ProHormones-All You Need to Know

Pharma
661

[quote]thruxton45 wrote:
ironman7 wrote:
I have been considering trying a cycle of HAVOC. My question is, how necesary is a Post Cycle Therapy to someone who’s on HRT…and is it even worth taking HAVOC being that I have hypogonadism (low testosterone.) I’m on Androgel…and fortuneately it works well for me (Test levels went from low 200’s to 800’s). Thanks for any info!

your case sounds complicated, so i hesitate to give bad advice… but, the lab work i have seen on havoc demonstrates that your hypogonadism with be zerogonadism so you would want to help it recover with tamoxifen[/quote]

At max dose of androgel I find it hard to believe hes not being suppressed by that alone.

What is the max dose of andro-gel in mg of test per week ?

Yes the havoc will cause further suppression, not complete but enough that I a PCT would be recommended.

Do you have an AI to go with your androgel ? If not I would recommend that over PH’s, low dose letro/adex can raise your testosterone and lower your estrogen enough to make a huge difference. ESPECIALLY when your taking a higher dose of andro-gel, as test does aromatize.

If your doc refuses to supply you with one, I recommend self medication with letro to control E2.

662

[quote]iannotti wrote:
Makavali wrote:
iannotti wrote:
I wouldnt bother fucking with PH though, done havoc in the past…It was great actually, used it to kick off my first real AAS cycle. I do have quite a few unopened bottles of other stuff I was going to use until it all really sunk in…If a problem arises how am I going to know how to fix it because nobody actually really knows what the fuck it does once its in your body…I wouldn’t trust PH or designer steroids anymore…

For the most part, neither would I. Unfortunately, a lot of people don’t have access to AAS, and we may as well help hem do PH safely. After all, it’s why we’re here.

I on the other hand, will be starting a Test + Anavar or Test + Winstrol cycle at the end of next year provided I hit 200lbs by then.

Ftw!

The only few I would take again (permitting couldn’t get AAS)

Haladrol 50 or clones 75mg tops per day, have seen people run it at 100mg per day. Even though it being a methyl I was taking Liv52 and my liver enzymes were all within normal range.

Havoc methylated 30-40mg tops per day

Bold 200 (EQ PH) Non Methyl- Needs about 800mg per day to see great results

Furazadrol AKA Orastan A (200mg = 50mg of winnie) Non methyl

P.S good luck with your cycle, Im about to order my gear this week for my second cycle…
[/quote]

i did a havoc/furaz (class I and II, dry) 4 wk cycle. had to up calories a lot to feel normal. yogurt and ginger to mellow out the queasy gut. but it really packs on some weight. we’ll see how recovery goes.

i am following the advice of nolva PCT along with cortisol blunters. trying to get a bearing on what others are doing for dosing is difficult since very few people are bothering with a SERM, so i am on course for 40/40/20/20. i had to get this stuff from over-seas, however, and it was expensive – the argument that a SERM like nolva has proven beneficial for restarting your HPTA while blocking b!tch t!ts is compelling – but it sure would be nice if a simple and inexpensive OTC like the apparently popular resveratrol/quercetin concoction worked similarly.

663


This was brought up by a poster on another thread. i have little interest in such products, but i know they are of interest to some here.

I do have interest in chemical names and their meanings etc, so here is a reference guide to that info as it relates to PH/DS. Hopefully it is of interest or use.

Brook

==========================================================================================================

Nomenclature/Chemical naming info:

For reference:

etioallocholan = 5a-androst = ‘a skeleton’ or ‘a isomer’

etiocholan = 5b-androst = ‘b skeleton’ or ‘b isomer’

17beta-hydroxy = 17b-ol

estra = 19-norandrost

1-AD (1-androstenedione) 1-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-dione

1-AD (1-androstenediol) 1-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-1-ene-3b,17b-diol

4-AD (4-androstenedione) 4-androstene-3b,17b-dione or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-dione

4-AD (4-androstenediol) 4-androstene-3b,17b-diol or androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

1,4AD (Boldione) 1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-dione or androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-dione

M1,4AD (Dianadiol) 17a-methyl-1,4-androstadiene-3b,17b-diol or 17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

19-Tren X (Pro-Dienolone) 19-norandrosta-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione or estra-4,9-diene-3b,17b-dione

Max LMG 13-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-2,5(10)-diene-17-one

Orastan-A (Furazabol THP) 5a-androstano[2,3-c]furazan-17b-tetrahydropyranol ether

Orastan-E (Stanozol THP) [3,2-c]pyrazole-5alpha-etioallocholane-17b-tetrahydropyranol

Halodrol-50 (Turinadiol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1,4-diene-3b,17b-diol

Promagnon-25 (Methyl-Clostediol) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

Propadrol 12-ethyl-3-methoxy-gona-diene-17 6-17 dihydroxyetiocholove-3-ol proponate

11-OXO (Adrenosterone) 4-androstene-3,11,17-trione or 11-oxo-androstenedione

Methoxy-TRN 17b-methoxy-trienbolone

Methoxy-TST 17b-methoxy-trienosterone

19-Nor (19-norandrostenediol) 19-nor-4-androsten-3b,17b-diol or 19-norandrost-4-ene-3b,17b-diol

5AA (5-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3b,17b-diol

M5AA (Mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstanediol

3-Alpha (3-alpha-androstanediol) 5a-androstane-3alpha,17b-diol

M1T (Methyl 1-Test aka 17aa-1-testosterone) 17a-methyl-1-androstene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-1-ene-3-one-17b-ol

Superdrol (Methyldrostanolone) 2a,17a-dimethyl-5a-androst-3-one-17b-ol or 2a,17a-dimethyl-etiocholan-3-one-17b-ol

Pheraplex (Madol or DMT) 17a-methyl-etioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-5a-androst-2-ene-17b-ol

Ergomax LMG (Ergo Matrix) 17a-methyl-delta-2-etioallocholane

Epithio (Havoc or Epistane) 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol or 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-etioallocholan-17b-ol

Methyl-D (Methyl Dienolone) 17a-methyl-19-Norandrosta-4,9(10)-diene-3-one-17b-ol or 17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-estra-4,9(10)-diene-3-one

M4OHN (Methylhydroxynandrolone) 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-19-norandrost-4-ene-3-one or 17a-methyl-4-hydroxy-estra-4-ene-3-one

4OHT (hydroxytestosterone) 4-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one-17b-ol or 4,17-dihydroxy-androst-4-ene-3-one

MDHT (methyl-DHT/mestanolone) 17a-methyl-5a-androstane-3-one

664

665

666

667


Half Lives

668

Hey Brook some of the graphs are unreadable. Here is the website if anybody wants to research it. (it might just be my computer)

www.ironmagazineforums.com/history/topic/92194-1.html

669

[quote]jcash3485 wrote:
Hey Brook some of the graphs are unreadable. Here is the website if anybody wants to research it. (it might just be my computer)

www.ironmagazineforums.com/history/topic/92194-1.html[/quote]

You can click on the “white area” and they will pop up larger, :slight_smile:

670

Yeah I Know but when it pops up on my computer the words are blurry and unreadable. Might be my piece of shit computer.

671

I’m in my final days of my PCT after doing a 3wk Havoc cycle and I’m really happy with things. It was my first cycle as well.

I ate a bunch; but could have eaten more.
My strength went up a large amount. (OHP 145x5 before, 165x5 during, 180x3 PCT for example)
My waist shrunk about 1".
My mid section got a bit more “defined”.
My chest measurement went up 3.75" (training was major focus on bench & back)
My libido didn’t even drop (yet).

I can’t wait for my next cycle. I have another bottle of havoc so I might just run that again but stuff my face more.

672

[quote]jcash3485 wrote:

Yeah I Know but when it pops up on my computer the words are blurry and unreadable. Might be my piece of shit computer.[/quote]

Yes, It Is.

673

I’m assuming that most of you out there don’t want to give out a reputable source for obtaining a serm over the forum. Certainly want to do my cycle the right way. Is anyone willing to pm me with a reputable source. There seems to be so many google hits that it hard to know which one is good. Anything would be greatly appreciated.

674

[quote]easydoesitcasey wrote:
I’m assuming that most of you out there don’t want to give out a reputable source for obtaining a serm over the forum. Certainly want to do my cycle the right way. Is anyone willing to pm me with a reputable source. There seems to be so many google hits that it hard to know which one is good. Anything would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]

That’s the right (a good way) to ask ! :slight_smile:

675

It seems that the majority of posts on this forum frown upon using ph’s due to the lack of research, but are there any quality ph’s out there now that have at least a better track record.

I don’t really want to inject anything so AAS are out. Are there any real oral AAS available. I’ve been doing my research from this forum and one other (not BB.com) so I have a bit of forum knowledge on the subject but would very much appreciate some tried and true experiences with actual use/product.

Just finishing a 6 week cycle of RV2 and RV cut and I can’t say that I’m all that impressed. Certainly going to do my pct and then give some time to let my body return to normal but after that would like to do a cycle that has some real impact and not waste a ton of time and money.

676

[quote]easydoesitcasey wrote:
It seems that the majority of posts on this forum frown upon using ph’s due to the lack of research, but are there any quality ph’s out there now that have at least a better track record.

I don’t really want to inject anything so AAS are out. Are there any real oral AAS available. I’ve been doing my research from this forum and one other (not BB.com) so I have a bit of forum knowledge on the subject but would very much appreciate some tried and true experiences with actual use/product.

Just finishing a 6 week cycle of RV2 and RV cut and I can’t say that I’m all that impressed. Certainly going to do my pct and then give some time to let my body return to normal but after that would like to do a cycle that has some real impact and not waste a ton of time and money.

[/quote]

Man up and inject. It is safer to use proper steroids and not these half assed PH’s.

677

[quote]easydoesitcasey wrote:
It seems that the majority of posts on this forum frown upon using ph’s due to the lack of research, but are there any quality ph’s out there now that have at least a better track record.

I don’t really want to inject anything so AAS are out. Are there any real oral AAS available. I’ve been doing my research from this forum and one other (not BB.com) so I have a bit of forum knowledge on the subject but would very much appreciate some tried and true experiences with actual use/product.

Just finishing a 6 week cycle of RV2 and RV cut and I can’t say that I’m all that impressed. Certainly going to do my pct and then give some time to let my body return to normal but after that would like to do a cycle that has some real impact and not waste a ton of time and money.

[/quote]

Man up and inject. It is safer to use proper steroids and not these half assed PH’s.

678

The other main reason for not injecting is that I don’t have a reliable source.

679

[quote]Westclock wrote:
thruxton45 wrote:
ironman7 wrote:
I have been considering trying a cycle of HAVOC. My question is, how necesary is a Post Cycle Therapy to someone who’s on HRT…and is it even worth taking HAVOC being that I have hypogonadism (low testosterone.) I’m on Androgel…and fortuneately it works well for me (Test levels went from low 200’s to 800’s). Thanks for any info!

your case sounds complicated, so i hesitate to give bad advice… but, the lab work i have seen on havoc demonstrates that your hypogonadism with be zerogonadism so you would want to help it recover with tamoxifen

At max dose of androgel I find it hard to believe hes not being suppressed by that alone.

What is the max dose of andro-gel in mg of test per week ?

Yes the havoc will cause further suppression, not complete but enough that I a PCT would be recommended.

Do you have an AI to go with your androgel ? If not I would recommend that over PH’s, low dose letro/adex can raise your testosterone and lower your estrogen enough to make a huge difference. ESPECIALLY when your taking a higher dose of andro-gel, as test does aromatize.

If your doc refuses to supply you with one, I recommend self medication with letro to control E2.

[/quote]

I’m not so much worried about test supression than I am about Estrogen. Becuase I have hypogonadism, I will have to be on Test. for life. The max dose of Androgel results in approx. 10 mg a day…70 a week. Since a 100 test shot is only about 70% absorbed…10mg of andro a day is equivalent to 100mg test cyan. However, different areas of the body will absorb more test from the andro. Underarms absorb about 2X more…while applying to testicles absorb 5X…but not recomended since 5-alpha in that area converts most to dht. Anyway…I do take a couple of vitamins that are supposed to help combat estrogen levels. I take both Calcium-D-Glucarate and Dim (Diindolylmethane). Now…if I were to try Havoc…would those 2 supplements be enough? If Havoc mainly works because of it’s anti-estrogen levels…couldn’t I just wean off it slowly? Thanks for any ifo!!!

680

[quote]easydoesitcasey wrote:
The other main reason for not injecting is that I don’t have a reliable source. [/quote]

I don’t believe you. You would have stated that off the bat if it were a real reason and you asked about oral compounds. If you aren’t willing to man up over a couple needles, you probably should lift those heavy weights either, God forbid you hurt yourself.