Professor X: A Request

Training Bodybuilding
442

[quote]MMAniac wrote:
Hey X I was wondering what your thoughts are on a clean bulk. I was thinking of eating above my maintenance level of calories but not by too much (like 500 cals). I know eating all clean it will be too difficult so some junkier food is necessary. [/quote]

Why are you more concerned with “clean” than whether you are eating enough to grow? I don’t care how “clean” you eat. That term means nothing to me anyway. You can find food that isn’t filled with sugar and saturated fat even at Mc Donald’s so what foods are “unclean” to you?

Pizza? Gee, yeah a pizza a day might just be a bad move…UNLESS you have a very fast metabolism and the rest of your diet is filling in any gaps in nutrition.

How “clean” you eat shouldn’t even be your 3rd or 4th priority. Your concern should be whether you are:
-eating enough food to gain anything
-eating enough protein to help build some muscle
-eating enough carbs to fuel your workouts and help get the calories in
-eating enough fat for reasons from hormone balance to even slowing down digestion in some cases.

If you can do all of this with “chicken breasts” more power to you but I hope you realize that it would take a shit load of chicken breasts to meet a high caloric need.

“Clean”? I’ll be sure to wash the next steak I grill…with soap,

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
“Clean”? I’ll be sure to wash the next steak I grill…with soap,[/quote]

Ha!

That’s all I have to add.

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All this is true, but I don’t see the need to eat “dirty” until the caloric amount reaches 4,000+.

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[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
All this is true, but I don’t see the need to eat “dirty” until the caloric amount reaches 4,000+.[/quote]

Define “dirt”.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
All this is true, but I don’t see the need to eat “dirty” until the caloric amount reaches 4,000+.

Define “dirt”.
[/quote]

I can’t speak for Bricknyce, but in my opinion, dirty is things like candy, ice cream, white starches, sugar, and alcohol. I’m sure I’m leaving some out.

I don’t think most of us eating 4000+ (I’m at ~3800) are eating chicken and broccoli all day.

I sometimes grab two hot-n-spicys from McDonalds, and put both patties on one bun. 540 calories, and almost 50 grams of protein. I regularly eat chili with chopped sirloin mixed in. I drink a half gallon of whole milk a day.

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A lot of people consider fast food dirty as well, even with the macros on some stuff is far from “bad.”

Such an ambiguous word.

448

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
All this is true, but I don’t see the need to eat “dirty” until the caloric amount reaches 4,000+.

Define “dirt”.

I can’t speak for Bricknyce, but in my opinion, dirty is things like candy, ice cream, white starches, sugar, and alcohol. I’m sure I’m leaving some out.

I don’t think most of us eating 4000+ (I’m at ~3800) are eating chicken and broccoli all day.

I sometimes grab two hot-n-spicys from McDonalds, and put both patties on one bun. 540 calories, and almost 50 grams of protein. I regularly eat chili with chopped sirloin mixed in. I drink a half gallon of whole milk a day.
[/quote]

I rarely drink alcohol unless I am with friends…and even then it is rare. I don’t eat candy, cookies or cake aside from very rare occasions. I can, however, knock out a triple Whopper in about 5 min and still eat again in 2 hours.

Some of these terms need to die. I haven’t seen anyone here tell someone to eat more candy.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
DOHCrazy wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
All this is true, but I don’t see the need to eat “dirty” until the caloric amount reaches 4,000+.

Define “dirt”.

I can’t speak for Bricknyce, but in my opinion, dirty is things like candy, ice cream, white starches, sugar, and alcohol. I’m sure I’m leaving some out.

I don’t think most of us eating 4000+ (I’m at ~3800) are eating chicken and broccoli all day.

I sometimes grab two hot-n-spicys from McDonalds, and put both patties on one bun. 540 calories, and almost 50 grams of protein. I regularly eat chili with chopped sirloin mixed in. I drink a half gallon of whole milk a day.

I rarely drink alcohol unless I am with friends…and even then it is rare. I don’t eat candy, cookies or cake aside from very rare occasions. I can, however, knock out a triple Whopper in about 5 min and still eat again in 2 hours.

Some of these terms need to die. I haven’t seen anyone here tell someone to eat more candy.

[/quote]

I agree.

I was on your side of the argument. Hard to tell your tone of voice through text.

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Dirty doesn’t mean bad. I believe the term to be a neutral word describing foods that are off the list of traditional bodybuilding food items.

For examples:
Pizza
Cheeseburgers
French fries
Ice cream
Whole milk
Fried chicken and fish
Mashed potatoes (made with all the works)

Again, these aren’t “bad”, to me at least.

451

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Dirty doesn’t mean bad. I believe the term to be a neutral word describing foods that are off the list of traditional bodybuilding food items.

For examples:
Pizza
Cheeseburgers
French fries
Ice cream
Whole milk
Fried chicken and fish
Mashed potatoes (made with all the works)

Again, these aren’t “bad”, to me at least. [/quote]

I don’t think whole milk and fried meat should be in the same category as french fries and ice cream.

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thats for the replies X and C_C. I do have a training partner so I can train to positive (and even negative) failure on everything apart from maybe squats if I wanted to, but I just wanted ur general opinion on whether it is necessary to push urself that far to get the most out of a working set.

453

[quote]DOHCrazy wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
Dirty doesn’t mean bad. I believe the term to be a neutral word describing foods that are off the list of traditional bodybuilding food items.

For examples:
Pizza
Cheeseburgers
French fries
Ice cream
Whole milk
Fried chicken and fish
Mashed potatoes (made with all the works)

Again, these aren’t “bad”, to me at least.

I don’t think whole milk and fried meat should be in the same category as french fries and ice cream.

[/quote]

Then don’t.

454

[quote]Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:
Prof. X you often give advice to the skinnier members of the site to just bulk up and not even think about cutting because they have no muscle to show. For the record I generally agree with that.

However, lets just say a kid came to you at 185lb. and 20% body fat. Maybe he’s in high school and is the typical overweight kid wanting to get thin but really has no significant amount of muscle to show. Would you still suggest he bulk? Psychologically I think the last thing he would want to do at that point would be to gain even more weight and put on even more fat. What do you think? I mean I see if its some kid with 10-15% but if the person obviously is overweight and even at the point of being mocked for his size what would you suggest?

Why would someone who is that fat “bulk” at all? Has ANYONE here ever seen me write that someone over 20% body fat needs to “bulk up”?

However, that does not mean everyone who gets a reading of “20%” needs to immediately start dieting either.

The main problem that I can see on this board is the clear lack of intensity when training. If this were not the case, there wouldn’t be a hoard of people on this site who somehow hit about 15" in their arm circumference and then never move much past it.

If someone is a newbie, they need to first get their ass in the gym on a regular basis while lifting as if the goal is to gain size and strength.

Why?

Because losing body fat is NOT that damn hard, especially for the guy who truly understands how to make his muscles grow.

Going the route touted by some of the authors here seems to create newly lean people with skinny bodies who are afraid to ever gain much weight after that for fear of becoming obese.

I mean, LOOK AROUND and the majority here fit that category.

How many of these people drop weight as rank beginners using special diets…and THEN gain a ton of muscle? Are there even two people like that on this site?

No, they shouldn’t “bulk up” if they are already too fat, but they should start this training as if the goal is to improve and get stronger FIRST.

The exception being someone who is truly obese where their health is the primary concern.

However, why, on a bodybuilding discussion forum, would someone not have the goal of carrying a lot of muscle mass? Losing the body fat and leaning up to a significant degree is what you do when you have something to lean down to…not when the only thing holding your bones together is spaghetti-like muscles.[/quote]

Ha ha, you mean muscles don’t magically appear from nothing when you get lean enough? I have a friend who wants to start cutting and is always asking me about fat burners and such. Problem is he’s 175 with very little muscular definition and is pretty soft. He’s not strong, has no work capacity and takes like 8 minutes between sets while he talks and screws around.

He doesn’t need to cut, he just needs to train harder and keep eating the same, if not more. But training harder is much more difficult than eating less. That’s the sad truth about bulking vs cutting.

455

[quote]conorh wrote:
Professor X wrote:
pumped340 wrote:

The exception being someone who is truly obese where their health is the primary concern.

Ha ha, you mean muscles don’t magically appear from nothing when you get lean enough? I have a friend who wants to start cutting and is always asking me about fat burners and such. Problem is he’s 175 with very little muscular definition and is pretty soft. He’s not strong, has no work capacity and takes like 8 minutes between sets while he talks and screws around.

He doesn’t need to cut, he just needs to train harder and keep eating the same, if not more. But training harder is much more difficult than eating less. That’s the sad truth about bulking vs cutting.[/quote]

Does your friend have health issues even at a low body weight? I was still very small at 247lbs, but my blood pressure, blood sugar levels and family history of diabetes made my doctor harp on me losing weight constantly.

456

[quote]Professor X wrote:
SteelyD wrote:
PX -

Getting back on track–

How’s the diet-down going? At least the last I read you started / were-considering dieting down some.

  1. How have you changed your diet
  2. How is your strength
  3. How are you holding your size (ie arm/leg size)?

I was holding my weight for the past few months. The only big changes in my diet lately has simply been the addition of a hell of a lot of steak and a decrease in my carbohydrate intake. I was trying to see if I could achieve some level of body comp change without changing my body weight much…because I like being this size.

My strength has increased slightly.

Yes, I am holding my size. I am adding two cardio sessions in and attempting to keep my food intake exactly where it is just to see what happens. I am avoiding doing what I’ve done in the past when I have dropped my caloric intake really low.

In years past, I had to drop weight every year in the military for the pt test. That meant I held onto less muscle than I could if I held my heaviest weight for longer periods of time. Now I get to see if holding that weight for longer makes a difference. From what I can tell, it makes a HUGE difference.[/quote]

Would you recommend this for a person who just got done with a bad bulk? When i say that i mean from a year i went from 150-200lbs gained WAYYY to much fat i was at 25-26% percent now i am down to 185lbs but still at like 20-21%. It was a bad bulk i have gotten that not enough intensity(my strength has only marginally gone up since then), eating to much carbs and not enough protein.

Im kinda at a crossroads at the moment on what to do. I decided
to start “bulking” again and just kept the carbs in control. Would running on off days for abotu 20minutes be a good idea and see were that takes me?

I can deal with being fat just not OBESE, even though i look like it because all the fat goes to my gut hardly anywere else. It hurts my chances of getting laid but i always have PALMAHANDERSON Hey OHH. Okay im done.

And thanks for the help

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[quote]InTranceWeTrust wrote:

Would you recommend this for a person who just got done with a bad bulk? When i say that i mean from a year i went from 150-200lbs gained WAYYY to much fat i was at 25-26% percent now i am down to 185lbs but still at like 20-21%. It was a bad bulk i have gotten that not enough intensity(my strength has only marginally gone up since then), eating to much carbs and not enough protein. [/quote]

You call all of that a “bad bulk”? I call it “not training and eating too much”. If your strength increased that poorly, you were just in the gym taking up space and then overeating after that. That isn’t “bulking up” at all. That’s being lazy.

The bad thing is, people see lifters like you and assume this is what any of us are talking about when we are discussing “bulking up”. It isn’t. NONE of us are telling people to just get fat. If you are gaining that much fat and no muscle is coming along with it to justify it you are doing the complete opposite of what we intend.

In fact, if you can make gains in muscle mass OPTIMALLY and have the genetics to remain extremely lean at the same time, obviously no one is telling such a person to gain more body fat for no reason.

You seem very confused about this.

If you are truly over 20% body fat, then it means you need to have tighter control of your diet. Yes, you should reduce carbs and control your eating closely, but again it does not mean you need to jump on a diet immediately either. Your approach depends on how your own body is responding…and from the sounds of things, someone who avoided training with high intensity from the beginning is lacking some serious basics when it comes to this in the first place. That intensity is what I would change and work on first and then see how your body responds. Your next step depends on that alone.

[quote]
I can deal with being fat just not OBESE, even though i look like it because all the fat goes to my gut hardly anywere else. It hurts my chances of getting laid but i always have PALMAHANDERSON Hey OHH. Okay im done.

And thanks for the help[/quote]

You were “obese” when you were 26% body fat. No one is telling anyone to become obese.

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Hey PX -

I remember some time ago you wrote that you were hitting shoulders twice a week.

What was your M.O. doing that? Did you do your standard routine one day then duplicate the second day (same, diff weight/reps, etc), or different movements altogeter?

Did you give them their own 2nd day or just group with with something else you were doing?

459

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Hey PX -

I remember some time ago you wrote that you were hitting shoulders twice a week.

What was your M.O. doing that? Did you do your standard routine one day then duplicate the second day (same, diff weight/reps, etc), or different movements altogeter?

Did you give them their own 2nd day or just group with with something else you were doing?[/quote]

I train on average about 6 days a week. Regardless of what I do, if I keep that schedule, I end up repeating something. Whatever I am working on in terms of “bringing it up” gets trained twice as a result. I don’t change my routine. In fact, short of HOW I do certain exercises, I haven’t changed my overall set up in several years.

I trained shoulders yesterday. I did 3-4 sets on the overhead press machine (I use this as a warm up going up to the whole stack). I then did 3 sets of HS high incline presses (If I drop the seat on these, they hit my anterior delts…this machine is NOT the same as their regular incline press).

I then did side lateral raises using the machine where the pads rest on your forearms. I generally do the stack plus a 45 plate and a quarter hanging off he side for the last set.

Then I did shrugs for 3 sets squeezing at the top of the movement.

That is how I train my shoulders right now whenever I train them. The incline press was added in around last year simply because I found the machine at a new gym.

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Professor X, with the intensity that you train and going to or almost to failure on ur working sets. Do you always get sore the next day? I just did legs yesterday and today there not sore at all is that telling me that i didn’t work them hard enough?

461

[quote]optheta wrote:
Professor X, with the intensity that you train and going to or almost to failure on ur working sets. Do you always get sore the next day? I just did legs yesterday and today there not sore at all is that telling me that i didn’t work them hard enough?[/quote]

I don’t always feel sore. I rarely feel sore in my shoulders or in my back unless I am trying a new movement. Soreness alone has never been an indicator or whether you worked hard enough to promote growth. Different muscle groups don’t always respond the same…and that alone is highly individual. I don’t feel sore in my quads but my knees hurt after leg day.