Pro-Lifer Throws Incendiary Device at PP

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

The fact that so many women use abortion for birth control is a sad fact indeed! That many men take no responsibility for birth-control is tragic as well.[/quote]

What?

You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.

What kind of discussion, I mean it is kind of settled that BC and abortion is wrong.

[quote]In our churches and at our social gatherings. I want any change that happens to be the result of persuasion and individual conviction, not by way of written law.
[/quote]

Sorry, I don’t agree…when abortion and contraception were illegal, we didn’t have all this trouble.

“Government is to govern those who can’t govern themselves.” - Burke(?)…like innocent children.

122

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.[/quote]

lol

123

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

The fact that so many women use abortion for birth control is a sad fact indeed! That many men take no responsibility for birth-control is tragic as well.[/quote]

What?

You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.

What kind of discussion, I mean it is kind of settled that BC and abortion is wrong.

[quote]In our churches and at our social gatherings. I want any change that happens to be the result of persuasion and individual conviction, not by way of written law.
[/quote]

Sorry, I don’t agree…when abortion and contraception were illegal, we didn’t have all this trouble.

“Government is to govern those who can’t govern themselves.” - Burke(?)…like innocent children.[/quote]

*I’ve seen little evidence that the government does an adequate job of governing anything. Some government is needed…try a little Bastiat if you haven’t already.
http://www.freeaudio.org/fbastiat/thelaw.html
*There were still many problems before RvW, some better, some worse.
*I fully support your right to believe that abortion and BC to be wrong right up to the point you want a law. I may even agree with you personally, but not about a law.
*70% chance? I’m not buying that. I’m 48 and have been active since I was 18. In 30 years the only pregnancy I’ve ever had to deal with was the one my wife and I planned.
*Men should be just as pro-active as women.

124

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Deorum made a valid point before. Instead of going for walks and holding up signs, why don’t you all adopt these children that would have been otherwise aborted?[/quote]

You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. The choice is whether or not to have sex. If you are having sex than you should be prepared to face the consequences. STDs or pregnancy. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

So if I rape you and impregnate you can you legally get an abortion? Where does your sex “choice” factor into that question?

125

[quote]Deorum wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Deorum made a valid point before. Instead of going for walks and holding up signs, why don’t you all adopt these children that would have been otherwise aborted?[/quote]

You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. The choice is whether or not to have sex. If you are having sex than you should be prepared to face the consequences. STDs or pregnancy. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

So if I rape you and impregnate you can you legally get an abortion? Where does your sex “choice” factor into that question?[/quote]

If you raped me and I became pregnant, I might kill you but not my innocent baby. The baby did nothing wrong. There are sad cases. But it is 9 months of the mother’s life. The baby could be adopted.

The sex choice is to focus on the real problem. Unwanted pregnancies. We don’t have to find parents for all the unwanted babies. The better solution is to prevent the pregnancy.

126

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Deorum made a valid point before. Instead of going for walks and holding up signs, why don’t you all adopt these children that would have been otherwise aborted?[/quote]

You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. The choice is whether or not to have sex. If you are having sex than you should be prepared to face the consequences. STDs or pregnancy. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

As of last night 40 days has saved 147 lives! Oorah![/quote]

That is great :slight_smile:

127

[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
You’re missing the point that the pregnancies do not have to happen. Women are using abortion as birth control. If murdering babies was illegal there would be far less unwanted pregnancies. There are many people that would love to adopt babies but can’t.

If doing a rosary walk or holding a sign gets one person to think about and change their decision then it is worth it. [/quote]

The fact that so many women use abortion for birth control is a sad fact indeed! That many men take no responsibility for birth-control is tragic as well. It is difficult for resonsible people to imagine an unwanted pregnancy with all the prevention options available. What I want is to see discussion…like this thread, and more. I want discussion with our sons and daughters, with our parents, brothers, and sisters. In our churches and at our social gatherings. I want any change that happens to be the result of persuasion and individual conviction, not by way of written law.

[/quote]

Yes. You are right. We need to communicate with our sons and daughters. Let them know that anytime you have sex there is a chance of pregnancy. Are they ready to have a child? I was so upset that my daughter’s middle school taught her sex education without my permission. Usually a form is sent home to sign. I had several separate conversations with her about abstinence and waiting for marriage.

I do not want birth control to be illegal. It is destroying our culture and women’s bodies but that needs to be a personal choice. The barrier of birth control is destroying marriages but not everyone looks at marriage as a sacrament. But abortion is murder and should be illegal like any other murder.

128

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.

Sorry, I don’t agree…when abortion and contraception were illegal, we didn’t have all this trouble.

“Government is to govern those who can’t govern themselves.” - Burke(?)…like innocent children.[/quote]

While NFP (natural family planning) is 99% reliable. You do have to abstain from sex but that gives you time to build on other parts of your relationship.

I do feel that abortion and artificial birth control has destroyed the family but I am not sure that we could make ABC illegal.

129

Laws are to protect the innocent. Who could be more innocent than a little baby? Abortion = murder. Needs to be a law against.

I am okay with ABC being legal. Another plug for NFP, the husband is pro-active in the process. And it doesn’t mess up the women’s hormones or increase her chance of cancer or strokes.

130

I just wanted to add that I do know how it feels to have an unwanted pregnancy. I had a 1 1/2 year old and a 7 month old when I became pregnant for the third time. I read the pregnancy test and cried. I never even considered killing my baby. It was a tough pregnancy and exhausting when he was a baby but the world would be missing an amazing kid if I had killed him.

131

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.

Sorry, I don’t agree…when abortion and contraception were illegal, we didn’t have all this trouble.

“Government is to govern those who can’t govern themselves.” - Burke(?)…like innocent children.[/quote]

While NFP (natural family planning) is 99% reliable. You do have to abstain from sex but that gives you time to build on other parts of your relationship.

I do feel that abortion and artificial birth control has destroyed the family but I am not sure that we could make ABC illegal. [/quote]

Just wow.

NFP has been demonstrated to have a ~25% failure rate.

The perfect use pregnancy rate of the pill is 0.3%.

Condoms are 2%.

Do not spread false information, especially when people who don’t know better may listen to your bullshit. The only 100% effective method is abstaining, and that’s not going to happen as long as sex feels as good as it does.

132

[quote]cvb wrote:
I just wanted to add that I do know how it feels to have an unwanted pregnancy. I had a 1 1/2 year old and a 7 month old when I became pregnant for the third time. I read the pregnancy test and cried. I never even considered killing my baby. It was a tough pregnancy and exhausting when he was a baby but the world would be missing an amazing kid if I had killed him. [/quote]

And it was your choice to bring the baby to term. And therein lies the whole fucking point. IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.

133

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
I just wanted to add that I do know how it feels to have an unwanted pregnancy. I had a 1 1/2 year old and a 7 month old when I became pregnant for the third time. I read the pregnancy test and cried. I never even considered killing my baby. It was a tough pregnancy and exhausting when he was a baby but the world would be missing an amazing kid if I had killed him. [/quote]

And it was your choice to bring the baby to term. And therein lies the whole fucking point. IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.[/quote]

Cart is before horse, my friend.

The choice happened before the act of conception. After that, another party is introduced and that party has no say in the matter. This is only ever a dispute in this argument.

Here’s a new question for you. Using the above logic, should or should not a woman be allowed to drink alcohol, smoke cigarrettes, and use however much of whatever drugs she wants to use during pregnancy?

If not, why not?

134

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Deorum made a valid point before. Instead of going for walks and holding up signs, why don’t you all adopt these children that would have been otherwise aborted?[/quote]

We do.

Kind of hard to adopt dead children, though isn’t it?[/quote]

So you have children? Adopted? How many?[/quote]

Wait a minute. Mak, so are you paying for abortions?

In any case, it is the responsibility of those who set the series of events into motion to accept responsibility for the consequences of those events. And as far as acting like people who are against murdering babies should be adopting all of those babies, that’s a ridiculous argument and you certainly must know it.

Here’s a question for you: Are you against child abuse?
[/quote]

I don’t follow. Why would I pay for abortions?[/quote]

Will you, then, agree to take responsibility for all of the abortions that occur?

A very large portion of the pro-life argument, at its core, revolves around personal responsibility. Our personally agreeing to adopt all of the babies we would have women not abort (putting aside that the “argument” is, to begin with, fallacious and intentionally aimed at stifling further discussion), would actually hurt our own argument, as we would still be accepting, even encouraging, out-of-wedlock, unrestricted, procreation and the abrogation of personal responsibility as regards child-rearing.

135

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

You have like a 70% chance of getting pregnant in ten years using the Pill and a Condom.

Sorry, I don’t agree…when abortion and contraception were illegal, we didn’t have all this trouble.

“Government is to govern those who can’t govern themselves.” - Burke(?)…like innocent children.[/quote]

While NFP (natural family planning) is 99% reliable. You do have to abstain from sex but that gives you time to build on other parts of your relationship.

I do feel that abortion and artificial birth control has destroyed the family but I am not sure that we could make ABC illegal. [/quote]

Just wow.

NFP has been demonstrated to have a ~25% failure rate.

The perfect use pregnancy rate of the pill is 0.3%.

Condoms are 2%.

Do not spread false information, especially when people who don’t know better may listen to your bullshit. The only 100% effective method is abstaining, and that’s not going to happen as long as sex feels as good as it does.[/quote]

There is the rhythm method that has a very high failure rate and NFP has a 99% success rate when followed. I can post some links later today. I am heading to the gym right now. The problem is you need to abstain if you don’t want to get pregnant. So it requires self control.

I have heard that condoms have a 20% failure rate. That sounds accurate for the pill as long as you take it every day at the same time and are not taking any meds that affect it. But there are many health risks with the pill. It is poison.

136

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]cvb wrote:
I just wanted to add that I do know how it feels to have an unwanted pregnancy. I had a 1 1/2 year old and a 7 month old when I became pregnant for the third time. I read the pregnancy test and cried. I never even considered killing my baby. It was a tough pregnancy and exhausting when he was a baby but the world would be missing an amazing kid if I had killed him. [/quote]

And it was your choice to bring the baby to term. And therein lies the whole fucking point. IT WAS YOUR CHOICE.[/quote]

It is not a choice, it is a baby.

137

[quote]Cortes wrote:

Will you, then, agree to take responsibility for all of the abortions that occur?

A very large portion of the pro-life argument, at its core, revolves around personal responsibility. Our personally agreeing to adopt all of the babies we would have women not abort (putting aside that the “argument” is, to begin with, fallacious and intentionally aimed at stifling further discussion), would actually hurt our own argument, as we would still be accepting, even encouraging, out-of-wedlock, unrestricted, procreation and the abrogation of personal responsibility as regards child-rearing.

[/quote]

Great post. People are selfish. They want to do what they want, when they want with who they want and the hell with the consequences. This needs to change. Our country is falling apart.

138

[quote]Makavali wrote:
NFP has been demonstrated to have a ~25% failure rate.
[/quote]

Prove it. Where is your source, because all mine say 99%.

139

Wait, natural family planning as in abstinence? How could that have a failure rate?

Or are you talking rhythm method? Because I was just in a pre-marital class that said the rhythm method, if followed to 100% has a 20% failure rate.

140

Effectiveness of NFP

Not just for Catholics

Homilies for Give Life

http://onemoresoul.com/category/contraception

Interesting Homilies from above

An April 2009 study by Jessica Dolle et al. of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center examining the relationship between oral contraceptives (OCs) and triple-negative breast cancer (TNBC) in women under age 45 contained an admission from U.S. National Cancer Institute (NCI) researcher Louise Brinton and her colleagues (including Janet Daling) that abortion raises breast cancer risk by 40%. [1]

Additionally, Dolleâ??s team showed that women who start OCs before age 18 multiply their risk of TNBC by 3.7 times and recent users of OCs within the last one to five years multiply their risk by 4.2 times. TNBC is an aggressive form of breast cancer associated with high mortality.

â??Although the study was published nine months ago,â?? observed Karen Malec, president of the Coalition on Abortion/Breast Cancer, â??the NCI, the American Cancer Society, Susan G. Komen for the Cure and other cancer fundraising businesses have made no efforts to reduce breast cancer rates by issuing nationwide warnings to women.â??

Bone lose

Nearly half of women using depot medroxyprogesterone acetate (DMPA), commonly known as the birth control shot, will experience high bone mineral density (BMD) loss in the hip or lower spine within two years of beginning the contraceptive, according to researchers at the University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston.

The study, reported in the January 2010 issue of Obstetrics and Gynecology, was the first to show that women on DMPA who smoke, have low levels of calcium intake and never gave birth are at the highest risk for BMD loss. The researchers also found that high risk women continued to experience significant losses in BMD during the third year of DMPA use, especially in the hip â?? the most common facture site in elderly women.

DMPA is an injected contraceptive administered to patients every three months. According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, more than two million American women use DMPA, including approximately 400,000 teens. DMPA is relatively inexpensive compared with some other forms of birth control, has a low failure rate and doesnâ??t need to be administered daily, which contributes to the contraceptiveâ??s popularity

Very interest articles.

Also, I won’t give money to Susan G. Komen because they give money to planned parenthood.