ProHormones-All You Need to Know

Pharma
701

Hello, I just Joined T-Nation and i love all the info you guys provide. I have a question about prohormones. Basically i just want to know if i’m a good candidate for them. They are being banned so my nutrition store only has what it has now then they’re done. So i just want to know if i should start now because i don;t want to miss out on a good thing. Let me give you my profile

I used to be 230 pounds(mostly fat) because i ate emotionally during high school,then i went to my library and book stores to educate myself on nutrition. I put myself on my own diet and within a year i lost 90 lbs(140 at 5’10 i looked like an ectomorph). Then i started to lift since i already made a strict diet habitual. In a year and a half i gained 22 lbs, still around 10-13% body fat. Right now i’m 23 years old, My diet consists of
Meal 1
1/2C Oat Bran
1/2C Wheat Bran
scoop whey protein
Tablespoon olive oil

Meal 2
6 oz Flank Steak
1/2 Cooked beans
Vegtables that consists of broccoli, spinich , tomatoes, basically all low glycemic fiberous vegtables
1/4 avocado
spices

Meal 3
6 oz Flank Steak
1/2 Cooked beans
Vegtables that consists of broccoli, spinich , tomatoes, basically all low glycemic fiberous vegtables
1/4 avocado
spices

Post Workout
6 egg whites
Scoop whey protein
1/2C cooked beans

Meal 4
6 Oz Chicken
6 Egg whites
scoop whey protein

Meal 5
6 Oz Chicken
6 Egg whites
scoop whey protein

They also include various spices , but nothing that includes massive amounts of sodium. I don’t eat fruit or dairy products. I keep my calorie intake around 2300-3000. No sugar products, 35g dietary fiber daily, no high glycemic foods.

As for my excersise routine i weight train 5 times a week (two with my trainer) for an hour, each work out a different body part, mostly compound excersises , and i hitt train 3 times a week for 30min (usually on an empty stomach). Keep in mind i’m still new to weight lifting(only 1.5 years experience) i’m 5’10, again 23 years old.

Thank you for reading, I hope to learn a lot from all of you

702

Good work at massively improving your body composition. I wouldn’t dabble in the pro-steroids. They are hard on the body and you can make a lot of gains naturally if you dial in the para-workout nutrition. Maybe add some carbs like oats and a banana or berries to a pre-workout shake to propel you through the workout.

703

ok was wondering if someone can tell me about this supplement. I know it prob marketing bull but i got 2 free boxes of it so i figured why not ask someone here if they can give me their opionon on it. Im a bit too young to take anything like that now but if its good ill keep it for the future and if not ill toss it. heres the back info and the link is below it. thanks a bunch

Pharmadynamic Testosterone Technology

Anti-Aromatase Complex

Fastsorbâ?¢ Delivery

Patents Pending

LABORATORY TESTED
INCREASES TESTOSTERONE 10,000%*

ARIMATESTâ?¢ is a revolutionary breakthrough in natural testosterone boosting, made possible through the utilization of advanced anti-aromatase bioactives provided in the unique patent-pending FASTSORBâ?¢ delivery tablet. ARIMATESTâ?¢ has the unique ability to rapidly and dramatically increase free testosterone while eliminating estrogen through aromatase inhibition.*

LABORATORY TESTED - Scientists at MuscleMedsâ?¢ conducted laboratory tests to validate the free testosterone boosting effects of ARIMATESTâ?¢ in a doctor controlled medical trial. Laboratory test results revealed that male subjects showed free testosterone levels were increased up to 10,000% above baseline levels within 1 hour after taking ARIMATESTâ?¢.

ARIMATESTâ?¢ is an extremely powerful testosterone boosting agent - it’s as serious as it gets.*

  • These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
    Arimatest Fastsorbâ?¢ tablets are designed to be dissolved under your tongue. Place 1 tablet under your tongue and let dissolve completely, then swallow. For maximum effects take 2 Arimatestâ?¢ tablets per day, 1 in the morning and 1 tablet 15 minutes before training or in the evening on non-training days. For adult males only.

    Supplement Facts
    Serving Size 1 Tablet
    Servings Per Container 30
    Amount Per Serving % DV
    Arimatest 12.50 mg **
    Patented Pending AntiAromatase Complex of: androst 146 triene 317 dione 6 bromo androst 14 diene 3 17 dione - alpha isomer **
    and 6 bromo androst 14 diene 3 17 dione - beta isomer **
    ** Daily Value (DV) not established

Other Ingredients: Lactose, FD&C Red 40, Palmitic Acid, Mannitol, calcium carboxycellulose, methylcarboxy cellulose, Phosphatidyl Serine, EDTA natural and artificial citrus flavors, Phosphatidyl Choline

Warning: For use by healthy adult males only. NOT FOR USE BY INDIVIDUALS UNDER THE AGE OF 18 YEARS. DO NOT USE IF PREGNANT OR NURSING. Consult a physician or licensed qualified health care professional before using this product, including, but not limited to, if you have, or have a family history of, prostate cancer, prostate enlargement, heart disease, low “good” cholesterol (HDL), or if you are using any other dietary supplement, prescription drug, or over-the-counter drug. Do not exceed recommended serving. Exceeding recommended serving may cause serious adverse health effects. Possible side effects include acne, hair loss, hair growth on the face (in women), aggressiveness, and irritability. Discontinue use and call a physician or licensed qualified health care professional immediately if you experience rapid heartbeat, dizziness, blurred vision, or other similar symptoms. To report any adverse event call 1-800-332-1088. KEEP OUT THE REACH OF CHILDREN

www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2967345

704

It is no breakthrough. They NEVER are but i read up on this one - after reading your post (didn’t you?)

It is a stack of two different products that are sold separately already - or products that are very similar in structure at least (i ain’t giving more than 10mins to you, sorry).
The existing products are not only sold separately but are oral but AFAIK not methylated - read: useless in doses sold.

The alpha is apparently more of an androgenic anabolic, and the beta is the anti-aromatase component. i am sure there will be some kind of synergy. You’d think.

It seems that the main reason it is ‘better’ than the other products that contain the same or similar compounds is due to it also being sublingual… so it is significantly more bio-available and more* of it avoids the first pass.
Some random bloke on AnabolicMinds (where you SHOULD go for info on PH’s) said it was the difference between 2-3% bio-availability to 96-97%. Likely right IMO.

However statistics and numbers such as “10,000% increases in Free Test” are highly manipulatable.
Who were the study group? Age? Sex? Health and medical history? Trained? Sedentary? It should also be of note that a ‘10,000%’ increase is actually 100x.

In one article i read… the beginning Test level was 3pg. That is what a menopausal woman may have. Multiply that by 10,000% or 100x and you have 300pg. Men are in ng!!!

:wink:

705

Does anyone have any thoughts of “Winztrol”

Reason I asked is because a place i but some supps from is having a buy 2 havocs and get a bottle of the winztrol free. I ususally get one havoc for a cycle but this is a good buy for two bottles.

Thanks

706

What’s everyone’s take on cycle support type supplements. If you run a short cycle and have solid PCT how necessary are they. Other boards seem to think there absolutely needed, pre-loaded, during cycle, and post cycle. I’m all for erring on the side of caution, but also wonder if i’m not just getting milked for money.

707

The more I’ve been reading this thread the less I could understand, I’m confused about what’s legal and what’s good.

Someone help me out please.
I need to find the best/most recent precursor/PH that is sill legal and can be purchased at a places like GNC/Vitamin Shoppe.
I’m interested in dry muscle mass gain only. No need to lose fat. I’m extreme hard gainer, naturally lean and skinny, I have trouble getting any mass. Androgenic effects are desireable.
Not willing to use AAS, the reason is I’m waiting for citizenship and wouldn’t do anything to compromise it.

I saw S-drol product (as a superdrol replacement), not sure if it’s legal or if it’s good.
I tried Deca Vol–not much effect. Nodevex XT–I use it regularly. I also tried Testabolan with not much effect, as well as T3 complex (testosterone booster–anti-estrogen). Can’t say I see any difference from using those. I want something more effective.
Any advice from someone who knows more than will be appreciated.

708

[quote]x010xx1 wrote:

“…I’m confused about what’s legal and what’s good…”
[/quote]

That is likely because they are different things ;D

(what is legal is not good and vice-versa)

709

Well yeah, but they make things and they get banned, so they make new ones…

Since they get banned, there must be some good in them (like Oxo-6 got banned I think).
And designer steroids, they must be legal, right?
I want to try Bold 200, Oxo-11, Methadrol (by iforce) now, I understand all of those are legal.
Just wonder if anyone had good experience with that stuff.
I see Black China makes some products and I wonder about quality.

710

I’m not looking for anything super-strog, I understand that anything that’s legal won’t be that.
I actually will have a full opportunity to use testosterone about a year from now, where it’s legal. :slight_smile:
But until then I need something that’s legal in the US to help me out.

711

morning
Just by way of brief background am 30yrs old - been training 15 years, ex international athlete and generally have had my nutrition pretty much bang on.
Stats are 190cm and 90kgs and sit at approx 11% BF

I am currently in week 4 of a 4 week havoc cycle 20/30/30/40 and have been running cycle support, krill oil, multivits, milk thistle and Holy Basil (as I understand a decent adaptogen for cortisol control).

I have reversitol for PCT and will continue the support supps throughout. I have seen excellent power gains (which was my goal) and aside from being a bit grumpier than usual over the past few days and slight atrophy in one nut (could be my imagination)I would say have had zero sides

Planned PCT is reversitol 30/20/20/10 and as many people have suggested I have 50ml of Tamoxifen ‘on hand’

My question to those with more knowledge than me is - what exactly is meant by ‘on hand’?

How will I know if/when to use it? If I dont have any issues with the reversitol Im presuming the bottle stays unpoened ni the cupboard…?

712

On hand is bollocks - but it means ‘on hand’, as in there if you need it or ‘by your hand’.

You live under a rock?!

Recovery after using compounds that suppress endogenous T is sometimes very hard, and relying on OTC (over the counter - thought i better explain that to you… ;P) products only to assist you is probably a mistake (depending on a number of personal factors) - they are mild AT BEST.
And while the results from a product like ‘Havoc’ are mild when compared to AAS, the suppression is the same as many AAS… Bonus.

Tamoxifen is a prescription only drug, and is sold in tablets of 10-20mg. dose of 20-40mg for 2-4 weeks after a cycle is usually sufficient.
You can buy it as a ‘research chemical’ without a prescription - for research purposes only of course, but that may be research on yourself! This is cheap and does then come in a liquid so a volume would be an accurate way of measuring it - ie. 50ml.
It is usually 20mg/ml in those cases.

It wouldn’t be ‘on hand’ in your case, but vital.

I will let you google the rest :wink:

713

Hi Brook - thanks for the reply, sorry, didnt explain myself too well - I already have the 50ml of tamoxifen from a research company (having read one of your posts when planning this cycle as it happens).

I suppose my question is do I only use this if I start to have problems with the reversitol? And how do I know if Im having ‘problems’ anyway? As from whaty I understand things like gyno cant really be reversed with chemicals, and its a case of prevention rather than cure…

Would you suggest using the tamoxifen in with the reversitol anyway? Just to be on the safe side?

Thanks again

714

[quote]Octopussy8 wrote:
Hi Brook - thanks for the reply, sorry, didnt explain myself too well - I already have the 50ml of tamoxifen from a research company (having read one of your posts when planning this cycle as it happens).

I suppose my question is do I only use this if I start to have problems with the reversitol? And how do I know if Im having ‘problems’ anyway? As from whaty I understand things like gyno cant really be reversed with chemicals, and its a case of prevention rather than cure…

Would you suggest using the tamoxifen in with the reversitol anyway? Just to be on the safe side?

Thanks again

[/quote]

[quote] Brook wrote:

It wouldn’t be ‘on hand’ in your case, but vital.

[/quote]

IOW, use the tamoxifen as the basis for your PCT. Don’t rely on an OTC product.

715

Thanks - am all in favour of the safetly first approach.

Would you guys advise not using the reversitol at all in that case and just running a 20/20/10/10 tamoxifen PCT?

Thanks

716

[quote]Octopussy8 wrote:
Thanks - am all in favour of the safetly first approach.

Would you guys advise not using the reversitol at all in that case and just running a 20/20/10/10 tamoxifen PCT?

Thanks[/quote]

Yes, I’d recommend scrapping the reversitol completely.

The “SERM portion” of the product is probably harmless, but the “AI portion” is questionable. Lots of stories regarding problems with ATD; I have no reason to think that it’s an inherently bad product, but at recommended doses of OTC products containing it, many people have had libido issues.

717

Hello All. I spent a few hours last night reading this entire thread. Thanks for all the great and usually on topic info. I’m asking for some help. I have never used anything other than creatine and protein. I can’t take the legal risks with illegal steriods, so I’m looking at PH. Here is what’s on the way in the mail:
I Force Methadrol
Recomp Performance Nutrition Havoc
Competitive Edge Labs H-Drol
Competitive Edge Labs Cycle Assist
Tamoxifen Citrate

My info:
Age: 33
Height: 6 1
Weight: 195 lbs
Don’t know my body fat

I was a hard gainer in high school and college at 160 lbs. Then at age 22 I went up to 190 with the help of gainer drinks and 2 hours a day lifting.
I started rigorous weights (some cardio) 3 months ago (being on and off for 10 years) and went 200 lbs to 187 lbs then up to 195 lbs.

Using what I have on the way, I’m thinking I’ll do a 3 week cycle with ONE of the PH’s followed by 4 weeks of tamox. I’ll take cycle assist the whole time.

How do you think I should structure the cycle and in what doses?

Again, I’m new to this and most of what I know came from this thread.

Any ideas / comments / concerns would be greatly appreciated! Thanks! TP

718

I’m three days away from finishing an epi cycle. 30/30/30/40. I have absolutely no complaints. I picked up around 10lbs, stayed very lean, increased vascularity, had incredible pumps, energy and decent strength gains. I’m interested in seeing how the pct will go, I’m dosing nolva 40/20/20/10? Haven’t quite decided yet, but will post back with my final results.

719

I am thinking about running a cycle of a PH but I wanted to get some input from some people first. First, I have no way of getting AAS. I am 22, 6 foot, 195 and have been lifting for 6 years. I am wanting to take 19-Nor along with Flameout, animal flex and milk thistle. For PCT I am planning on running Clomid for a month or so after. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

720

[quote]erik56 wrote:
I am thinking about running a cycle of a PH but I wanted to get some input from some people first. First, I have no way of getting AAS. I am 22, 6 foot, 195 and have been lifting for 6 years. I am wanting to take 19-Nor along with Flameout, animal flex and milk thistle. For PCT I am planning on running Clomid for a month or so after. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks in advance[/quote]

Run epistane/havoc, hdrol, or even pheraplex or superdrol over 19-Nor, that stuff is crap in a bottle.

It is recommended you be atleast 21.

You will need 4 weeks worth of nolva, clomid will also work but I dont recommend it, the dosages required are higher and leads to more sideeffects versus nolva.

Nolva has even been shown to be slightly more effective for most users.