It never fully goes away, my friend. I had one relapse 15 years ago, and before I hadn’t used for 6 or 7 years.
I had a dream where I was dialing one of my old dealer’s number, which had been long forgotten. Well, THE FUCKING DREAM MADE ME REMEMBER THE NUMBER! I couln’t shake it off, and ended up calling the number. It really was the right number! Fucking dude picked up the phone, and there I went.
Fuuck… I felt so guilty after I came down. Like I said, 15 years have gone by, and shit still lurks in the back of my head.
I always remain cognizant of that after not drinking for a few years, then picking up again.
Right back, like I never stopped. Got hammered, and got back up the next day the same way- feeling kinda dumb for having done it, then back to the meetings.
Lol yes, exactly.
I sort of envy those guys I spoke of early, who could just go on chipping for years and be fine.
Even falling in love with a chick might trigger a relapse for me, with the brain releasing dopamine and whatnot. How cray is that.
. Its not over till its over. I wish them well but there could be something lurking in there they aren’t ready for. A simple root canal or ingrown toenail could bring it out.
At least you know. Might not help, but its better than a death spiral with no idea why.
I know the bupe shot helps a lot for people who have just come off but that wasn’t around when you guys were using
Depot buprenorphine is high enough dose to reach 95% receptor occupancy, breaking through the bloackade
Likely leads to fatal OD, suppresses cravings and unlike suboxone which can be abused to some extent (though not close to heroin I’ve been told) this is a depot injection thst releases over 1-3 months
It’s also self tapering, way easier to get off relative to suboxone. In Australia most addicts get the shot now
I think the real insidious nature is… say you are a chipper. You take a tablet of MS Contin every week or you smoke heroin once a month
Now BOOM you catch your fiancé cheating on you… or your mother dies (and you were close)
You just want to escape… you want that familiar warmth like a very comfy, heavy blanket wrapped around you… shielding you from the cold, cruel nature of life
Once a month becomes on the weekends which includes a weekday which turns to everyday. 20$ fixed you for a day now it’s 200$
Chippers are chippers until they aren’t. Some never get addicted and I’d love scientists to study the brains/genetic profiles of those people
Very long half life, apparently harder to get off because the acute withdrawl (let alone PAWS) lasts months
Suboxone also I’ve heard is hard to quit but the shot is apparently effortless
A friend of mine informed me yesterday that he just got 5 years clean. I’m really happy for him. I gave him a little guidance into rehab and pointed in the right direction after for a good while. He found his feet and really has run with it too.
There are so many quacked out, unsubstantiated and poorly administered “solutions” to it.
Oh… my GP (PCP equivalent) works with addicts and does a lot of unconventional medicine, like he prescribed anabolics to aids patients back in the day before antiretroviral meds were available
He told me the shot has helped a lot of his addicts get off permenantly, and eventually off opiates altogether whereas otherwise many of them just couldn’t kick suboxone and/or when they did cravings were overwhelming or they’d occasionally relapse (take a couple days off the subs etc)
Whereas the shot can be tapered very slowly (either self tapering) or tapered incredibly slowly over months to years
It has a way higher success rate re keeping peoole off permenantly relative to suboxone and methadone
Obviously still needs to be done in conjunction with NA meetings and therapy.
There is some research into opiate drugs that abnormally bind to the receptor in a manner that alleviates withdrawl and lowers tolerance
One of them has already hit the black market apparently… I’m not sure what to think of that
Anecdotes are you can kick a habit without discomfort and reset tolerance and from a detox standpoint that’d be great but the cynic in me genuinely thinks addicts will use it to reset tolerance so they can keep getting high (as opposed to getting off the drugs).
There’s naltrexone which blocks opiate receptors in high doses but it also tends to block production of endogenous endorphins…. Say you feel good when you go for a run? NOT ANYMORE!!! Lol
Yeah. I’ve heard of addicts doing this. And using suboxone to get through the day at work (big thing where my wife worked! Turns out the supervisors were the suppliers!) and all kinds of stuff.
Ultimately to develop long term sobriety people need to address the lack of coping skills that make using again seem like an option.
Thats where therapy and other forms of fellowship really shine.
So when life goes Boom! you’re there and available to be helpful instead of using it as a reason to use and making a problematic situation worse.
Drug usage might go up though, but it’s not like the situation is good now.
I’m not personally advocating legalization of hard drugs, but just to stop punishing the users.
Portugal did decriminalize drug usage few years back, the results have been mixed. Some stuff is better, some worse. Portugal had massive drug problem before, and the situation has not spiralled down since they stopped hunting drug users.
I think this is key. The war on drugs has not been successful if the idea is to prevent drug use vs. continuously locking people away for getting a mind bend out of a substance other than alcohol, or now THC is most regions.
At what point do we consider a new approach? 80 years of failure? 300?
There won’t be a perfect answer because everyone has a different opinion of what “good” looks like but are current objective goals being accomplished? No.
Locking up some dude with a gram of coke in his pocket while out on a Saturday night is not convincing the cartels to flip to wheat farming. It’s also not effectively stopping demand.
I personally have no problem with drug use, but also wouldn’t have a problem with regulation similar to alcohol (a drug). Specific and regulated distribution channels, public use laws et cetera.
And, quality control. No more sneaky fentanyl laced overdoses.
There are some things we are just consigned to live with. Drugs have been a part of humanity since the beginning of recorded history and they’re not going anywhere. How we approach them and their use is the question, and just throwing people in jail and ruining their lives doesn’t make sense to me personally.
Lots of stories above about use and addiction and I don’t believe any one of them deserves to be in jail right now because of said use. The discussion around consequence can be sad but they each made a personal decision with consequences to handle. And that’s life in general.
I used to party pretty hard. Alcohol and cocaine were my preferences, occasionally weed but never socially. I’m very retracted and anti-social when smoking weed, it’s more of a night cap or unplugged afternoon from time to time for me.
Anyways, I did not get addicted. There were times I wanted a line, and it’s been years but I occasionally still think it would be fun, however it’s similar to how sometimes I really want some brisket. The fatty, smoky cuts. Just an enjoyable thing, but I can say no if I’m managing macros.
I know lots of people in this boat personally. I also know people who wound up addicted, and see their life long struggle. I’d say it’s less than one in ten in my experience. But, my experience wasn’t hiding. It was amplifying an already fun time, so I think mental state has more to do with it than anything.
Just because DARE said drugs will make the earth melt in to nothing doesn’t mean it’s true.
I swear some people, including on this board, would block the sun if they could. To prevent skin cancer, for all of our sake. Well fuck you, I like the sun. And tanned women.
I think I come across like this sometimes, but I am actually torn on the subject and want a balance. I think it’s reasonable to think that harsh measures can correct a problem, such as the example I gave of ruthlessly dealing with large-scale distributors (eg, cartels, organized crime organizations, the supply side). Would this work? I don’t know. It seems reasonable.
Then there’s the idea that if we legalize drugs, then there will be no drug trade and all the social problems that come with it, which makes sense too. I do like this idea, but I am also aware that many people simply do not behave themselves and start doing very dumb and dangerous shit to the rest of us if given such liberal freedoms. I’d actually love to live in a libertarian world in which people freely associate, behave themselves, do what they want with their bodies, and respect others’ spaces, choices, and preferences, and that all personal choices to not harm others. I’ve concluded that such a setup only works for high-IQ, high-agency, and disciplined people, and that I do not live in a place of such people. I do not think I am special, but I think I have enough agency and discipline that I could get away with some vices to a degree. When I drink, I drink to a point of a mild buzz, then stop. I rarely eat desserts, but when I do, I have a very modest or sparse serving, and stop. When I eat out, and I get to about 90% of fullness, I stop.
Many people cannot regulate themselves. So in some cases, not all, people have to regulate them because of the harm they do to others.
Again, I am torn on this. And I said several times, I do not think users should be harshly punished for just using.
Perhaps we can discuss addiction here, which might be a derail, considering I am interested in the subject and because I work in nutrition, do want to understand the nature of food addiction specfiically.
Yeah, me neither. I referred to drug users earlier as the punching bags of the criminal justice system cuz a minor drug charge is like an easy win for a prosecutor.
The one main problem I see with use other than addiction and behavioral stuff is workplace safety. I’ve seen so many fucked up people do fucked up shit that gets themselves and others injured its disgusting.
In certain circumstance like that, I’d consider it an aggravating condition. Like, If you bust somebody up somehow at work and you’re high, you’re going to do some time. The liability stuff can be covered by insurance, but causing injury like that should be criminal.
So reduce the criminality for casual use, put the hammer down for negligent use.
I see it as one of the main drivers of criminal behavior. Hurting people to get money for drugs, theft, all of the related criminal acts like collecting debts & whatnot.
I also feel this is not an easy question, and I too have the dissonance about the subject.
I’m liberal in the sense that I don’t usually feel that I’m in a position to tell other people how to live.
But I also think people often make bad decisions, just look at the obesity epidemic. That’s what happens when you give people endless kalories to consume. So I encourage regulation, and do not see guns and drugs being open for everybody a good societal model.
So it’s tricky. In a perfect world everybody would be responsible user and we would not need to have this discussion.
The one clear statement (which majority here seem to agree) is that drug users should not be punished. I’m also open to well regulated legalization of milder stuff (everything is illegal here).
Agreed, however I also think it’s important to consider goal agreement. From the inferred perspective of ending drug use, I agree attacking the supply chain makes sense, but top down. The petty user arrests and street level informant roll-ups aren’t doing it. Dismantling production would be key, but of course is mired in an international political landscape.
My position is that I don’t have a problem with drug use, and regulating production and distribution plus usage laws similar to alcohol makes sense. Historically drugs have been used recreationally, religiously and as communal societal rituals, they’ve also been ostracized and penalized. They’re always present, however. Especially alcohol.
Where ideology starts for me is when we begin to regulate others for our perceived benefit. Of course there has to be lines, but I personally believe we can relax those with drug use from current process.
A) Regulating others to our personal views - it’s not my business to tell someone else how to live. Inform, enable decision making, get out of the way. Two way street.
B) Danger to others - life inherently contains danger. If someone starts in on dumb and deranged behavior damaging to others, arrest them for that. Don’t ban the drug for everyone. I would relate this to the gun argument of penalizing all to prevent (poorly) a few. In other terms penalize the criminal and the crime, not the inanimate object he used to commit it.
When I was young I worked in a construction site with couple amfetamine users. They snorted some speed during lunchbreaks, after that they were intolerable company, but they got stuff done really fast.
I agree with companies employing private policy, testing et cetera. Most workplaces won’t allow alcohol as it is due to complications. I still see the same vein of regulation here. Punish the out of line act, not the substance.
. Its not over till its over. I wish them well but there could be something lurking in there they aren’t ready for. A simple root canal or ingrown toenail could bring it out.
you catch your fiancé cheating on you… or your mother dies (and you were close)