex.”
Bieber, I., et al. (1962) Homosexuality: A Psychoanalytic Study of Male Homosexuals. NY: Basic Books.
?The therapeutic results of our study provide reason for an optimistic outlook. Many homosexuals became exclusively heterosexual in psychoanalytic treatment. Although this change may be more easily accomplished by some than by others, in our judgment a heterosexual shift is a possibility for all homosexuals who are strongly motivated to change.? (p. 319)
Bieber, I., Bieber, T. (1979) Male homosexuality. Canadian Journal of Psychiatry. 24, 5:409-421.
?We have followed some patients for as long as 20 years who have remained exclusively heterosexual. Reversal estimates now range from 30% to an optimistic 50%.? (p.416)
Cappon, D., (1965) Toward an Understanding of Homosexuality. Englewoord Cliffs NJ: Prentice-Hall.
Of patients with bisexual problems 90% were cured (i.e., no reversions to homosexual behavior, no consciousness of homosexual desire and fantasy) in males who terminated treatment by common consent. Male homosexual patients: 80% showed marked improvement (i.e., occasional relapses, release of aggression, increasingly dominant heterosexuality)? 50% changed.? (p. 265-268)
Clippinger, J., (1974) Homosexuality can be cured. Corrective and Social Psychiatry and Journal of Behavior Technology Methods and Therapy. 21, 2:15-28.
?Of 785 patients treated, 307, or approximately 38%, were cured. Adding the percentage figures of the two other studies, we can say that at least 40% of the homosexuals were cured, and an additional 10 to 30% of the homosexuals were improved, depending on the particular study for which statistics were available.? (p. 22)
Fine, R., (1987) Psychoanalytic theory. (in Diamant L. Male and Female Homosexuality: Psychological Approaches. Washington: Hemisphere Publishing.) 81-95.
??a considerable percentage of overt homosexuals became heterosexual? If patients were motivated, whatever procedure is adopted a large percentage will give up their homosexuality? The misinformation that homosexuality is untreatable by psychotherapy does incalculable harm to thousands of men and women?? (p. 85-86)
James, Elizabeth (1978) Treatment of Homosexuality: A Reanalysis and Synthesis of Outcome Studies (unpublished PhD dissertation, Brigham Young University, on file with Brigham Young University Library).
Elizabeth James meta-analyzed over 100 outcome studies published between 1930 and 1976, and concluded that when all the research was combines, 35% of homosexual clients “recovered” and 27% improved.
Kronemeyer, R. (1980) Overcoming Homosexuality. NY: Macmillian
?For those homosexuals who are unhappy with their life and find effective therapy it is ?curable?.? (p.7)
MacIntosh, H. (1995) Attitudes and Experiences of Psychoanalysts in Analyzing Homosexual Patients. Journal of the American Psychiatric Association 1183.
422 psychiatrists were asked if they had successfully treated homosexuals, and did they agree that a homosexual can be changed to heterosexual. Of the 285 responses, which involved 1,215 homosexuals, the survey stated that 23% changed to heterosexuality. 84% benefited significantly by reducing their attraction to other members of the same gender, with a decrease in homosexual activity.
Marmor, J. (1975) Homosexuality and Sexual Orientation Disturbances. (In Freedman, A., Kaplan, H., Sadock, B. Comprehensive Textbook of Psychiatry: II, Second Edition. Baltimore MD: Williams & Wilkins)
?This conviction of untreatability also serves an ego-defensive purpose for many homosexuals. ?however, there has evolved a greater therapeutic optimism about the possibilities for change? There is little doubt that a genuine shift in preferential sex object choice can and does take place in somewhere between 20 and 50 per cent of patients with homosexual behavior who seek psychotherapy with this end in mind.? (p. 1519)
Nicolosi, J., Byrd, A., Potts, R. (1998) Towards the Ethical and Effective Treatment of Homosexuality. Encino CA: NARTH.
Nicolosi surveyed 850 individuals and 200 therapists and counselors ? specifically seeking out individuals who claim to have made a degree of change in sexual orientation.
Before counseling or therapy, 68% of respondents perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entirely homosexual, with another 22% stating they were more homosexual than heterosexual. After treatment only 13% perceived themselves as exclusively or almost entire homosexuality, while 33% described themselves as either exclusively or almost entirely heterosexual, 99% of respondents said they now believe treatment to change homosexuality can be effective and valuable.
Pattison, E.M., Pattison, M.L. (1980, December) ?Ex-Gays?: Religiously Mediated Change in Homosexuals. American Journal of Psychiatry. 137 (12): 1553-1562.
Authors evaluated 11 white men who claimed to have changed sexual orientation from exclusive homosexuality to exclusive heterosexuality. Corollary evidence suggests that the phenomenon of substantiated change in sexual orientation without explicit treatment and/or long-term psychotherapy may be much more common than previously thought.
Rekers, J. (1988) The formation of homosexual orientation. (In Fagan, P. Hope for Homosexuality. Washington DC: Free Congress Foundation.)
?With major research grants from the National Institute of Mental Health, I have experimentally demonstrated an affective treatment for ‘gender identity disorder of childhood’, which appears to hold potential for preventing homosexual orientation in males.?
Schwartz, M.F., Masters, W.H. (1984, February). The Masters and Johnson treatment program for dissatisfied homosexual men. American Journal of Psychiatry. 141 (2): 173-181.
?Certain individuals who want to change their homosexual preference can be helped by a short-term intensive intervention. The failure rate in helping dissatisfied homosexuals establish heterosexual lifestyles after the intensive phase of the intervention was 20.9%, and after 5 years? follow-up it was 28.4%.
Throckmorton, W. (1996) Efforts to modify sexual orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues. Journal of Mental Health and Counseling. 20, 4: 283-305.
?I submit that the case against conversion therapy requires opponents to demonstrate that no patients have benefited from such procedures or that any benefits are too costly in some objective way to be pursued even if they work. The available evidence supports the observation of many counselors ? that many individuals with same-gender sexual orientation have been able to change through a variety of counseling approaches.? (p. 287)
West, D. (1977) Homosexuality Re-examined. London Duckworth
Behavioral techniques have the best document success (never less than 30%); psychoanalysis claims a great deal of success (the average rate seemed to be about 5%, but 50% of the bisexuals achieved exclusive heterosexuality.)
Zucker, K., Bradley, S. (1995) Gender Identity Disorder and Psychosexual Problems in Children and Adolescents. NY: Guilford.
we feel that parental tolerance of cross-gender behavior at the time of its emergence is instrumental in allowing the behavior to develop?? (p. 259)
??In general we concur with those (e.g. Green 1972; Newman 1976; Stoller, 1978) who believe that the earlier treatment begins, the better.? (p. 281) ?It has been our experience that a sizable number of children and their families can achieve a great deal of change. In these cases, the gender identity disorder resolves fully, and nothing in the children?s behavior or fantasy suggests that gender identity issues remain problematic?
All things considered, however, we take the position that in such cases clinicians should be optimistic, not nihilistic, about the possibility of helping the children to become more secure in their gender identity.? (p. 282)"
If the powerful homosexual lobbies and the social liberals would stop claimig that people are “born that way” and stop attacking those who sponsor such studies you would see a great deal more leave the homosexual lifestyle.
It can be done!
[quote]pkradgreek wrote:
The therapies have and will always be the same. They are different for each person
[/quote]
You missed your calling, you should have been a politician.
[quote]surfrider542003 wrote:
oh my goodness, are you telling me that your god abhors homosexuality but condones violence. christianity has a long history of blood letting, i am sure that collectively christianity has cuased more suffering than homosexuality. the proof is in the pudding, you can not escape your history pal.[/quote]
Don’t leave out the part where some have perverted their belifs which have caused great pain to others.
In other words, no where in the Christian Bible does it suggest we (as Christians) are to take up arms and kill others for their lack of faith.
Man will continue to sin, but don’t blame God or the Bible for this!