[quote]orion wrote:
ZEB wrote:
My point still stands. The WORD OF GOD IS THE WORD OF GOD. Or it isn?t. Which is it? Why can you disregard THE WORD OF GOD and others can?t?[/quote]
Please expalain how I am disregarding the word of God.
You have that backwards. There is no Homosexual right to marry currently and there never was. No one is “taking” anything away from anyone.
[/quote]
[quote]orion wrote:
Jane Fonda as Barbarella in the scene with the Orgasmatron… sigh…[/quote]
She was far more appealing in that role than the one she played later on “Hanoi Jane.” 
By not stoning your wife even though she wears stuff made out of two different threads. Sorry. She has to die. God says so.
There is no right? That?s were you and I differ. There does not have to be a god-given right for me. People can do whatever the fuck they want to do. It is not up to you or me to grant or revoke any “right”. Gay people can marry as well as you can whorship a non-existing deity. It is all the same to me.
[quote]orion wrote:
Please expalain how I am disregarding the word of God.
By not stoning your wife even though she wears stuff made out of two different threads. Sorry. She has to die. God says so.
You have that backwards. There is no Homosexual right to marry currently and there never was. No one is “taking” anything away from anyone.
There is no right? That?s were you and I differ. There does not have to be a god-given right for me. People can do whatever the fuck they want to do. It is not up to you or me to grant or revoke any “right”. Gay people can marry as well as you can whorship a non-existing deity. It is all the same to me.[/quote]
And, Im pretty sure you’ve eaten fruit from trees that you’ve owned for less than five years. Or from trees you didn’t own at all!
That’s in Leviticus, too, but for some reason people latch onto the gay thing.
[quote]orion wrote:
There is no right? That?s were you and I differ. There does not have to be a god-given right for me. People can do whatever the fuck they want to do. It is not up to you or me to grant or revoke any “right”. Gay people can marry as well as you can whorship a non-existing deity. It is all the same to me.[/quote]
You can marry whomever, or whatever you like, it is well within your rights. Our gov’t, (as agreed on by the majority of the governed) however will not recognize your marriage as legal.
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Here’s the problem with your thinking: sexuality is NOT A CHOICE.
When, exactly, did you choose your sexuality? If you are a heterosexual (and, for some reason, I’m just gonna assume you are), can you please tell me the moment, or series thereof, that you decided to become aroused by women? To take it further, can you see choosing to become homosexual?
No one on this planet decides what gives them a boner (or a girl-boner). Anyone who says different is trying to sell something.
[/quote]
Sexuality, as it pertains to sexual activity, IS a choice. To say otherwise is to bastardize the fundamentals of sexual acts. If you define sex strictly by stimulation, then you ignore some of the requisite components of sex and acrue some rather extreme, bizarre, and questionable sexual definitions. TC laments about warm breezes being sufficient stimulation, should he be labelled a zephyrsexual? I’m not the only one here who will admit that time and again Britney Spears, Mandy Moore, Jessica Simpson, etc., etc., etc. were sexually stimulating well before legal maturity, it’s not until we pursue the activity of sex with minors that it becomes a legal issue. Not to say that fetishes, illegal sex acts, and homosexuality are the exact same. Just to say that they are very very similar and it’s a legal grey area. And I’d definitely rather keep the law out of my head and pants.
Also, it’s interesting that you ask for the pinpoint event (or series) that led to someone’s sexual orientation. Some people claim to know the exact moment, others have no idea. IMO, it doesn’t matter how, when, what, or where so much as what you do about it after it happens. That being the case, I ultimately believe it to be action defined and therefore a choice.
[quote]orion wrote:
Please expalain how I am disregarding the word of God.
By not stoning your wife even though she wears stuff made out of two different threads. Sorry. She has to die. God says so.[/quote]
Levitical law was in place in the Old Testament for a reason. Would you like to debate that now or on another thread? However, as to the Bible, Christ’s arrival removed the heavy burden of Levitical law and replaced it with faith in Christ. So you say: AHA then homosexuality is perfectly fine and dandy according to your very own words. We got you Zeb you no good rotten Christian #^# so and so.
Not so fast. Homosexuality is strictly forbidden in the New Testament in several passages.
For those of you who have missed earlier homosexual debates this is the part where my opponents(s) will attempt to refute the New Testament. Usually by clicking on the many Gay web sites which attempt to rationalize the act of homosexuality. It never ever works out for them as the facts are on my side.
I then refute each position one by one using the original Hebrew or Greek text (depending on the circumstance). It gets rather boring and lengthy and eventually you will stop viewing this thread. However, once begun I will continue until every last point has been discussed as there is no provision for allowing Homosexuality in either the Old or the New testament. So…you can practice homosexuality all you want, this is America! But, sorry you just can’t back it up with the Bible…
(yawn)
Oh darn it you have that all wrong…
You see it’s not about a “God given right.” If you noticed I never mentioned God when I stated that Homosexuals have never had the right to marry. It’s about society, and even though you hate it we do have laws. And while you like to think that you can do anything you want…you can’t…sorry.
Homosexuals not having the right to marry is only one moral law on the books there are many…
Okay?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
orion wrote:
Please expalain how I am disregarding the word of God.
By not stoning your wife even though she wears stuff made out of two different threads. Sorry. She has to die. God says so.
Levitical law was in place in the Old Testament for a reason. Would you like to debate that now or on another thread? However, as to the Bible, Christ’s arrival removed the heavy burden of Levitical law and replaced it with faith in Christ. So you say: AHA then homosexuality is perfectly fine and dandy according to your very own words. We got you Zeb you no good rotten Christian #^# so and so.
Not so fast. Homosexuality is strictly forbidden in the New Testament in several passages.
For those of you who have missed earlier homosexual debates this is the part where my opponents(s) will attempt to refute the New Testament. Usually by clicking on the many Gay web sites which attempt to rationalize the act of homosexuality. It never ever works out for them as the facts are on my side.
I then refute each position one by one using the original Hebrew or Greek text (depending on the circumstance). It gets rather boring and lengthy and eventually you will stop viewing this thread. However, once begun I will continue until every last point has been discussed as there is no provision for allowing Homosexuality in either the Old or the New testament. So…you can practice homosexuality all you want, this is America! But, sorry you just can’t back it up with the Bible…
(yawn)
There is no right? That?s were you and I differ. There does not have to be a god-given right for me. People can do whatever the fuck they want to do. It is not up to you or me to grant or revoke any “right”. Gay people can marry as well as you can whorship a non-existing deity. It is all the same to me.
Oh darn it you have that all wrong…
You see it’s not about a “God given right.” If you noticed I never mentioned God when I stated that Homosexuals have never had the right to marry. It’s about society, and even though you hate it we do have laws. And while you like to think that you can do anything you want…you can’t…sorry.
Homosexuals not having the right to marry is only one moral law on the books there are many…
Okay?
[/quote]
okay, tell me where it says in the new testament that it is evil.
After that I shall quote moronic passages out of the new testament. Yippee.
And yes, I do think I have the right to do whatever I want. I also live that way, a lot of people know it, noone has reported me to the authorities so far. You wouldn?t have either, because you?d know I would not harm you or your familiy. So, what is your problem, with me disregarding Austrian law?
[quote]lucasa wrote:
harris447 wrote:
Here’s the problem with your thinking: sexuality is NOT A CHOICE.
When, exactly, did you choose your sexuality? If you are a heterosexual (and, for some reason, I’m just gonna assume you are), can you please tell me the moment, or series thereof, that you decided to become aroused by women? To take it further, can you see choosing to become homosexual?
No one on this planet decides what gives them a boner (or a girl-boner). Anyone who says different is trying to sell something.
Sexuality, as it pertains to sexual activity, IS a choice. To say otherwise is to bastardize the fundamentals of sexual acts. If you define sex strictly by stimulation, then you ignore some of the requisite components of sex and acrue some rather extreme, bizarre, and questionable sexual definitions. TC laments about warm breezes being sufficient stimulation, should he be labelled a zephyrsexual? I’m not the only one here who will admit that time and again Britney Spears, Mandy Moore, Jessica Simpson, etc., etc., etc. were sexually stimulating well before legal maturity, it’s not until we pursue the activity of sex with minors that it becomes a legal issue. Not to say that fetishes, illegal sex acts, and homosexuality are the exact same. Just to say that they are very very similar and it’s a legal grey area. And I’d definitely rather keep the law out of my head and pants.
Also, it’s interesting that you ask for the pinpoint event (or series) that led to someone’s sexual orientation. Some people claim to know the exact moment, others have no idea. IMO, it doesn’t matter how, when, what, or where so much as what you do about it after it happens. That being the case, I ultimately believe it to be action defined and therefore a choice.[/quote]
So, should people with homosexual urges make the “choice” to not act upon them?
I used to get riled up when people would look for minority status for homosexuals. My argument was that acting on homosexual urges is a choice. Whether or not you have brown skin or a penis is not a choice. Well, Michael Jackson proved me wrong (on both points?)
[quote]harris447 wrote:
When, exactly, did you choose your sexuality? If you are a heterosexual (and, for some reason, I’m just gonna assume you are), can you please tell me the moment, or series thereof, that you decided to become aroused by women? To take it further, can you see choosing to become homosexual?
No one on this planet decides what gives them a boner (or a girl-boner). Anyone who says different is trying to sell something.
[/quote]
If babies are born gay, then homosexuality should be considered a birth defect.
I dont care what gay people do with each other. But in my opinion the word in itself as well as the action of Marriage is a religious ceremony between a man and a woman. If gay people want the same thing why not call it Gayriage and create their own ceremony. Also i dont understand gay peoples problem with certain religious groups not accepting them. Religion is a set of beliefs, and if these beliefs dont include you, why would you even want to be a part of it.
[quote]orion wrote:
okay, tell me where it says in the new testament that it is evil.[/quote]
Evil? Did I say evil? It is simply sin. No different than any other sin.
Okay here we go (again):
Name Reference
vile affections Rom 1:26
without natural affection Rom 1:31
effeminate (homosexuals) 1 Cor 6:9
abusers of themselves with mankind 1Cor 6:9
inordinate affection Col 3:5
defile themselves with mankind 1 Tim
1:10
without natural affection 2 Tim 3:3
going after strange flesh Jude 1:7
And actually I think there are others. But these are the ones which I happen to have on hand. My advice is that you read them in their entirity yourself, don’t take my word for it. And in case you want to use the “interpretation” defense that won’t work as they have all been cross referenced with original text. Each word has also been traced back to it’s original meaning.
Oh…and the “there was no such word as homosexual back then” defense won’t work either. You know what they say: a rose by any other name…yada yada yada.
I did all this last summer when I was debating another on the same topic. It was quite interesting.
It is comforting to know that you would not harm me or my family
[quote]So, what is your problem, with me disregarding Austrian law?
[/quote]
It is further comfort to know that you live in Austria…
[quote]JTS wrote:
harris447 wrote:
When, exactly, did you choose your sexuality? If you are a heterosexual (and, for some reason, I’m just gonna assume you are), can you please tell me the moment, or series thereof, that you decided to become aroused by women? To take it further, can you see choosing to become homosexual?
No one on this planet decides what gives them a boner (or a girl-boner). Anyone who says different is trying to sell something.
If babies are born gay, then homosexuality should be considered a birth defect.[/quote]
Please tell me you’re kidding. You’re kidding, right?
[quote]harris447 wrote:
So, should people with homosexual urges make the “choice” to not act upon them?
[/quote]
I think that is an interesting question. I have been married for almost 20 years and I have never cheated on my wife. Oh…I have some urges to do so …but somehow resisted.
(Keep in mind in a free society that homosexuality is perfectly alright. As I have stated it’s America!)
Why did I resist? LAWYERS MAN!
No seriously, I think that it would obviously have a negative effect on my (very good) marriage. Beyond that I feel that it’s morally wrong. Oh no…I used the word “morally.” “DON’T PASS YOUR MORALS OFF AS MINE ZEB GRRRR.” All of the relativists will hate that one. But, there are plenty of “moral” laws huh? How dare they?
Oh well…society is society.
Can people be tempted to do the wrong thing? Sure it happens all the time. Not just with adultery. Stealing; rape; lying, hey there’s a whole bunch of sins huh? Oh and I’m not trying to say that what happens between two adults in the privacy of their own home has anything to do with the above short list of actual crimes (see above where I praise freedom). I’m simply talking about temptation here as that is the topic.
Sure the “urge” can be resisted and there is even some evidence that homosexuals can be changed. Oh WOW did I ever commit a faux pas with that line.
Okay here is some reading for you. You won’t like it and you will question the source and put up all sorts of nasty things about the writers. But the bottom line is that it makes as much sense as people being “born that way.” And at least has the same amount of science behind it…which is NOT MUCH.
A good question to explore would be: I wonder how someone could ever “change” who is born that way? Yet, many have. Interesting I think, after all you can’t change the color of your skin huh?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
So, should people with homosexual urges make the “choice” to not act upon them?
I think that is an interesting question. I have been married for almost 20 years and I have never cheated on my wife. Oh…I have some urges to do so …but somehow resisted.
(Keep in mind in a free society that homosexuality is perfectly alright. As I have stated it’s America!)
Why did I resist? LAWYERS MAN!
No seriously, I think that it would obviously have a negative effect on my (very good) marriage. Beyond that I feel that it’s morally wrong. Oh no…I used the word “morally.” “DON’T PASS YOUR MORALS OFF AS MINE ZEB GRRRR.” All of the relativists will hate that one. But, there are plenty of “moral” laws huh? How dare they?
Oh well…society is society.
Can people be tempted to do the wrong thing? Sure it happens all the time. Not just with adultery. Stealing; rape; lying, hey there’s a whole bunch of sins huh? Oh and I’m not trying to say that what happens between two adults in the privacy of their own home has anything to do with the above short list of actual crimes (see above where I praise freedom). I’m simply talking about temptation here as that is the topic.
Sure the “urge” can be resisted and there is even some evidence that homosexuals can be changed. Oh WOW did I ever commit a faux pas with that line.
Okay here is some reading for you. You won’t like it and you will question the source and put up all sorts of nasty things about the writers. But the bottom line is that it makes as much sense as people being “born that way.” And at least has the same amount of science behind it…which is NOT MUCH.
A good question to explore would be: I wonder how someone could ever “change” who is born that way? Yet, many have. Interesting I think, after all you can’t change the color of your skin huh?
http://www.narth.com/docs/maranatha.html[/quote]
regarding the site…wow, that’s an evil fucking thing.
But, here’s the follow-up question: if homosexuals can be “changed”, could you?
[quote]harris447 wrote:
http://www.narth.com/docs/maranatha.html
But, here’s the follow-up question: if homosexuals can be “changed”, could you?
[/quote]
The premise is that homosexuals can be changed because their “natural” orientation is indeed heterosexual. Is this true? I have no idea! However, many have changed, so how do you figure that one?
[quote]harris447 wrote:
Scott1010220 wrote:
aikigreg wrote:
Nobody chooses to be the most persecuted subsect of humanity. Many fight it all their lives. I used to be ignorant like you. Try and educate yourself a little better, willya?
News flash. One of your guy friends is gay. That’s how I found out what an idiot I was.
Oh, and I’m pretty sure if you’re laughing at the gay guy in front of St. Peter, you’re likely not getting in, regardless of whether HE is or not.
Wow, so now the fags are the most persecuted subject of humanity.
I guess we can forget the suffereing the Jews faced from Hitler, and the suffering that the Africans faced as slaves, because we all know that “Lance & Skip”, “are the most persecuted subject of humanity”.
Give me a fucking break.
Forget politics and religion.
Here it is, plain and simple, having a dick is biology, where you put it is choice.
So…you CHOSE to be heterosexual? One day, you just sat down and said, “Y’know, I think boobs are going to give me an erection.”
No. Of course you didn’t.
As a matter of fact it was the second grade. Her name was Courtney. I was seven years old. It wasn’t a boner, but I knew.
Bu, you did CHOOSE to let everyone know–in no uncertain terms–that you were an idiot. Nice work!
So pointing out the obvious makes me an idiot. I guess compared to being a
“genuine” cocksucker that’s okay.
Once again, so everybody gets it, having a dick is biology, where you stick it is choice.
[/quote]
[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
http://www.narth.com/docs/maranatha.html
But, here’s the follow-up question: if homosexuals can be “changed”, could you?
The premise is that homosexuals can be changed because their “natural” orientation is indeed heterosexual. Is this true? I have no idea! However, many have changed, so how do you figure that one?
[/quote]
I reeeeeeally doubt any of them have changed. In fact, I’d bet my house on it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
harris447 wrote:
http://www.narth.com/docs/maranatha.html
But, here’s the follow-up question: if homosexuals can be “changed”, could you?
The premise is that homosexuals can be changed because their “natural” orientation is indeed heterosexual. Is this true? I have no idea! However, many have changed, so how do you figure that one?
[/quote]
Well guys, if everyone were to submit their daughters to my therapy, I’d probably turn many of them into raving whores, any volunteers?