mainly not concerned over price, just don’t want to desensitize the testes to LH; apparently a certain level of desensitization occurs with each hcg dose.
I’ve read where some suggest including low dose test rather than running straight primo, this so one does not loose ones sex drive.
I’m curious if running hcg ED during the straight primo cycle would maintain the sex drive. Some of my research has lead to sources who claim that hcg causes aromatization in the testes, I wonder if this is at all doses. Also since LH is naturally periodic, does taking hcg prevent any down regulation at the androgen receptor?
There is no evidence whatsoever that using HCG at doses that I recommend desensitizes the testes to LH
Likewise downregulation of the AR is not an issue.
There is always some degree of aromatization of testosterone to estradiol. It may be the case that massive doses of HCG increase the amount of aromatase (I don’t know of proof, but as an apparent result of such use estrogen problems have been observed above and beyond what should occur simply from the T levels.)
Sex drive if impaired would likely be better with the HCG but moderate dose Primo-only cycles ordinarily don’t interfere with sex drive, probably because natural T is not severely suppressed, if even much at all.
Thanks for helping me brainstorm this.
I’m considering a approach similar to that which lightrider detailed in this thread, but my goal is no inhibition of natural T, so I want to avoid including test. I’m thinking moderate primo and daily hcg; or primo and eq along with daily hcg. Either way, I would not use for more than 8 weeks, at the end I’d use clomid therapy.
If you want minimal inhibition of LH production while on a cycle of this sort (Primo and HCG) then I’d suggest using a low dose aromatase inhibitor as well, aiming to keep estradiol at low normal.
This may largely compensate, in terms of LH production, for androgen levels being somewhat higher than normal.
Allowing estradiol to be whatever it usually would be with the high-normal T levels resulting from the HCG would result in a greater degree of inhibition, though probably not completely so.
(It’s a little problematic to speak of inhibition of natural testosterone production while using HCG, as it’s unmeasurable as to what part of the testosterone is artificially stimulated from HCG and what part is naturally stimulated from LH. This is why I changed the discussion to one of inhibition of LH production.)
Gonna try getting my hands on some Adex; based on some brief readings it seems 0.25mg ED will do the trick. Since this is a suicidal AI, how does the body typically react if you suddenly stop 0.25 ED after a 6 week cycle? Based on my brief readings, it seems like while on adex for some time, aromatase binds to the adex ‘substrate’, but I have to wonder if due to the HCG (for example) more aromatase is now present… I most likely have that all wrong…
Claus, actually I didn’t know on the other thread what to contribute, as the comments there were generally good. If you could post a specific question that you may have remaining on it, I’d be glad to answer it and will look out for it.
Really my main thought was simply that if you’re going to use an AI, you might as well go up to 750-800 mg/week, but on the other hand your personal preference seems to be to keep it light, so I didn’t think it worth adding that suggestion.
The AI suggestion is good, i want to be sure I’m informed before I proceed. Essentially, I’m using HCG monotherapy and including primo. The idea is that ill have a high natural test level in combination with my primo run, resulting in little if any suppression. I have little experience with AI, hence my concern is if there would be a rebound effect after stopping it.
the planned protocol is working fine. I’ve had other things in life working me, and as a result I’ve been procrastinating wrt aquiring the AI. If you had to choose between: Femara,Aromasin, or Arimidex; what would you select?
I do have nolva and clomid on hand (I purchased this a few yrs ago but i turned out not making the time hit the gym so didn’t bother using the said items). After some brief research, it seems AI are the way to go. I’ve read that clomid makes you get all emotional; I guess since it mimics estrogen- can you let me know your thoughts on this?
It is true that Clomid can cause a user, if male anyway (don’t know if this occurs with women) to have some difference in emotion. Whether this is good, bad, or of no importance depends on the person. For most it doesn’t seem to be an issue. For some, though, it’s a reason to not use it.
Interesting that you select femara; it seems like a harsh drug.
I’m using nolva (10mg), hcg (~150ui ED), and primo (400mg/wk)
feeling good; since taking the nolva, sex drive increased; been dieting slightly too and seem to be cutting up. I’m tempted to add my eq (ganabol) however, I need to do some more research, at this point my goal is to maintain my natural test to the best of my efforts.
Should I be concerned about estrogen rebound when stopping nolva?
If I bring some letro into the mix, i guess it would be ~ 1/8 tab (2.5mg tabs)
Some boards indicate that it takes about 1 month to take effect.
The only reason for seeming that way would be from writers who claim that utterly tiny amounts can cause total abolishment of estrogen.
I don’t think there’s any evidence in practice that this is the case, nor in any peer-reviewed medical journal. The only basis seems to be a study reported by the pharmaceutical company, which finds their product much more potent than anyone else since ever has.
It will take quite little letrozole to deal with the aromatization from only the amount of testosterone that results from the HCG use. For example, about 0.36 mg/day (total of 2.5 mg/week) will be appropriate for many.
Letrozole takes a while to take effect, as with any drug with a long duration of action, if one fails to frontload. Myself, I take three days’ worth on the first day so as to not have to wait so long, but instead promptly get levels up to what will be the long-term steady-state level.
You don’t need to worry about estrogen rebound with the steroid combination you describe.
Sounds good. Last time I ran gear (early 90’s), it was a classic dbol, sust cycle followed by a few 5k ui shots of hcg; I did not seem to experience any estrogen conversion until did the hcg (such pleasant memories of gaining mass strength, wieght, and being a general superstar). I did not use any support chems like serm etc, lucky me the only downside was a lengthy recovery time.
Anyways, this time I want to rely on my balls for all the test.
Had a hot flash or two when I started the nolva ( I was like → what the???).
At a cellular level, does nolva cause an increased number of estrogen receptors? since it’s competing at sites, is there more estrogen in my system (interestingly enough I’ve been meeting more women, and scoring more often with the wife - I thank hcg’s test boost, not the aromatisation process)
It seems the key to not getting shut down after this cycle will be a matter of understanding how to deal with the estrogen from hcg aromatisation and from the SERM, and not wiping out the estrogen with the letro.
