Proanorexia Site

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[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Zund wrote:
I used to suffer from (slightly milder) anorexia only about 1.5 years ago. I was about 115-120 lbs at a height of 6’5. I didn’t get any help or anything, actually, I stumbled across T-Nation, read about nutrition and so on, and I started seeing how I was wrong. I now weigh ~185lbs at the same height.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me anything you might wonder.

Haha, what a first post. I’ll be back in a couple of hours.

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?[/quote]

reading some of the entries, it seems self-contempt, self-hatred is a big component. yes?

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Can I just point out, we’re talking about those 3 body types? It’s pretty obvious most guys won’t go for the ones who are rounder than tall.

If you’re going to pick, pick from just those 3 bodies.

That 14 may well be your 10, depending on where you’re from.

Just to clear it up, it’s the UK size shown on that site.

http://www.thevine.com.au/news/news/new-revealing-figures.aspx?s_cid=network:ron:gen:apr08:apr09

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[quote]lil_azn wrote:
reading some of the entries, it seems self-contempt, self-hatred is a big component. yes? [/quote]

I have heard that people who suffer from anorexia and bulemia are usually the survivors of some kind of childhood trauma, often sexual abuse. They blame their own bodies for what happened to them, which is why, no matter how much weight they lose, they are never satisfied with how they look. Might be a lot of pop psychology BS though.

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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

I have heard that people who suffer from anorexia and bulemia are usually the survivors of some kind of childhood trauma, often sexual abuse. They blame their own bodies for what happened to them, which is why, no matter how much weight they lose, they are never satisfied with how they look. Might be a lot of pop psychology BS though.[/quote]

Not as many as you’d think. Some are really just attention whores. Which is really just sad, because that detracts from the minority with an actual problem.

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[quote]Makavali wrote:
Not as many as you’d think. Some are really just attention whores. Which is really just sad, because that detracts from the minority with an actual problem.[/quote]

When you say not as many as I’d think, do you mean some of the people on that site, or some anorexics in general? In my opinion, no one could do that to themselves without being kind of fucked in the head. However, there are plenty of people who grow up in great homes with great families and nothing bad ever happens to them who turn out kind of fucked up.

Which is why I think that theory is probably Pop-psychology BS. They want to point at a route cause for everything, when maybe some people’s wiring is just faulty from the beggining.

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Anorexia or any sort of prolonged starvation is not good in any sense, though I do think there is something to be learned from not eating for a few days or a week. Try it once in your life for the experience, then eat like a healthy human being. I fasted for seven days once, and I certainly feel like I understand my body more because of it. It’s strange to physically feel that you are malnourished, and the lack of energy that comes with the condition. I know I appreciate food more from the experience.

As far as what men prefer women to look like, I think most chaps enjoy a bit of thick opposed to overly thin. I’d have much more fun with a girl that was overweight than one who was underweight. An appreciable amount of fat is very feminine and sexy.

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[quote]Uncle Gabby wrote:

When you say not as many as I’d think, do you mean some of the people on that site, or some anorexics in general? In my opinion, no one could do that to themselves without being kind of fucked in the head. However, there are plenty of people who grow up in great homes with great families and nothing bad ever happens to them who turn out kind of fucked up.

Which is why I think that theory is probably Pop-psychology BS. They want to point at a route cause for everything, when maybe some people’s wiring is just faulty from the beggining.[/quote]

A true anorexic sees themselves as hideously fat. A lot of these so called anorexics (in general) know what they’re doing is bad for them, but they crave the attention. Both fucked up in the head, but I only wish bad things on one.

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[quote]Vicomte wrote:
I think most chaps enjoy a bit of thick opposed to overly thin. I’d have much more fun with a girl that was overweight than one who was underweight. An appreciable amount of fat is very feminine and sexy.[/quote]

That’s because it means you can throw them around the bed with fear of breaking something.

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[quote]Christine wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?

It’s like they use the same mirror that the skinny dudes use who post in RMP forum. They all think they’re huge.[/quote]

Madame, I present you your internet.

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[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Zund wrote:
I used to suffer from (slightly milder) anorexia only about 1.5 years ago. I was about 115-120 lbs at a height of 6’5. I didn’t get any help or anything, actually, I stumbled across T-Nation, read about nutrition and so on, and I started seeing how I was wrong. I now weigh ~185lbs at the same height.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me anything you might wonder.

Haha, what a first post. I’ll be back in a couple of hours.

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?[/quote]

You make up reasons for why having anorexia is better than not having it. For instance, I obviously had a “6 pack” that obviously was a result of having absolutely no fat on me, and thus I thought I was strong. In addition to this, I did more pull-ups than most people in my class one time, and this further made me think that I was “toned’”, or whatever.

Edit: That said, as I stated earlier, it didn’t have time to manifest into compulsive dieting, at least not actively. I was thinking that I shouldn’t eat as much and stuff, and therefore ate next to nothing, but I was nazi about keeping my weight “nice” and low.

In addition, I knew nothing about nutrition, and thought that thin=good, more thin=more good, (thanks media!). As no one tried to help me, no one contested these views, and I accepted it as fact. What saved me, was in short, reading about nutrition here, as said.

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[quote]lil_azn wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Zund wrote:
I used to suffer from (slightly milder) anorexia only about 1.5 years ago. I was about 115-120 lbs at a height of 6’5. I didn’t get any help or anything, actually, I stumbled across T-Nation, read about nutrition and so on, and I started seeing how I was wrong. I now weigh ~185lbs at the same height.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me anything you might wonder.

Haha, what a first post. I’ll be back in a couple of hours.

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?

reading some of the entries, it seems self-contempt, self-hatred is a big component. yes? [/quote]

Definitely this, I moved into this town when I was about 7, and I had a completely different accent/dialect, and I got sort of bullied, got more introverted, started playing World of Warcraft because it was the only place I felt accepted, I really did hate myself for that period, concluding that people wouldn’t really miss me all that much, were I to kill myself. It’s really weird, when I think about it

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[quote]Zund wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Zund wrote:
I used to suffer from (slightly milder) anorexia only about 1.5 years ago. I was about 115-120 lbs at a height of 6’5. I didn’t get any help or anything, actually, I stumbled across T-Nation, read about nutrition and so on, and I started seeing how I was wrong. I now weigh ~185lbs at the same height.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me anything you might wonder.

Haha, what a first post. I’ll be back in a couple of hours.

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?

You make up reasons for why having anorexia is better than not having it. For instance, I obviously had a “6 pack” that obviously was a result of having absolutely no fat on me, and thus I thought I was strong. In addition to this, I did more pull-ups than most people in my class one time, and this further made me think that I was “toned’”, or whatever.

Edit: That said, as I stated earlier, it didn’t have time to manifest into compulsive dieting, at least not actively. I was thinking that I shouldn’t eat as much and stuff, and therefore ate next to nothing, but I was nazi about keeping my weight “nice” and low.

In addition, I knew nothing about nutrition, and thought that thin=good, more thin=more good, (thanks media!). As no one tried to help me, no one contested these views, and I accepted it as fact. What saved me, was in short, reading about nutrition here, as said.[/quote]

Could you please share more about what turned your perspective. If someone did know an anorexic, well people aren’t always very receptive to help, and I was wondering what it takes to make someone realise how unhealthy and unattractive it is.

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[quote]will to power wrote:

Could you please share more about what turned your perspective. If someone did know an anorexic, well people aren’t always very receptive to help, and I was wondering what it takes to make someone realise how unhealthy and unattractive it is.[/quote]

Great question. Well, as said, my situation wasn’t as bad as some of the ones that have been posted in this thread. I thought I was too fat, but I didn’t go all sciency trying to kill myself.

That’s not to say that the principles aren’t the same. I do believe that different people need different treatments and such. Everyone has a point where they’ll realize that they’ve been thinking the wrong thing. Obviously this depends on how stubborn people are, and how logical they are.

I am very logical, and I believe that if it can’t be answered using logic and expertise, then it’s bullshit. To illustrate: I knew fuck-all about nutrition and training, what’s considered healthy for a young male and so on, and I stumble upon articles written by experts on nutrition and training. Me, being logical, isn’t about to say no to these people, and I’m able to see that, hey - this is true, I’m going to do this.

So I began eating even when I was not hungry, and I stopped trusting my stomach for how much was enough, and ate X amount of food in one day. I would literally not go to sleep until I had eaten enough. I was constantly on the verge of throwing up, but I still figured that these people weren’t experts for nothing, so they must know more than me.

I kept at it, and started feeling the effects I got from eating and lifting. My general feelings of uneasiness (slight pains around in the body and such) disappeared, and I got lots more energy. My grades improved, and so did my social skills, as I got more confidence.

However, most people aren’t this logical. Actually, most people are completely irrational. This, of course, includes anorectics. This goes hand in hand with my previously mentioned “facts” one makes up, to try to twist the situation. Everyone wants to feel special, and some may feel they’re better than everyone else. That they know something no one else does, that they are the best.

I believe the key is education. What’s right and what’s wrong in terms of nutrition (and training). I find it’s easier to accept something when I know how it works, because with proper reasoning, an idea is less likely to be bullshit (from the anorectic’s side).

They could think that people are jealous of their “perfect health”, and that what you’re saying is complete bullshit you say in order to fatten them up, so you will look better in comparison. It’s completely irrational, and I feel sort of stupid when I think about all of the irrational things I used to do.

Bottom line: I believe education about the relevant subjects with backing of sources is important, but people are different and that might not work for everyone.

Sorry about the wall of text, but it’s sort of nice to speak about it all. If I’ve worded something poorly and/or been vague, just say so, and I’ll rephrase. I’m Norwegian, so my English might not be perfect.

Also, I’m over it all, so if you think a question is too personal or whatever, just ask it. :slight_smile:

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[quote]Zund wrote:
Sorry about the wall of text, but it’s sort of nice to speak about it all. If I’ve worded something poorly and/or been vague, just say so, and I’ll rephrase. I’m Norwegian, so my English might not be perfect.

Also, I’m over it all, so if you think a question is too personal or whatever, just ask it. :-)[/quote]

Thank you for sharing that, and your English is just fine. You’ve helped me out a lot. If I do think of anything else though I’ll let you know.

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[quote]will to power wrote:
Thank you for sharing that, and your English is just fine. You’ve helped me out a lot. If I do think of anything else though I’ll let you know.[/quote]

No worries. PM me if you need specific advice on anything.

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Zund-
I’m assuming you’re a guy.

Is there more of a stigma against anorexia in men than in women?

What goes on in the mind to defend not eating when people start to criticise you for it? You mentioned earlier you didn’t experience any criticism and I find that difficult to believe. I mean… parents had to’ve known, right?

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[quote]Otep wrote:
Zund-
I’m assuming you’re a guy.

Is there more of a stigma against anorexia in men than in women?

What goes on in the mind to defend not eating when people start to criticise you for it? You mentioned earlier you didn’t experience any criticism and I find that difficult to believe. I mean… parents had to’ve known, right?[/quote]

I am a guy, luckily, as being a woman at 6’5 must suck. I’m 17 years old, 185lbs, and I live in Norway, just to make that clear.

Obviously there’s a lot more social stigma when you’re a guy. I really didn’t experience that part of it so much, as most people found out after I got well - I told them when the topic came up.

As I mentioned a bit earlier, I was in a state of denial. It didn’t even cross my mind that I had an eating disorder, and I can’t imagine most other anorectics do either. That’s the whole thing. People misinterpret “healthy and well trained” as thin, and think that more thin=more good, and thus think that I was the healthiest of them all. The people around me weren’t really helping either, as they said that I was a young boy in a growth spurt, and that all teenage guys are thin.

So, you basically create a barrier of fake facts to make yourself seem superior/normal. At least that’s what I (and the one other anorectic I’ve ever met face to face) have done.

And yeah, I may have been unclear - people around me were very… Shall I say passive aggressive, in a way. My mother was the only one who suspected an eating disorder, but she never said anything about it. My other family members were just assuming… something. I guess they thought I just didn’t eat enough, or something.

What they did was ridiculously stupid, and if you know an anorectic, you shouldn’t do what they did:

They basically invited me over for say, fish. They then proceeded to give me a giant plate full of fish and potatoes, and before I could take the plate, they slathered it all in melted butter, and watched me until I took a few bites.

This made me throw up one time - after that, they stopped. I still hate melted butter.

Obviously, this isn’t going to work. When you put out a fire, you aim for the base of the fire, not the extremities. Similarly, when you try to fix something like this, you have to remove whatever is causing you to act stupid.

The thing that people didn’t do, however, was to bust my “facts” open, so I still thought that I was a healthy young guy, that, due to being tall, was just a bit thin.

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A huge portion of high school age wrestlers are basically anorexic, and/or bulimic.

When I wrestled, I did some of the most restrictive, ridiculous diets, you could possibly think of.

The milk in the morning, half sandwich for lunch, and cup of fat free refried beans diet.

Plus 2 hours cardio and 1 hour lifting, 7 days a week.

Wanna go from 230 to 165 in less than 3 months?

It works, trust me.

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[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Zund wrote:
I used to suffer from (slightly milder) anorexia only about 1.5 years ago. I was about 115-120 lbs at a height of 6’5. I didn’t get any help or anything, actually, I stumbled across T-Nation, read about nutrition and so on, and I started seeing how I was wrong. I now weigh ~185lbs at the same height.

If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask me anything you might wonder.

Haha, what a first post. I’ll be back in a couple of hours.

Can you give us some insight into why these girls think they’re overweight when a simple look in the mirror shows otherwise?[/quote]

The simple answer is, they don’t. This is really a myth perpetuated by pop culture. I am not an expert, but I have had experience with people with eating disorders and the shrinks that deal with them.

Eating disorders are ways of alleviating guilt and pain. They are much like abuse of drugs, alcohol, self mutilation. It is really sick, but it is very effective, and because it works so well, it is very hard to cure.

Eating disorders usually happen when the girl ends up feeling guilty for everything that happens around her and resorts to self loathing. She ends up hating everything about herself, including her body, and takes her anger and hatred out on that. Sure, she ends up risking her life and destroying her body, but at least she feels better and has established power over at least something in her life – her weight. And she’s probably attracted plenty of attention in the process. And suddenly mommy/daddy listens. The attention, and the shrinks, the thousands of dollars of insurance money – they are all positive reinforcement.

You might have noticed that on some days, you look in the mirror and feel great about yourself, and on other days you don’t. Whatever your body composition goals are, you probably don’t look that different from day to day. What is different is how you feel in general. When you’re happy with yourself in general, that guy in the mirror tends to look a little more muscular, more slim. And when you feel bad about things, you tend to notice those love handles, the muscles that are lacking etc.

Now imagine a bulimic girl who feels like shit about her life, and the only way she can relieve guilt and cling onto any shred of power is to sit in her room and eat tubs of peanut butter all day, puking every 15 minutes by ramming a toothbrush down her throat. This effect is magnified, and makes it so addictive that it’s no wonder it’s so damned hard to cure. It doesn’t matter what the girl in the mirror actually looks like. What she sees is how she feels about herself.

So these girls cognitively know they are underweight, and none of them go around thinking they are overweight. But this doesn’t really matter. And the girls who are most at risk of developing eating disorders are wealthy, intelligent, and beautiful, at least until they tear themselves to shreds with their eating disorder.

So how do you cure eating disorders? There are two main schools of thought.

One is that you examine the circumstances that led to it, which are generally disfunctional relationships that cause the girl to feel powerless, too unsafe/vulnerable to communicate for real or imagined reasons, and where the girl ends up accepting an unrealistic and unmanageable share of guilt or blame. Fix these, and things start to look up. This is sometimes criticized because it “punishes the parents”.

The other school of thought is this – the girl is having a temper tantrum, stop paying so much attention, give her strict rules to follow, give her a few years and let maturity do some work. Let her “grow up” and cut the shit out. Give enough attention so that her health stays in check and that she doesn’t die, but otherwise, cut the therapy and support groups and everything out of the picture. Discipline, strict curfews, rules. This is a hissy fit, and should be treated as such. More of a “tough love” approach.

Which is correct? I don’t know. Whichever it is, the stakes are high, and opinionated people have probably already hastily decided which it is.

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I think you kind of see this with a lot of college girls too. There was an article in the school paper where the author claimed to overhear girls talking about going home to puke up the alcohol calories they had that night. Then you have some that starve themselves all day, but will drink some crap cappuccino or something. I think a lot of it has to do with people’s lack of knowledge regarding nutrition. I guess there was a girl in one of my classes raving about how good the candy was that she had been eating and that it was, “Fat Free!”

Bottom line, I think they turn skinny-fat so they start to see themselves as fat. If they ate right and worked out right instead of just over (or under) doing both, they’d look a lot better.