[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
plus my moms saying her visa is maxed right now so i cant use that, my visa giftcards dont work and of course i have a mastercard.[/quote]
You realize you can get a credit card yourself right ?
Its never to early to start building credit, and as long as you only use it for online purchases like this one that require credit, your not likely to ruin your credit rating.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
I have taken M1T instead of Dbol before as a kick start.
Works just fine at a high dosage.
M1t used to be like 5 bucks a gram or less[/quote]
yea well theres no more M1t, or 1, AD. Well there is a new 1,AD but nothing like it used to be just the company remade some bull and slaped the name on it kind of like Gaspari did with Halodrol. But there are some very good PH out there, for my body H-drol and Xtreme Tren put 11 pounds on each, lost a little after the Xtreme Tren but kept all from H-drol.
The new tren compounds are pretty shitty.
They are all progestin based, and have limited anabolic activity compared to the problems they cause.
Hdrol is excellent stuff.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
The new tren compounds are pretty shitty.
They are all progestin based, and have limited anabolic activity compared to the problems they cause.
Hdrol is excellent stuff.[/quote]
Yes most Tren compounds are shitty, some out there like xtreme Tren have great results but terrible problems, From my experience it was really suppressive to my free test level even after PCT of clomid. Took another 10 weeks for test level to get back up. I have read many many of the same sides from the stuff. H-drol i had personally great gains and all keep ( except strenght did go down some) with no sides. And yes i took recomended doesage on each product.
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
what would you think of stacking actual AAS with PHs? like, say you could only get 1 kind of AAS and maybe it wasnt a very strong AAS …would it be overkill on your liver to stack or would it be feasible?
Your Havoc is an “actual AAS”, not a PH. Milder than test, but a real AAS nonetheless as no conversion is reqd to yield the active product.
But yes, one can stack commercial oral products with injectable AAS compounds. It’s the same concept as taking dbol and test.
Liver problems are most likely to occur when taking two 17-methyl orals at the same time.
[/quote]
whatever, havoc may be a legit AAS cause it doesnt convert but it isnt very strong. like i know 1 guy who i can trust to get shit off but he only has random things at time, then theres this Salvadorian guy who says he can get anything but i dont even know this dude. so just something for down the road i guess.
[quote]Westclock wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
plus my moms saying her visa is maxed right now so i cant use that, my visa giftcards dont work and of course i have a mastercard.
You realize you can get a credit card yourself right ?
Its never to early to start building credit, and as long as you only use it for online purchases like this one that require credit, your not likely to ruin your credit rating.
[/quote]
yeah, i already ordered off a different site. i just didnt want to go through the hassle of signing up, etc. so now im just waiting for it to arrive…probaly shoulda waited to start taking my Havoc after i got the PCT but i just didnt care.
[quote]Jamesb170 wrote:
yes dido to the above statement. Many of your PH are designer steriods. The PH is usually one or so molecules away from being the steriod, once the PH goes through your body it will go through some reasctions and convert to the steriod, it isnt 100% conversions but better than nothing.
With that being said taking an injectable AAS with a PH would be like taking injectable AAS with a oral AAS, not as affective though.But wanting to take an oral AAS with a Methyl PH it has the potential to do some serious damage to the liver.[/quote]
im sure it would take a lot of cycles for an extended amount of time to actually cause severe liver damage.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
Jamesb170 wrote:
yes dido to the above statement. Many of your PH are designer steriods. The PH is usually one or so molecules away from being the steriod, once the PH goes through your body it will go through some reasctions and convert to the steriod, it isnt 100% conversions but better than nothing.
With that being said taking an injectable AAS with a PH would be like taking injectable AAS with a oral AAS, not as affective though.But wanting to take an oral AAS with a Methyl PH it has the potential to do some serious damage to the liver.
im sure it would take a lot of cycles for an extended amount of time to actually cause severe liver damage. [/quote]
If the cycle is done correctly then more than likly your liver want have any issues. You know all the people out there that take the reccommended dosage and multiply it by 20. maybe that numbers is a little far fetched.
^ of course one has to have the maturity to stay away from alcohol & most other meds during the cycle and PCT. Not a prob for me but I’m no yout’.
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
^ of course one has to have the maturity to stay away from alcohol & most other meds during the cycle and PCT. Not a prob for me but I’m no yout’.[/quote]
i actually started my cycle on new years day that way i got all my holiday drinking done and went out with a bang.
i wasnt aware you cant drink on PCT though…whats the reasoning behind that?
its not a huge deal for me to stop drinking either, except for like the christmas-NYE week i didnt drink more than a couple beers and couple shots in an entire month.
[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
whotookmyname wrote:
^ of course one has to have the maturity to stay away from alcohol & most other meds during the cycle and PCT. Not a prob for me but I’m no yout’.
i actually started my cycle on new years day that way i got all my holiday drinking done and went out with a bang.
i wasnt aware you cant drink on PCT though…whats the reasoning behind that?
its not a huge deal for me to stop drinking either, except for like the christmas-NYE week i didnt drink more than a couple beers and couple shots in an entire month.[/quote]
havoc/epistane is pretty mild, you can get away with some shenanigans as long as you keep it reasonable.
Ive gotten drunk while on cycle with dbol before, long story, I had my “reason” and she was worth it. Was it a good idea ? Hell no, but I did it, and my liver values were ok.
That said, you dont drink during the PCT because you should be focusing on recovery, not just your test levels, but the rest of your body as well, the SERM is used to help your liver values out and drinking just impedes that.
Some drinking later in a 4 week PCT is probably fine. At the start though, you’re in full recovery mode and your liver enzymes are guaranteed to be at bad levels so they hardly need the extra stress of alcohol.
Additionally, tamox / nolva (IIRC that was what you were buying) is itself damn strong stuff (stronger than torem, which I personally favor now). There are even some links between long term treatment (female cancer patients) and liver damage. Fortunately PCT doesn’t last as long as cancer treatment, but as far as risk management goes, just consider it hepatoxic and act accordingly.
Finally, alcohol also isn’t going to help your T levels recover any faster either. You want to get back to 100%, not 75%… the better your recovery, the more sure you can be of locking in your gains. No point putting on 10-15 lb during your cycle (and you can on epi… it won’t really hit until later in cycle) and then losing 8-10 lb over the next two months.
cheers
[quote]Westclock wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
whotookmyname wrote:
^ of course one has to have the maturity to stay away from alcohol & most other meds during the cycle and PCT. Not a prob for me but I’m no yout’.
i actually started my cycle on new years day that way i got all my holiday drinking done and went out with a bang.
i wasnt aware you cant drink on PCT though…whats the reasoning behind that?
its not a huge deal for me to stop drinking either, except for like the christmas-NYE week i didnt drink more than a couple beers and couple shots in an entire month.
havoc/epistane is pretty mild, you can get away with some shenanigans as long as you keep it reasonable.
Ive gotten drunk while on cycle with dbol before, long story, I had my “reason” and she was worth it. Was it a good idea ? Hell no, but I did it, and my liver values were ok.
That said, you dont drink during the PCT because you should be focusing on recovery, not just your test levels, but the rest of your body as well, the SERM is used to help your liver values out and drinking just impedes that.
[/quote]
yeah, like this weekend some little ho is heading down, shes drinking i wont be. but if it were some smoking hot chick(s) id probaly do a couple shots and nurse a beer just so i dont look like a queer. and like you said, sometimes its just worth it so long as you dont think every social occasion is an excuse to trash yourself which i know better than to do.
[quote]whotookmyname wrote:
Some drinking later in a 4 week PCT is probably fine. At the start though, you’re in full recovery mode and your liver enzymes are guaranteed to be at bad levels so they hardly need the extra stress of alcohol.
Additionally, tamox / nolva (IIRC that was what you were buying) is itself damn strong stuff (stronger than torem, which I personally favor now). There are even some links between long term treatment (female cancer patients) and liver damage. Fortunately PCT doesn’t last as long as cancer treatment, but as far as risk management goes, just consider it hepatoxic and act accordingly.
Finally, alcohol also isn’t going to help your T levels recover any faster either. You want to get back to 100%, not 75%… the better your recovery, the more sure you can be of locking in your gains. No point putting on 10-15 lb during your cycle (and you can on epi… it won’t really hit until later in cycle) and then losing 8-10 lb over the next two months.
cheers[/quote]
i think the alcohol effects on testosterone are really overblown. theres plenty of people who drink and lift and do fine for themselves. i try to control how much i drink but im not going to avoid alcohol altogether just because it will affect my T by a trillionth of a gram.
i hope this doesnt get misinterperted as “im gonna go out and get plastered every night” cause thats NOT what im saying. like i said earlier, i barely even drink when im not on gear.
but in my experiences the guys who push what theyre supposedly allowed to get away with make out better than the guys who dont. living in 100% accordance with what youre “supposed” to do is fucking pointless.
I mentioned three reasons why alcohol isn’t a good reason during PCT. You chose to respond to one - its effect on T.
With a low dose of alcohol under normal conditions you are right - it isn’t likely to harm T levels. In fact, it might even cause a transient rise. Just understand that I’m not talking about affecting “T by a trillionth of a gram”. This is all about what can happen during PCT, when T levels are ALREADY low. Shit, I don’t sweat about having a drink under normal conditions (nor am I one of those people that wakes up to have a 3 am snack so I “don’t become catabolic”).
Btw, I have seen a friend develop liver trouble from a high dose of dbol and very small amounts of alcohol and painkillers. He came through just fine but doesn’t even take aspirin now. As I plan on living a long life, I don’t get too cocky about chemicals.
i just got everything in the mail (xtreme tren, nolva, supports, and test booster…6-0x0).
questions, ive loaded on the cycle support for a week now; is this sufficient and do you continue your suports in pct?
next question, is it worth taking the nolva and 6-oxo or just stick with the nolva and forget about wasting the test booster during pct?
[quote]All2ez wrote:
i just got everything in the mail (xtreme tren, nolva, supports, and test booster…6-0x0).
questions, ive loaded on the cycle support for a week now; is this sufficient and do you continue your suports in pct?
next question, is it worth taking the nolva and 6-oxo or just stick with the nolva and forget about wasting the test booster during pct?[/quote]
Yes run the supports on cycle, and during PCT. The only supports I drop in PCT are blood pressure lowering ones.
Use the test booster in your normalisation period.
[quote]All2ez wrote:
i just got everything in the mail (xtreme tren, nolva, supports, and test booster…6-0x0).
questions, ive loaded on the cycle support for a week now; is this sufficient and do you continue your suports in pct?
next question, is it worth taking the nolva and 6-oxo or just stick with the nolva and forget about wasting the test booster during pct?[/quote]
Ditto on running cycle support throughout. That PH isn’t overly harsh on the liver, but you still want to protect the liver & lower your BP. Also though, you really should pre-load (and maintain) vit B6 (P5P) with this.
Those tren PHs change mfrs every 6 months or so lol, but if it still has the same formulation then it’s a progestin and you want to prevent prolactin-induced gyno. I don’t think there’s any need to run out and pick up caber, but I’d definitely take the P5P as a precaution.
Id avoid the progestin based PH’s like the plague.
I have read nothing but bad things about the compounds, and how they were designed.
Stick to the tried and true formulas that are based on real steroids and not progestins.
What blood pressure lowering supps do you guys recommend?