I appreciate all your comments guys, both the suggestions and the ones calling me out on my crap. Please keep them coming as…
I’m taking 6 more days to contemplate my next steps while I let most of the drugs clear out of my system. Why 6 more days? It’s been 2 days already. By day 8, half the T Cyp in my system should be out, 3/4 of the NPP in my system should be out, and nearly all the Anastrozole will be out.
I figure this’ll give me a SOMEWHAT clean slate before starting the new protocol. But I do realize that there will still be some hormone and enzyme fluctuations going on.
I also feel the need to post some before pics, stats, feelings, so guys can see real-world results of messing around too much, and then hopefully, a success story.
See entire log above for what happens when you mess around too much.
Here’s Current state with pic: 40 y/o male, 198 lbs, 34.5” waist, 18-20% body fat. Current lifts: Incline Bench 230x5, Squat 345x5, RDL 350x10, Seated Press 175x5. Most days Libido is 5/10, mood 4/10, confidence 5/10, sense of well-being is 4/10. Joints and muscles feel 4/10(some days 3/10).
First off all. Your starting stats are better than most guys ending stats on here, so good job on that!
Secondly, don’t stop the injections. Just continue with the new protocol, and let your next injection day be at the new dose. There is no reason to crash it before bringing it back up again.
Thanks galgenstrick. I’m just trying to give my body a few days rest before injecting again. Had some pretty scary sides the other day and want to just allow some things to come down, not crash. 8 days seemed about right.
Important update to share with the masses…4 days since injecting anything or taking Anastrozole and woke up STILL experiencing:
Headaches
Tightness in chest
Shortness of breath
Blurred vision
Elevated heart rate
Went to Red Cross to donate blood first thing this morning and INSTANT SYMPTOM RELIEF! Lady told me to sit in waiting area after donating because I might not feel well. I told her, “Actually, ma’am, I’m feeling better by the minute!” She just gave me a very confused look.
-I can’t be sure.
-I’ve read that TRT can raise hematocrit and cause symptoms consistent with polycythemia vera.
-My labs showed high hematocrit.
I had 10 out of 12 of the symptoms below for 14 days straight
-I was desperate, so I gave it a try.
-It worked
Well it’s been a couple weeks since I gave blood, took a few days off, and restarted the protocol that I was prescribed. It’s going MUCH better this time around. So, it would seem that giving blood helped. It WAS NOT the Anastrozole or the NPP causing all the horrible sides, because I am taking both, just as before, and feeling pretty good. Here’s the current protocol, as prescribed, 2weeks in, and going pretty well so far. Feeling good not great, seeing moderate gains in the gym, mood is decent, libido is good but nothing crazy.
100mg Test EOD
50mg NPP EOD
.25 Anastrozole ED
Baby aspirin ED
Another update. About a month on this protocol now and feeling pretty good. Mood and well-being are best in a while, joint pain and fatigue are still improving, gains in the gym are still steady. Libido is there when I need it, but not so strong that it interferes with life. Overall, winning right now.
Only one negative is my appetite is off the charts, causing me to eat everything in sight and it’s added some fat. I get that diet discipline is all me. But man! These cravings are insane!
Ha ha. Nah, he’s at a legitimate clinic and the scripts came with the medications.
Agreed, the dosages are pretty high. But I honestly only feel and perform slightly better than I did on 200/wk. Correction: I just looked back through my training journal and I made FASTER progress on 200/wk. So the only difference at these doses is a moderate improvement in feelings of well being. definitely hasn’t been the superhuman mental and physical boost that I expected it to.
Hey everyone. Realized it has been almost three weeks since I updated this log.
New development is…I cleaned up diet and stopped eating everything in sight. I eat a clean 4,000/day now. I also had to stop the NPP again. This was my second go at it and some of the sides started creeping in again, specifically very swollen ankles, headaches, and poor mood. Maybe I could endure them if I were seeing ANY benefit of taking it, but I have not. I DID NOT experience the joint pain relief that it’s touted for (and the reason I was put on it). I DID experience decreased gym performance, same bedroom performance, same life performance, and sides mentioned above. I realize everyone is different but for me, NPP is no good and I can’t recommend it.
Stopped it one week ago, continued everything else as prescribed, and I’m looking, feeling and performing a bit better. Hoping this continues as the NPP clears completely out.
I know some folks have mentioned that my current protocol looks more like a cycle and are curious what my bloodwork looks like. I will post labs when the Dr. orders them done. I gotta tell you all, anecdotally, I just look, feel, and perform so so. Not at all what I would expect from 350mgs T/wk, heavy compound lifting 3xweek, and a clean 4,000 cals/day.
Have an awesome week everyone, I’m off to choke down some almond butter, protein powder, and bananas.
A year on TRT (with new labs). As I said from my first post on TNation, my intent is to give back to the TNation community I learned so much from. In that spirit, here are the bad and the good, what I’ve learned, and recent labs, after one year on TRT.
The bad:
I still have not found a protocol that makes me feel what I would call good, let alone great. I’ve tried them all - injection frequencies from once/wk to daily, doses from 100mgs/wk to 385mgs/wk, with an AI, without an AI, added on NPP, stopped NPP. I’ve felt good on rare occasions for 1-2 days, then back to crap. So, never dialed in.
Regardless of protocol, I’ve never been able to evade four side effects - insomnia, fatigue, headaches, and acne. They are with me every moment of every day of my life.
It has made me more angry (at the higher doses). It’s been said on the forums before…"if you’re an asshole before high doses, you’ll be an even bigger asshole on high doses. I’ve found that to be very true for me.
In spite of eating clean 90% of time, I still look like shit. I’m currently 205 at about 18% BF. Not impressive at all.
The good:
I’m, by far, the strongest I’ve ever been in my life. My strength has skyrocketed. In one year, my squat has gone from 225x5 to 385x5. My RDL went from 275x10 to 500x10. My seated overhead press went from 115x5 to 195x5. It’s been amazing!
I’m slightly bigger than I was before and people have noticed. I do enjoy the “Wow, you got a lot bigger!” comments from friends.
My libido and confidence in the bedroom are very high. Before TRT, I had ED.
I’ve learned A LOT about the human body. In my quest for the right protocol, I’ve spent countless hours reading forums like this one and PubMed studies, and learned A LOT.
Things I’ve learned during this year WARNING: What applies to me may not be even remotely true for you. We are all very different.
Higher doses do not = more gains in the gym. Above a certain amount, I just get more side effects and the same amount of gains. For me, this amount is 300mgs/wk of T. Going up to 385mgs/wk worsened sides and did nothing for strength/size. No idea how dudes do a gram or more of gear/wk.
I have low SHBG, so I do better on smaller, more frequent dosing. Once a week made me spike and crash. I feel best on dailies. Check your SHBG before you wonder why 1 x wk doesn’t work for you.
NPP is a catch 22 for me. I love the size and strength but get bad sides. I’ve kept Test the same and my doc added in 175/wk NPP for joint pain. All I got were worse sides - specifically crushing headaches and lower back pain (weird, I know). I did not experience the deca dick I’ve read about everywhere. I experienced quite the opposite, actually. My libido was the strongest it has ever been on 385mgsT and 175mgs NPP a week. I plan to try NPP again soon at a 1:1 ratio with Test.
Before TRT, muscle recovery was the limiting factor in my training. On TRT, it has been my CNS. I can now do the ultimate killer, high-rep deadlifts, and feel zero muscle soreness in the days after, but if I take more than 3 sets of any movement to failure in a workout, my mind and energy are toast for days.
Some guys need an AI. I said it! Even at a low does of 150/wk, if I don’t take an AI, I get uncontrollable sugar cravings, super oily skin, horrible acne, extreme fatigue, and moon face. Not good. When I pop .5mg Anastrozole, all that improves in 2-3 days. For reference and to spark raging debate, my attached labs are on 150/wk Test and 1mg/wk anastrozole. You can see my E2 is at the high end of reference range. I aromatize A LOT, probably because I’m fat (18%). If you’re fat and on TRT, the “stop taking an AI” advice might not be right for you. Ideally, lose the fat and then stop the AI. You’d be doing your health two favors.
Which is a nice segue into my last lesson learned. This stuff is not as hazardous to your health as some make it out to be. Testosterone, even at 385/wk, even with 1.75mgs/wk anastrozole, even with NPP added in at times, has not done any damage to my health markers. Peep my labs. THis is after months of 385/wk Test, 1.75mg/wk AI, and a 6-week go at 175/wk NPP. I only dropped down to 150mgs two weeks before these labs. Everything is within range. I know there are no lipids but I don’t care. Everything looks fine, my doctor says I’m fine, my BP is 121/75 and my resting heart rate stays between 50-55. Lord willing, it doesn’t look high- dose T is going to kill me.
So without further ado, here are my labs. I’ll watch my email for any questions/comments/flames you all might have. Stay strong guys!
While it may be obvious to seasoned guys I like you stating this matter of factly. We all have different reactions/sides. I’m surprised the NPP didn’t do more for your body comp. Its pretty powerful.
With regard to labs, how long were they taken post injection? What was your dosing when the labs where drawn?
Blshaw the labs were taken 12 hours after my daily injection of 21mgs test. My dosing was 150mgs/wk Test, 1mg week AI, for two weeks before these labs.
Prior to that, dosing was 385/wk T, 1.75/wk AI, for many months.
Ok so you are going to have some residual higher test from that prior dose after only two weeks. With a daily injection you don’t need to worry about the peak/valleys as much for timing the labs. Everything looks pretty good for that 150mg/wk dose. Are you going to keep blasting it up to 300mg?
FWIW 18% BF is not fat. For a male anything under 20% is pretty much better than the average joe.
I said it! Even at a low does of 150/wk, if I don’t take an AI, I get uncontrollable sugar cravings, super oily skin, horrible acne, extreme fatigue, and moon face. Not good. When I pop .5mg Anastrozole, all that improves in 2-3 days. For reference and to spark raging debate, my attached labs are on 150/wk Test and 1mg/wk anastrozole. You can see my E2 is at the high end of reference range. I aromatize A LOT, probably because I’m fat (18%). If you’re fat and on TRT, the “stop taking an AI” advice might not be right for you. Ideally, lose the fat and then stop the AI. You’d be doing your health two favors.
