Professional Prurience

Off Topic
61

[quote]Professor X wrote:
belligerent wrote:
answer: you don’t

That’s been my take on it up to this point…but…TENS.

In fact, one wasn’t a dime…more like a buck and a quarter. This is unfair.[/quote]

I think you can, but don’t be overt about it - be ambiguous in your intentions and ask for something that could be interpreted as friendly, like meeting for coffee. Then let most/all of the progression occur outside of the professional context. If it becomes more follow Mufasa’s advice.

This is of course after making non-threatening small talk, establishing some common interest to discuss over said coffee, and making sure there is some reciprocal interest.

I think in your profession you’re OK making friendly contact if interpreting you correctly and you’re not talking about an employee (those pharmaceutical reps are HOT, and if that’s the case you’re describing she has more to worry about ethically anyway, given you’re the targeted business client) - not like a therapist, a commanding officer, a boss or something like that…

ADDENDUM: Ah, just re-read and saw you referenced a patient in the original post, so my tangent on the pharmaceutical reps isn’t applicable - I still think you’re OK if you follow the course of the rest of my response. Also, just read CLaw’s post and I agree completely. When I was a teacher for The Princeton Review I dated a couple of students (from my grad-level classes, not the SAT classes, lest you think it was age-inappropriate), but I waited until after the class was over to ask them out.

62

I met my wife at work almost 20 years ago.

Strike up a conversation with her and ask her what she likes to do for fun. Show an interest and ask her if you can do it with her. At that point you’ll be able to tell if she has an interest in you or not.

If you are reading her right you are good to go. If you aren’t you know to let her pass by and wait for the next one.

63

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
Situational ethics. Does the fact that they are a 10 really change the equation?

Yes.

For $10 an hour, I wouldn’t flip burgers.

For $200 an hour, I would.

The potential payoff is always a consideration.

Any other pop philosophy questions; or do you want to do some real thinking and analysis?[/quote]

You missed the most important word in his statement. It is a questions of ETHICS. While the potential payoff is always a consideration, there is nothing unethical about flipping burgers. There MAY be something unethical about picking up a patient.

How’s that, smarty pants?

64

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How do you ask the patient you are treating if she would like to come by your house later?
[/quote]

Just stalk her in the parking lot.

65

When the next 10 saunters into your office, barricade the door and laugh maniacally. Or if you want to be more subtle, you can always tell her she sure has a pretty mouth. It shows interest and can still be interpretted as professional in a court of law.

Lol, seriously though, if it were me I wouldn’t risk it.

66

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Professor X wrote:
belligerent wrote:
answer: you don’t

That’s been my take on it up to this point…but…TENS.

In fact, one wasn’t a dime…more like a buck and a quarter. This is unfair.

I think you can, but don’t be overt about it - be ambiguous in your intentions and ask for something that could be interpreted as friendly, like meeting for coffee. Then let most/all of the progression occur outside of the professional context. If it becomes more follow Mufasa’s advice.

This is of course after making non-threatening small talk, establishing some common interest to discuss over said coffee, and making sure there is some reciprocal interest.

I think in your profession you’re OK making friendly contact if interpreting you correctly and you’re not talking about an employee (those pharmaceutical reps are HOT, and if that’s the case you’re describing she has more to worry about ethically anyway, given you’re the targeted business client) - not like a therapist, a commanding officer, a boss or something like that…

ADDENDUM: Ah, just re-read and saw you referenced a patient in the original post, so my tangent on the pharmaceutical reps isn’t applicable - I still think you’re OK if you follow the course of the rest of my response. Also, just read CLaw’s post and I agree completely. When I was a teacher for The Princeton Review I dated a couple of students (from my grad-level classes, not the SAT classes, lest you think it was age-inappropriate), but I waited until after the class was over to ask them out.[/quote]

No one ever said anything about dating the students?

I don’t see a problem with it at all, I am just wondering what the perception was.

67

[quote]Professor X wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
Professor X wrote:
belligerent wrote:
answer: you don’t

That’s been my take on it up to this point…but…TENS.

In fact, one wasn’t a dime…more like a buck and a quarter. This is unfair.

I think you can, but don’t be overt about it - be ambiguous in your intentions and ask for something that could be interpreted as friendly, like meeting for coffee. Then let most/all of the progression occur outside of the professional context. If it becomes more follow Mufasa’s advice.

This is of course after making non-threatening small talk, establishing some common interest to discuss over said coffee, and making sure there is some reciprocal interest.

I think in your profession you’re OK making friendly contact if interpreting you correctly and you’re not talking about an employee (those pharmaceutical reps are HOT, and if that’s the case you’re describing she has more to worry about ethically anyway, given you’re the targeted business client) - not like a therapist, a commanding officer, a boss or something like that…

ADDENDUM: Ah, just re-read and saw you referenced a patient in the original post, so my tangent on the pharmaceutical reps isn’t applicable - I still think you’re OK if you follow the course of the rest of my response. Also, just read CLaw’s post and I agree completely. When I was a teacher for The Princeton Review I dated a couple of students (from my grad-level classes, not the SAT classes, lest you think it was age-inappropriate), but I waited until after the class was over to ask them out.

No one ever said anything about dating the students?

I don’t see a problem with it at all, I am just wondering what the perception was.[/quote]

I work for a state university and that is explicitly frowned upon but done any way.

68

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
You missed the most important word in his statement. It is a questions of ETHICS. While the potential payoff is always a consideration, there is nothing unethical about flipping burgers. There MAY be something unethical about picking up a patient.

How’s that, smarty pants?[/quote]

Wrong. There is no ethical question involved. There is nothing unethical about a dental surgeon dating his patient. There is no power imbalance.

It’s an issue of whether something is worth the risk.

Hey, I think it’s great you 18- and 19-year old kids are taking Philosophy 101 classes. But you can’t just throw around “situational ethics” and expect that others who know what they are talking about won’t correct you.

69

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Tough situation, man.

The “easy” answer is: Don’t.

But life is seldom easy.

Look at all the simplistic answers here.
[/quote]

I generally agree with your post. That said, the “simplistic” answers are often provided because we do not have access to all of the information pertinent to the situation. Lawyers do the same thing… err on the side of caution. You are right that you have to weigh the potential costs against the potential benefits. Depending on the work environment (since we have no way of knowing), those costs could include the mere annoyance of having to deal with the (possible) spillover of personal relationships into the workplace, or even the loss of a job. There may be nothing legally or ethically wrong with terminating the doctor/patient relationship and dating, but does X own the practice? If he severs that relationship, the practice is losing a client, and potentially a lot of money. Are we sure there will be no repercussions? If he loses his job, he has to buy a new suit ($600? At least?) and go through the hassle of interviewing or setting up his own practice. That could be costly, and very inconvenient if he doesn’t intend to marry the woman.

70

[quote]nephorm wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
Tough situation, man.

The “easy” answer is: Don’t.

But life is seldom easy.

Look at all the simplistic answers here.

I generally agree with your post. That said, the “simplistic” answers are often provided because we do not have access to all of the information pertinent to the situation. Lawyers do the same thing… err on the side of caution. You are right that you have to weigh the potential costs against the potential benefits. Depending on the work environment (since we have no way of knowing), those costs could include the mere annoyance of having to deal with the (possible) spillover of personal relationships into the workplace, or even the loss of a job. There may be nothing legally or ethically wrong with terminating the doctor/patient relationship and dating, but does X own the practice? If he severs that relationship, the practice is losing a client, and potentially a lot of money. Are we sure there will be no repercussions? If he loses his job, he has to buy a new suit ($600? At least?) and go through the hassle of interviewing or setting up his own practice. That could be costly, and very inconvenient if he doesn’t intend to marry the woman.[/quote]

But then he has a new suit and a new practice, so it’s win win! Go for it, X!

71

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
You missed the most important word in his statement. It is a questions of ETHICS. While the potential payoff is always a consideration, there is nothing unethical about flipping burgers. There MAY be something unethical about picking up a patient.

How’s that, smarty pants?

Wrong. There is no ethical question involved. There is nothing unethical about a dental surgeon dating his patient. There is no power imbalance.

It’s an issue of whether something is worth the risk.

Hey, I think it’s great you 18- and 19-year old kids are taking Philosophy 101 classes. But you can’t just throw around “situational ethics” and expect that others who know what they are talking about won’t correct you.[/quote]

No ethical question involved according to YOU. Everyone follows their own code of ethics.

I would figure an older, wiser, intellectual 60 year old like yourself would realize that.

72

try to score a chance meeting. If you are in a discussion, work it in. Make it a non committal chance meting. Be prepared. Fish, but let her sink the hook. Movie comes up, “maybe I’ll see you there” If restaurant talk comes up, throw in that you were thinking of trying it out (if a first time), or "I keep planning to go there… Try the “maybe I’ll see you there” or "I’ll leave a seat at the table open for you. If she backs off, let it go. Drop it quick. It really isn’t worth your career, but I don’t think a chance meeting crosses the professional boundary.
I know you are busy in your line of work. With limited time, you can’t let every one get by. Good luck, though. Be careful

73

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:

I know you are busy in your line of work. With limited time, you can’t let every one get by. Good luck, though. Be careful[/quote]

That’s the biggest problem right now. If I don’t go to clubs or anything like that, my exposure is limited.

74

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How do you ask the patient you are treating if she would like to come by your house later?..without sounding like you do this to every patient you treat who looks cute?..and without sounding like you are unprofessional?

I am sure this can relate to all careers in some way…so how do you interact with the opposite sex in the one place where you aren’t supposed to?

[/quote]

Your first move should be to NOT ask her to come buy your place. That’s a bit forward and will probably come off as creepy. If you don’t drink, ask her to coffee or dinner. Go from there. I understand your hesitance being it’s work related, but it’s really no different than the “real world.”

75

If you are SURE there is interest from them, then take a shot. Something simple, meet for dinner, coffee, etc. Also, a big factor to take into consideration is your boss. Are you cool with him/her?

If you’re pretty sure that the patient is interested in you, then there’s probably not much to worry about with regard to her reporting you. And if you have a good relationship with your boss, then that’s another problem you don’t need to worry about.

Also, you’re not likely to get fired for asking one of these girls out. I don’t know the board disciplinary procedures, but I bet it’s safe to say that your job will not be in jeopardy… as long as you don’t become “that” guy.

76

I believe the only way is to strike conversation about her interests, place of work etc.

If she sells insurance…maybe you need to schedule an appointment???

Keep it pro until you leave the office. Then hit on her while shes trying to sell you.

77

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
You missed the most important word in his statement. It is a questions of ETHICS. While the potential payoff is always a consideration, there is nothing unethical about flipping burgers. There MAY be something unethical about picking up a patient.

How’s that, smarty pants?

Wrong. There is no ethical question involved. There is nothing unethical about a dental surgeon dating his patient. There is no power imbalance.

It’s an issue of whether something is worth the risk.

Hey, I think it’s great you 18- and 19-year old kids are taking Philosophy 101 classes. But you can’t just throw around “situational ethics” and expect that others who know what they are talking about won’t correct you.[/quote]

Oh come come now, CL. Methinks you’re just stirring the pot to see a reaction here because I cannot even begin to believe that you truly think there is no ethical issue, especially from a fellow who works within a self-regulated industry like you do (or Professor X does) with a very particular set of professional ethics guidelines.

78

[quote]Kuz wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
You missed the most important word in his statement. It is a questions of ETHICS. While the potential payoff is always a consideration, there is nothing unethical about flipping burgers. There MAY be something unethical about picking up a patient.

How’s that, smarty pants?

Wrong. There is no ethical question involved. There is nothing unethical about a dental surgeon dating his patient. There is no power imbalance.

It’s an issue of whether something is worth the risk.

Hey, I think it’s great you 18- and 19-year old kids are taking Philosophy 101 classes. But you can’t just throw around “situational ethics” and expect that others who know what they are talking about won’t correct you.

Oh come come now, CL. Methinks you’re just stirring the pot to see a reaction here because I cannot even begin to believe that you truly think there is no ethical issue, especially from a fellow who works within a self-regulated industry like you do (or Professor X does) with a very particular set of professional ethics guidelines.[/quote]

I think he just likes talking down to people. Don’t worry though, I’ll put him in his place as many times as needed.

79

[quote]Professor X wrote:
CLEAR interest…and my response is also to come across as anti-social or completely disinterested. I don’t want to risk anything at all just for a hook up. I think I limit myself by not going out as much as most of the people I hang out with.

They go to clubs every single weekend…and sometimes during the week. That’s all they do. That lifestyle has its place, but it just isn’t me.
[/quote]

This thread is all over the place. The issue is right here, hot chicks are flirting with him at work, he’s not sure what to do.

How the hell could flirting back be a problem? Where is the ethical dilemma? Taking it further obviously requires caution, but he doesn’t need to freeze up like a deer in the headlights.

80

[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:
Professor X wrote:
CLEAR interest…and my response is also to come across as anti-social or completely disinterested. I don’t want to risk anything at all just for a hook up. I think I limit myself by not going out as much as most of the people I hang out with.

They go to clubs every single weekend…and sometimes during the week. That’s all they do. That lifestyle has its place, but it just isn’t me.

This thread is all over the place. The issue is right here, hot chicks are flirting with him at work, he’s not sure what to do.

How the hell could flirting back be a problem? Where is the ethical dilemma? Taking it further obviously requires caution, but he doesn’t need to freeze up like a deer in the headlights.[/quote]

It’s only a problem to the extent being debated because of his chosen profession (although there are certainly other occasions where work and dating are a tough combination).