Good luck finding any prohormones/designer steroids these days. The FDA is on a witchhunt and many companies are liquidating stock.
Westclock- What do you have against tren clones? I was thinking about an epi/tren stack in the future, but haven’t really done much research into it yet.
[quote]forkknifespoon wrote:
Good luck finding any prohormones/designer steroids these days. The FDA is on a witchhunt and many companies are liquidating stock.
Westclock- What do you have against tren clones? I was thinking about an epi/tren stack in the future, but haven’t really done much research into it yet.[/quote]
They aren’t actually based on real pharmaceutical steroids. They aren’t even actually based on tren, they just named them like that so people would buy them. They are oral progestins. They have much more progestin activity than actual anabolic activity.
Meaning that building muscle is technically a side effect.
Basically they are birth control pills that HAPPEN to have a slight anabolic effect if you dose them high enough.
They do seem to work, but that’s kinda besides the point. Something like hdrol and even superdrol is actually based on something that has been used and tested by the medical community, and is less likely to cause you to lactate or permanently damage your endocrine system.
My absolute biggest problem with “trens” is that they ARE NOT even MORE EFFECTIVE than the other less bizarre Prohormones. They are pretty much the same, hell in most cases they actually COST more.
The “trens” are medically and even anecdotally untested; long term, more expensive, not well understood, and based on a very reckless concept.
The other PH’s are based on drugs that have been used for decades, and the other PH’s have a much longer track record of positive usage and recovery.
People should just stick to the cheap stuff that has been proven safe enough and effective.
There’s no reason to try the new dangerous kid on the block that doesn’t even produce better gains. Its a completely unsubstantiated risk.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
They aren’t actually based on real pharmaceutical steroids. They aren’t even actually based on tren, they just named them like that so people would buy them. They are oral progestins. They have much more progestin activity than actual anabolic activity.
Meaning that building muscle is technically a side effect.
Basically they are birth control pills that HAPPEN to have a slight anabolic effect if you dose them high enough.
They do seem to work, but that’s kinda besides the point. Something like hdrol and even superdrol is actually based on something that has been used and tested by the medical community, and is less likely to cause you to lactate or permanently damage your endocrine system.
My absolute biggest problem with “trens” is that they ARE NOT even MORE EFFECTIVE than the other less bizarre Prohormones. They are pretty much the same, hell in most cases they actually COST more.
The “trens” are medically and even anecdotally untested; long term, more expensive, not well understood, and based on a very reckless concept.
The other PH’s are based on drugs that have been used for decades, and the other PH’s have a much longer track record of positive usage and recovery.
People should just stick to the cheap stuff that has been proven safe enough and effective.
There’s no reason to try the new dangerous kid on the block that doesn’t even produce better gains. Its a completely unsubstantiated risk.[/quote]
After reading more about it, they sound pretty terrifying. I ended up grabbing a bottle along with some other things while some online dealers were getting raided. It was just too tempting to have a non-methylated product to stack with my methyls. So, I’m not entirely sure what to do with it now… Any advice? If I were to run it, is there anything I could do to make it less dangerous?
On a side note, I’ve pretty much come to understand PCT as just running a SERM and keeping up with your liver protection. A lot of people run AI’s, but a lot of people say they’re counter productive to run. A lot of people also run test-boosters, but most of those rely on anecdotal proof of their validity. the only thing that seems very worth it would be a cortisol regulating product (phosphatadylserine? which is terribly expensive to run at adequate doses). Am I way off with my understanding of things?
I’m excited to run some of the other designer steroids, but I’m a little worried about the after effects of my epistane cycle. It went very well, but near the end my nipples became a little sensitive, and it has continued into PCT. I’ve been on nolvadex for 2 1/2 weeks trying to run it at 30/30/20/10. They don’t feel painful or produce fluid, but they are slightly sensitive to touch and seem a little more pronounced. It is starting to get cold here and I ‘nip’ through my t-shirts practically 24/7. Any advice? Should I run nolva for longer? or up the dose?
Thanks for all the help guys
[quote]forkknifespoon wrote:
Westclock wrote:
They aren’t actually based on real pharmaceutical steroids. They aren’t even actually based on tren, they just named them like that so people would buy them. They are oral progestins. They have much more progestin activity than actual anabolic activity.
Meaning that building muscle is technically a side effect.
Basically they are birth control pills that HAPPEN to have a slight anabolic effect if you dose them high enough.
They do seem to work, but that’s kinda besides the point. Something like hdrol and even superdrol is actually based on something that has been used and tested by the medical community, and is less likely to cause you to lactate or permanently damage your endocrine system.
My absolute biggest problem with “trens” is that they ARE NOT even MORE EFFECTIVE than the other less bizarre Prohormones. They are pretty much the same, hell in most cases they actually COST more.
The “trens” are medically and even anecdotally untested; long term, more expensive, not well understood, and based on a very reckless concept.
The other PH’s are based on drugs that have been used for decades, and the other PH’s have a much longer track record of positive usage and recovery.
People should just stick to the cheap stuff that has been proven safe enough and effective.
There’s no reason to try the new dangerous kid on the block that doesn’t even produce better gains. Its a completely unsubstantiated risk.
After reading more about it, they sound pretty terrifying. I ended up grabbing a bottle along with some other things while some online dealers were getting raided. It was just too tempting to have a non-methylated product to stack with my methyls. So, I’m not entirely sure what to do with it now… Any advice? If I were to run it, is there anything I could do to make it less dangerous?
On a side note, I’ve pretty much come to understand PCT as just running a SERM and keeping up with your liver protection. A lot of people run AI’s, but a lot of people say they’re counter productive to run. A lot of people also run test-boosters, but most of those rely on anecdotal proof of their validity. the only thing that seems very worth it would be a cortisol regulating product (phosphatadylserine? which is terribly expensive to run at adequate doses). Am I way off with my understanding of things?
I’m excited to run some of the other designer steroids, but I’m a little worried about the after effects of my epistane cycle. It went very well, but near the end my nipples became a little sensitive, and it has continued into PCT. I’ve been on nolvadex for 2 1/2 weeks trying to run it at 30/30/20/10. They don’t feel painful or produce fluid, but they are slightly sensitive to touch and seem a little more pronounced. It is starting to get cold here and I ‘nip’ through my t-shirts practically 24/7. Any advice? Should I run nolva for longer? or up the dose?
Thanks for all the help guys[/quote]
Just stack the methyls if you must stack things.
I’m going to level with you…the toxicity of orals is overstated, and its INTENTIONAL.
If you have a healthy liver, your not a big drinker (your a lifter), and you dont drink at all, even casually, on cycle.
4 weeks of ANYTHING is barely going to put a dent in your liver.
Might screw your values a little bit if your dosing high, but as soon as you get on that SERM, they bounce right back in days.
This is a dangerous thing to say to most, because they hear what I just said and use it as an excuse to drink on cycle while running orals for extended periods of time, etc.
But for a 4-5 weeker, running 2 methyls isnt going to hurt anything as long as your careful.
On cycle I have run dbol at 50mg for 10 weeks before and drank a little as well, a week into the PCT my values were fine according to blood work.
I was younger and very stupid, and I got lucky.
Not everyone will get lucky. But for most 4-5 weeks isnt much of a risk.
If your worried get blood work after 2 weeks, if your shit is crashing, just go straight to PCT. Blood work makes everything safer.
I run a low dose letro, which is an AI in the PCT, even though it and nolva supposedly interfere with each other…whatever. I simply adjust the dose, as soon as I stop injecting test I obviously need less AI…
Anyways, low dose AI usage in the PCT is fine, its not recommended to most because you can easily do more harm than good if you dont know what your doing and mess up.
AI’s boost test levels and further control estrogen levels. SERMs dont control estrogen, they merely block its effects.
AI’s in a PH cycle is kinda overkill, but if you feel confident you can manage the dose appropriately then by all means go ahead.
Look up Bill Roberts Low dose, daily, letro protocol for more information, its pretty simply.
OTC test boosters can improve libido, they dont boost test, for some it appears they may even boost estrogen…which lowers test.
They are useful if you have libido problems, but I wouldn’t buy anything that’s more than 10-15 bucks, spend your money on something that does something.
Cortisol control…eh kinda new, not sure how well it works, Id say avoid it, it probably isn’t helping much and its very expensive.
Ok for your PCT heres the deal.
Blood work half way through week 4.
See if your body is normalizing.
If its not, keep taking nolva at 20mg/day until you feel normal, then get blood work done to confirm this.
The PCT doesn’t HAVE to be 4 weeks, just keep running that SERM until you feel good to go and blood work confirms it.
If your still not normalizing, and estrogen is staying elevated, come back and tell me.
You might need a few weeks of letro or adex, that fixes people most of the time if just the SERM isnt doing the whole trick.
I dont know if you guys talked about this or not but my eyes were geting sore from trying to read 29 pages. I just got done with the halotest-25 and pct cycle and made great strength gains. Anybody else take this and what are the opinions on it?
[quote]Roscoe28 wrote:
I dont know if you guys talked about this or not but my eyes were geting sore from trying to read 29 pages. I just got done with the halotest-25 and pct cycle and made great strength gains. Anybody else take this and what are the opinions on it?[/quote]
PH’s and DS’s aren’t so popular around here so you should post the active chemical so we know what you are actually using. Or post what that is a clone of, if it is an active anabolic steroid.
Halotest-25 contains 4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17b-diol. Its suppose to be one of the more popular PH’s on the market…untill the ban it…
[quote]Roscoe28 wrote:
Halotest-25 contains 4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene3, 17b-diol. Its suppose to be one of the more popular PH’s on the market…untill the ban it…[/quote]
That looks similar to the current halodrol clones…
But it is not, the structure is a little different.
Im not very familiar with it, so I cant really comment, but from what I have read it has similar effects, perhaps a little more androgenic, which could lead to more sideeffects depending on the user.
It can not convert to estrogen compounds, and it is based on tbol’s structure more or less…so I doubt your going to get anything crazy like progestin activity or anything, but its nearly impossible to say just looking at the compound.
Small structural changes can have huge effects, be careful with the “new stuff” they rarely understand how or why alot of this stuff works they just throw it on the market.
And it never works better than the basic stuff that is pharmaceutical derived, sometimes its almost or even just as good.
But Ive never seen it be better, so dont bother experimenting.
Still haven’t stepped up the the PH water yet, even though I have mdrol and nolva on hand. But just for kicks, I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on Iforce’s protodrol. I could not easily find the specific compound but one forum said its 17a-methyl-5androst-17b-ol.
Any opinions? I am a little bit hesitant to start with a strong(er) ph like mdrol and was maybe thinking of a supposedly “safer” one like protodrol first, and saving the mdrol for later.
[quote]ajweins wrote:
Still haven’t stepped up the the PH water yet, even though I have mdrol and nolva on hand. But just for kicks, I am wondering if anyone has an opinion on Iforce’s protodrol. I could not easily find the specific compound but one forum said its 17a-methyl-5androst-17b-ol.
Any opinions? I am a little bit hesitant to start with a strong(er) ph like mdrol and was maybe thinking of a supposedly “safer” one like protodrol first, and saving the mdrol for later.[/quote]
If your worried start with epistane/havoc or hdrol.
If anything havoc is mild and yet one of the best PH’s out there in terms of strength and solid gains.
Hey, new to the PH scene, and so I’ve been reading this thread lately. Wanted to make sure my pct was acceptible for the following ph. I plan on taking Finaflex 550 XD, which has the following compounds in it:
2a,17a-Dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one, 17Ã?-ol 10mg
Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione 25mg
Bergamottin (6, 7,-dihydroxybergamottin (DHB) 50mg
3, 17 ketoetiochol-triene 10mg
Milk Thistle (80% Silymarian) 120mg
NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) 250mg
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 50mg
I understand that the milk thistle is not adequate liver support, so I’ll also be taking Liv52 with this. My proposed PCT was a standard 40/40/20 of nolva. Thoughts?
[quote]msanchez123321 wrote:
Hey, new to the PH scene, and so I’ve been reading this thread lately. Wanted to make sure my pct was acceptible for the following ph. I plan on taking Finaflex 550 XD, which has the following compounds in it:
2a,17a-Dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one, 17Ã??-ol 10mg
Estra-4,9-diene-3,17-dione 25mg
Bergamottin (6, 7,-dihydroxybergamottin (DHB) 50mg
3, 17 ketoetiochol-triene 10mg
Milk Thistle (80% Silymarian) 120mg
NAC (N-Acetyl Cysteine) 250mg
Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) 50mg
I understand that the milk thistle is not adequate liver support, so I’ll also be taking Liv52 with this. My proposed PCT was a standard 40/40/20 of nolva. Thoughts?[/quote]
Its a stack of superdrol and a progestin based compound much like the “tren PH’s”.
Its not actually tren, and I have said many times to stay away from progestin based shit.
But that is up to you.
I would highly recommend a full PCT 40/40/20/20, with anything.
As long as your not running longer than 6 weeks of orals, and even if you are, liver support isnt going to help THAT much.
I would take a little milk thistle just because its cheap, but dont bother buying any liver support products.
Liver support helps but not enough for it to make any critical differences, its insignificant
Unless you have underlying liver problems or drink a shit load of alcohol on cycle, your not likely to be able to do much damage to your liver that the PCT will not rapidly correct.
Westclock, from what I understand, a major issue with progestins is the specific gyno that can arise (progestin-induced? forget the exact name). From what I’ve read here, a way to combat that is through taking B6. Is there any other way to counteract/prevent it? I read that a normal AI wouldn’t be effective. In addition to this, what do you think is the biggest risk in taking this compound? The official name is Finaflex 550-XD (just in case you’ve heard of it). I was able to get my hands on some because it had just been banned by the FDA, so got it quite cheap. Per usual, I don’t plan on drinking while on cycle at all. Was planning on running it 30 days.
It is my understanding that progestin “PH’s” are closer to birth control pills than they are to classic anabolic steroids. The biggest risk is that the side effects are more unpredictable than traditional steroids. And that in conjuction with those side effects come lackluster gains. That product has superdrol though, which is a strong drug and will facilitate gains. Superdrol has its own set of ‘harsh’ sides as well though.
How about just using testosterone and not play roulette with your general short term health.
Indeed.
Superdrol is a fairly standard PH, its not any harsher than any other oral with the exceptions of primo, etc.
But considering that almost all orals have pretty harsh sides in terms of liver toxicity and such, it would not be incorrect to say so.
Superdrol is not a progestin, the product contains superdrol and a progestin that is in the “trens”
The progestin PH’s do produce gains but since they are poorly designed compounds their progestin activity is higher than anabolic.
Considering all steroids are a gamble with your endocrine system, a progestin based compound is worse.
How much worse is impossible to say, there is literally no testing done on them of any kind.
So, when you say an effect on the endocrine system, you think it’s possible that a progestin-based PH can permanently damage the system? From what I understand, the endocrine system is responsible for hormonal activity, such as releasing and regulating hormones and such. What kind of damage do you foresee happening?
What are your views on using Caber for combating the gyno?
I am new to this forum. Currently I am sitting at about 5’10 and 175 pounds. I just got done playing college football and am currently playing semi pro ball now. I was wondering what right now is the best stack of PH out there. I was wanting to pack on to about 190 and keep my body fat down in the 6-9 range.
I am an advanced lifter (obvious with the years of football) and my nutrition is very clean and at the 6-8 meals a day range clean carbs protein and fats. I am just not up with the pro hormones on the market now. I have used things such as ANIMAL test by universal and T3 by nxcare without many results and I am tired of all the false promises that the NO boosters put down. Any help with the subject at hand would be greatly appreciated.
How long should I wait after a tbol cycle to do a pro hormone cycle?
[quote]BLS2009 wrote:
How long should I wait after a tbol cycle to do a pro hormone cycle?[/quote]
Use the standard cycle formula, you treat them just like any other oral steroid.
Time on and PCT = time off.
So if it was 5 weeks of tbol and a 4 week PCT, take 9 weeks off.