ProHormones-All You Need to Know

Pharma
641

[quote]thruxton45 wrote:

that part confuses me since all steroids yield exogenous test (if they did not, what is the point?) and thus the negative feedback loop will shut you down and you need a pct. [/quote]

You’re sort of wayyy off. Nothing ‘yields’ exo-test. You can introduce exo-test by injecting testosterone (or applyign a transdermal etc.). That is the only way. Steroids other than testosterone increase the rate of protein synthesis and improve nitrogen retention. That is the main way AAS enhance muscle building. There is nothing particularly special about AAS, they just allow more muscle to be built at a faster rate than naturally possible. The shutdown occurs for multiple reasons, involving multiple hormones and organs. You can do a search on the Hypothalmus Pituitary Tesiticular Axis if you want more in depth information on the topic.

[quote]3. nolva is an anti-estrogen so doesn’t seem like a proper pct for this compound, but rather a natty test booster would help. is that what you did?

thanks[/quote]

Nolvadex is not an ‘anti-estrogen’. That is a very general term used to simplify it’s actual actions. Nolvadex is SERM. It does a lot more than just prevent breast tissue growth in the presence of high levels of estrogen. A natural test booster is not suitable for sole means of PCT after ANY steroid cycle. A SERM is mandatory. Natural test boosters claim to increase testosterone levels of normally functioning men. They do nothing to resensitize the leydig cells and all the other stuff that needs to happen for natural production to begin after being shutdown for a period of time.

I can not comment on furazadrol, as I know next to nothing about it.

642

[quote]thruxton45 wrote:
so i was reading about ben johnson’s stanozolol, and “Furazadrol (200mg = 50mg of winnie)”, says iannotti, way back in the beginning of this thread so you can get it OTC

regarding this compound, big cat says:

“There is no need for an anti-estrogen as Winny may have such a property of its own and does not aromatize at any rate. The only counter-indication with Winny would perhaps be an anti-hypertensive if you use for a longer stack. Be sure to get liver values checked if you use for longer than 6 weeks on end”

other threads have pointed out that it is hard on your joints so you have to short cycle.

additionally, the BB crowd says it shuts down your natural testosterone so you have to take test along with it.

that part confuses me since all steroids yield exogenous test (if they did not, what is the point?) and thus the negative feedback loop will shut you down and you need a pct.

i’ll keep searching but it would be helpful if a couple people with single digit BF could tell me what their experience (or research) was with furazadrol.

some Q’s

  1. take it as a single product or with another?
  2. hair loss or sore joints are the complaints. did you have this?
  3. nolva is an anti-estrogen so doesn’t seem like a proper pct for this compound, but rather a natty test booster would help. is that what you did?

thanks[/quote]

Its only hard on the joints because of its anti estrogenic effects, and the fact that it suppresses your testosterone, and since all your estrogen is made from your test, you have less estrogen as well.

It is less suppressive than many steroids, but still suppressive non-the-less.

This leads to poor joint lubrication compared to normal. This will happen with any non-aromatizing steroid if estrogen is not introduced from elsewhere, the anti e properties of winny exaggerate this effect.

You dont have to take test along with it, your natural production will hold out fine on shorter cycles at moderate doses. You can do winny only cycles, it just not comfrotable or as effective as when run with test.

Most steroids do not yield exogenous test, but they do yield exogenous ANDROGENS, there is a difference, exogenous androgens are exactly what they sound like, you are correct about feedback but you missed a key word.

for example, you can run pretty well without test as long as you account for DHT and estrogen along with your androgen.

You would do better to stack winny with a stronger androgen of a different type. Winny is a type II steroid and would be most effective with a type I. Or simply test, which is both I and II.

Your slightly incorrect, but important to note, your product is Miotolan based, and while very very similar to winny, is not infact winstrol.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/catmiotolan.htm

The two are so similar chemically, and the effects are nearly identical, its basically a more obscure form of winny.

Now for the questions:

  1. Stacking with test is ideal. Stacking with a type I is better than nothing, as it is a type II and I.

Epistane, pheraplex, bold prohormones are all decent legal choices for type I steroids.

  1. Hair loss is normal, but is not permanent unless you are genetically predisposed to baldness, it is a DHT derivative and it is to be expected.

Joint pain was already explained. Answer is yes.

  1. SERM PCT is REQUIRED, Bonez explained PCT basics to you. Nolva is not an AI, which is what you are thinking of.
643

[quote]
That said. You can get needles anywhere, there is no law against their sale in the US.

You can go down to CVS and buy whatever you like. [/quote]

Where are you livin? I wish this was true in Mass. I dont know if its a state law or just a CVS policy here but we can only get needles along with a prescription or from a vet

644

[quote]pacman20 wrote:

That said. You can get needles anywhere, there is no law against their sale in the US.

You can go down to CVS and buy whatever you like.

Where are you livin? I wish this was true in Mass. I dont know if its a state law or just a CVS policy here but we can only get needles along with a prescription or from a vet
[/quote]

They are legally required to sell you needles. Hell if your like a 16 year old girl they still have to sell you needles.

Hell most states in the union (think like 45+) offer free syringe programs, they just give you free syringes.

Now in some states, even though they are legally required to sell you needles, they can just give you one or something. Or mabey sell you just 10 at a time.

If the person working the counter wants to be a bitch about it they can be. Make up some story about how you inject yourself with B12 for nerve pain in your elbow/arm, but don’t have a doctors prescription because the prescription costs too much.

You might “ease” their suspicions so they will sell you more at one time.

645

[quote]Westclock wrote:
pacman20 wrote:

That said. You can get needles anywhere, there is no law against their sale in the US.

You can go down to CVS and buy whatever you like.

Where are you livin? I wish this was true in Mass. I dont know if its a state law or just a CVS policy here but we can only get needles along with a prescription or from a vet

They are legally required to sell you needles. Hell if your like a 16 year old girl they still have to sell you needles.

Hell most states in the union (think like 45+) offer free syringe programs, they just give you free syringes.

Now in some states, even though they are legally required to sell you needles, they can just give you one or something. Or mabey sell you just 10 at a time.

If the person working the counter wants to be a bitch about it they can be. Make up some story about how you inject yourself with B12 for nerve pain in your elbow/arm, but don’t have a doctors prescription because the prescription costs too much.

You might “ease” their suspicions so they will sell you more at one time.
[/quote]

It can be very tough in some states. California, for example, isn’t the toughest, but even still, things only opened up somewhat in 2004. And by that, I mean there are 3 exceptions to the prescription requirement: (1)Person known to pharmacist and previously showed prescription or medical need; (2) registered location (and that requires county approval) taking part in limited needle giveaway plan (10 or less syringes); (3) pharm / vet etc… can dispense if intended use is for animals.

States can put in whatever regulations they want… if they want to pretend they’re saving the community from drugs by banning needle sales w/o prescription (and ignore AIDS / hepatitis issues), that’s their prerogative.

Usually though, as Westclock says, as long as you don’t seem sketchy (be friendly, have a good story / reason) a pharmacist will help you with at least a limited request. Look into tractor supply (farm) stores in your area as well.

646

Apologies if I should have started my own thread, but I thought that the answers to these questions might be beneficial to those looking thru a prohormone sticky.

First:
There is a lab that sells a product named EQ-Plex, and is stated to be a precursor to Boldenone. The compound listed per capsule is 1, 4 Androstadiene-3, 17-Dione û 200 mg. The product description states that eq-plex is not methylated. So, for the sake of my liver, would this be an intelligent choice as the second product in a stack?

Second:
With what would I stack with EQ-Plex? I am currently running an H-drol-only cycle. It seems that h-drol and eq-plex would make sense, as it is a class I and a class II stacked together. And, from what I’ve read, both products are relatively mild in terms of side-effects.

But, does stacking two mild products end up being something that isn’t so mild anymore? And if its true that the “mildness” factor gets thrown out the window whenever two products are stacked, should I just go ahead and stack the eq-plex with something like M-drol (a superdrol clone) or M1 4ADD?

Thanks in advance. I do have a few more questions but I will wait for the answers to these before I ask them.

And thanks to all who have helped me so far.

647

[quote]downintucson wrote:
Apologies if I should have started my own thread, but I thought that the answers to these questions might be beneficial to those looking thru a prohormone sticky.

First:
There is a lab that sells a product named EQ-Plex, and is stated to be a precursor to Boldenone. The compound listed per capsule is 1, 4 Androstadiene-3, 17-Dione �?�» 200 mg. The product description states that eq-plex is not methylated. So, for the sake of my liver, would this be an intelligent choice as the second product in a stack?

Second:
With what would I stack with EQ-Plex? I am currently running an H-drol-only cycle. It seems that h-drol and eq-plex would make sense, as it is a class I and a class II stacked together. And, from what I’ve read, both products are relatively mild in terms of side-effects.

But, does stacking two mild products end up being something that isn’t so mild anymore? And if its true that the “mildness” factor gets thrown out the window whenever two products are stacked, should I just go ahead and stack the eq-plex with something like M-drol (a superdrol clone) or M1 4ADD?

Thanks in advance. I do have a few more questions but I will wait for the answers to these before I ask them.

And thanks to all who have helped me so far.
[/quote]

Didn’t know that they made a Bold PH. New to market, perhaps. They seems to be one of the more reputable companies, so if their price is equivalent or better than iForce’s Bold200, it’d be a decent bet (same precursor in both).

Bold PHs are certainly mild, both in terms of positive and negative effects. Not being liver toxic is nice, particularly for stacking purposes, but its bioavailabity presumably is quite low as a result. I know of someone on this site that designed and is well into an hdrol-Bold200 cycle atm. Can’t remember the numbers he’s using (200mg / day isn’t going to be nearly enough imo), but the Bold needs to run for a long time to kick in and hopefully generate some synergy and increased appetite, making it expensive.

Can’t really tell you anything about stacking it with the other compounds.

648

Thanks for the reply.

The “mild” cycle for eq-plex starts at 400 mg/day and pyramids up to 600 mg/day. From the website I got my product, a six-week cycle would cost approx. $70. The “advanced” cycle uses almost twice as much product. So, your guess that more than 200 mg/day is needed would seem to be correct.

649

Most people choose to run the bold PH’s at atleast 800mg/day.

650

I am interested in finding a legitimate research chemical site for SERM. I understand it’s not acceptable to discuss this on the forum, so would any of the vets mind if I PMed them for a recommendation? Thanks.

651

hey guys, thanks for reading.
please feel free to critique and give any recommendations. ill also ask for specific advice at the end.

im counting down to vacation on june 5th and am using the remainder of a bottle of halodrol 50. my goals are to gain even more muscle and decrease fat.

im 32, 275-280, i dont know how to even estimate bodyfat but ill bet its pretty high. i never ever do cardio even though id like to. after just a mild hike in the foothills of my wonderful homestate, my knees are both so bad that they swell and im in pain for a week or two aftewards. i should add that ive sprained both knees more than twice each, and theres a lovely light griding sound when i bend them. i know my weight doesnt help my knees.
ive been working out for a combined 7 years. PR’s are 455 deadlift and 235 bench. every single day no matter what i take 1 GNC mega man
“sport” multivitamin twice a day and 2, 0.3% concentration st. johns wort for depression twice a day, both with food.

starting may 18th, for three days i took 2 thermolean pills and walked my dog 60 minutes with a 25 pound pack. ive never walked this long in the morning or with any weight on me. in the afternoon on those days i took 1 halodrol 50 along with 2 fish oil pills 1 hour before a 60 minute weight training session.
next i stepped it up to 1 halodrol 50, 1 fish oil pill, and 1 thermolean pill upon waking then 60 minutes walking my dog with the same 25 pound backpack, went to work the day job, then 1 halodrol 50 and two fish oil pills an hour before 60 minutes of afternoon weight training.
in general i like to schedule my gym days: “2 on, 1 off, then 2 on, 2 off”
for me this equates to 1 morning walk and the afternoon weight session for two days, then one day “off”, then the next two days a morning walk and an afternoon weight session and so on. on my off days i still take 1 halodrol and 1 thermolean then walk 60 minutes without the weighted pack in the morning before breakfast.

what post cycle therapy supp(s) should i take that i can get on T-Nation, at GNC, or on the saveonsupplements website? my work blocks “supplements and unregulated compounds” and these three sites are the only ones i can get around the block on. i looked for Tamoxifen but couldnt find it. does Rez-V work? when should i start taking PCT? im under the impression to start it one week before i end the PH.

on liver care, does the mega man multivitamin have enough liver support nutrients or should i be using something in addition? liv52?

on my upcoming vacation: when i see my childhood friends and family, we tend to drink a whole lot of booze, something i know never ever to do on PH. anything i should watch out for after ending the PH cycle and going right back to putting some beers away with friends? i was thinking that i should continue the liver care supp till after my trip?

sorry if some of these questions seem remedial.
“Give me a fish and I eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime.” - Chinese Proverb

Rad

652

[quote]…
“Give me a fish and I eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime.” - Chinese Proverb

Rad

[/quote]

with this bait, you are not going to catch the fish you seek.

653

[quote]radovan wrote:
bla bla bla

[/quote]

So have you have already started the halodrol?

Because you probably should have read the first page of this thread before doing so. Unless your wife can’t breastfeed, and you want to take over.

654

[quote]radovan wrote:
bla bla bla

[/quote]

radovan - what is the compound listed on the halodrol-50 you’ve been taking? There have been like 2-3 different versions.

655

[quote]radovan wrote:
hey guys, thanks for reading.
please feel free to critique and give any recommendations. ill also ask for specific advice at the end.

im counting down to vacation on june 5th and am using the remainder of a bottle of halodrol 50. my goals are to gain even more muscle and decrease fat.

im 32, 275-280, i dont know how to even estimate bodyfat but ill bet its pretty high. i never ever do cardio even though id like to. after just a mild hike in the foothills of my wonderful homestate, my knees are both so bad that they swell and im in pain for a week or two aftewards. i should add that ive sprained both knees more than twice each, and theres a lovely light griding sound when i bend them. i know my weight doesnt help my knees.
ive been working out for a combined 7 years. PR’s are 455 deadlift and 235 bench. every single day no matter what i take 1 GNC mega man
“sport” multivitamin twice a day and 2, 0.3% concentration st. johns wort for depression twice a day, both with food.

starting may 18th, for three days i took 2 thermolean pills and walked my dog 60 minutes with a 25 pound pack. ive never walked this long in the morning or with any weight on me. in the afternoon on those days i took 1 halodrol 50 along with 2 fish oil pills 1 hour before a 60 minute weight training session.
next i stepped it up to 1 halodrol 50, 1 fish oil pill, and 1 thermolean pill upon waking then 60 minutes walking my dog with the same 25 pound backpack, went to work the day job, then 1 halodrol 50 and two fish oil pills an hour before 60 minutes of afternoon weight training.
in general i like to schedule my gym days: “2 on, 1 off, then 2 on, 2 off”
for me this equates to 1 morning walk and the afternoon weight session for two days, then one day “off”, then the next two days a morning walk and an afternoon weight session and so on. on my off days i still take 1 halodrol and 1 thermolean then walk 60 minutes without the weighted pack in the morning before breakfast.

what post cycle therapy supp(s) should i take that i can get on T-Nation, at GNC, or on the saveonsupplements website? my work blocks “supplements and unregulated compounds” and these three sites are the only ones i can get around the block on. i looked for Tamoxifen but couldnt find it. does Rez-V work? when should i start taking PCT? im under the impression to start it one week before i end the PH.

on liver care, does the mega man multivitamin have enough liver support nutrients or should i be using something in addition? liv52?

on my upcoming vacation: when i see my childhood friends and family, we tend to drink a whole lot of booze, something i know never ever to do on PH. anything i should watch out for after ending the PH cycle and going right back to putting some beers away with friends? i was thinking that i should continue the liver care supp till after my trip?

sorry if some of these questions seem remedial.
“Give me a fish and I eat for a day. Teach me to fish and I eat for a lifetime.” - Chinese Proverb

Rad

[/quote]

I suspect what you are taking is not actually a Prohormone, as in its not actually an anabolic steroid.

I suspect your taking this—>

Which is actually just DHEA and some fatty acids.

Its not going to hurt anything, and is certainly not going to require any PCT.

Agian, we need the entire compound’s chemical name from the box to confirm this.

If you are infact taking a real hdrol or halodrol clone then you need to avoid alcohol and you need to order nolva/tamoxifen or another SERM asap.

We can provide you with research chem sites, none of these sites are the sites you listed.

Research chemicals are “legal” products that are sold as “not for human consumption”, so just give them to your “rats”… and all that it implies.

656

I have been considering trying a cycle of HAVOC. My question is, how necesary is a Post Cycle Therapy to someone who’s on HRT…and is it even worth taking HAVOC being that I have hypogonadism (low testosterone.) I’m on Androgel…and fortuneately it works well for me (Test levels went from low 200’s to 800’s). Thanks for any info!

657

Can you describe why you are opting for a PH over more Testosterone?

658

its legal. thats y i used to use them.

659

[quote] Brook wrote:
Can you describe why you are opting for a PH over more Testosterone?[/quote]

I’m at the highest dose for Androgel…and the PH is legal and easy to buy. Just not sure if it’s worth it.

660

[quote]ironman7 wrote:
I have been considering trying a cycle of HAVOC. My question is, how necesary is a Post Cycle Therapy to someone who’s on HRT…and is it even worth taking HAVOC being that I have hypogonadism (low testosterone.) I’m on Androgel…and fortuneately it works well for me (Test levels went from low 200’s to 800’s). Thanks for any info! [/quote]

your case sounds complicated, so i hesitate to give bad advice… but, the lab work i have seen on havoc demonstrates that your hypogonadism with be zerogonadism so you would want to help it recover with tamoxifen