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Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
All due respect (and I do think you are a pretty smart guy), it seems like it has become mine and jjblaze’s job to keep grabbing your head turning it back to center; you tend to drift, man. Neither of us ever mentioned work ethic, or that immigrants are thieves, or anything even remotely close to those statements.[/quote]

Sorry, but when you give folks shit about not learning the language even though they have enough on the table already, it just seems to me like there’s a value judgement happening there. I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, but I guess that’s how it came out anyway. Oh well. And really, I’m not all that smart, but it doesn’t stop me from trying. :slight_smile:

[quote]A little anecdote, just to calm any fears you may have about me not seeing the human interest side of the equation:

Sometime around 10 years ago, about a week before Christmas, my mom and I were having lunch at a diner and hadn’t seen our waitress for a very long while. The busboy, a young Hispanic kid, was nearby and I asked him if he could bring us a shaker of salt. He stared at me, and wrinkled his brow as if he didn’t understand, and I repeated the question. He replied, “salt?”. I said “yes”, and he nodded and went back to the kitchen. He came back and gave me my… Silverware, which he laid down in proper order onto a fresh napkin in front of me. I realized what was going on and just said, “thank you”.

I didn’t want to embarass or humiliate the guy; he was busting his ass at a low-paying job, but, more importantly, he was making an effort to communicate with me in English. So he got it wrong this time, big deal. He tried, and that is all I am asking of anybody.

As we were leaving the restaurant, I went up to the guy, palmed him ten bucks and said, “Feliz Navidad, amigo”. Know what he said? Not “gracias”, but “thank you”. That’s what I’m talking about.[/quote]
Cool story. You see, this is giving them a chance like I was saying. And BTW that very was nice of you, I hope Santa hooked you up that year. :slight_smile:

42

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
tme wrote:
Fuck yeah, White Power baby!

Heil!

Dumbass…[/quote]

It was hilarious. Learn to laugh.

43

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
tme wrote:
Fuck yeah, White Power baby!

Heil!

Dumbass…

It was hilarious. Learn to laugh.
[/quote]

I laugh plenty when something is actually funny.

44

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

Sorry, but when you give folks shit about not learning the language even though they have enough on the table already,[/quote]

Aww, they have enough on the table, do they? Well, boo-fucking-hoo. I worked 2-3 jobs while going to college, and paid out of pocket for the privilege. There are plenty of free, government-subsidized programs out there that teach English as a second language. If they are as desperate and sincere about starting a new life in the U.S. as you have stated, this is asking very little of them.

Just so it’s clear, yes, I’m absolutely making a “value judgement”! It works like this: Any person that moves to a foreign country and expects that country to fully accomodate them by speaking their language, and adopting their customs, and further more makes no attempt to assimilate or learn their new country’s language, I judge them to be an arrogant, lazy piece of shit.

[quote]I wasn’t trying to put words in your mouth, but I guess that’s how it came out anyway. Oh well. And really, I’m not all that smart, but it doesn’t stop me from trying. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

45

[quote]PGreen711 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
If imms want to keep their culture and language, then they should stay where those things are the norm.

If I went to Belgium, for example, I wouldn’t expect the roadsigns and so forth to be in English. I would expect Wreckless there, however, to carry my luggage.

Just kidding, just kidding…

What if millions of Americans went to Belgium for a better life and to make more money, perhaps so many that Americans would be the fastest growing minority, you think there would be a lack of English then?

No way, the point is that business will accomodate people that have an effect on the economy, you can’t blame “imms” blame the businesses that accomodate them if you want to blame someone for the “problem”.

As a side-note if you went to Belgium you would probably be surprised at the amount of people that accomodated you by speaking English because American tourists spend lots of money.

What do you call someone that speaks three languages? Trilingual

What do you call someone that speaks two languages? Bilingual

What do you call someone that speaks one language? American[/quote]

I actually live in a town like that. Foreigners (not “immigrants”) make up 20% of the population with Americans and Scandinavians making up the majority. We have an English-speaking and a Swedish/Danish/Norwegian/Finnish-speaking school. The main complaint among the locals is that we make the house-prices higher, which is fair.

You can use French, Flemish or English in most shops. Across the street from me is Flanders. The families that live there are still mainly French-speaking. The main difference is another cable system.

Regarding the previous head-dress comments. In this country we have many Muslims, a large orthodox Jewish community and as a mainly Catholic country, a substantial number of nuns. Some of the Muslims and all of the others could be accused of trying to establish a separate identity within society, but would you tear the head-dress of nuns or Jewish women? Isn’t this just fear of change?

46

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
[…]
Since it is the destiny of the Chinese and Americans to run the world, we should learn each others language.

I beg your pardon?

Let me assure you, the world will not fall apart and the moon will not crash into earth, without America.
Also, the chinese couldn’t care less about global problems, they’re definitely not interested in “running” things.
[/quote]

Neither were we, until Der Fuhrer and Tojo tried to turn the world into hell. Like it or not, economic power usually precedes military power. A booming country with 1.2 billion people WILL be a major player; along with the USA, we will be hegemonic.

It will be subtle, but you will ‘dance to the tunes’ put out by China and the USA.

47

[quote]Digital Chainsaw wrote:
Just so it’s clear, yes, I’m absolutely making a “value judgement”! It works like this: Any person that moves to a foreign country and expects… [/quote]

Again, not trying to be a dick here – why the word “expects”? In the example you gave of somebody calling your office and demanding a spanish speaker as if that was a major problem:

You are a cop, no?

Is there a chance that the caller had a major problem like his house was robbed or something, and maybe his english wasn’t very good, and just to make things easier, wouldn’t it be nice to report your grievances to somebody you can communicate effectively with? If I just moved to France, and just got mugged, I would want to talk to somebody who spoke english if my french wasn’t very good.

It wouldn’t be like I wanted the entire country of France to accommodate me, right? This isn’t an example of me trying to make over the french so I wouldn’t have to expend any effort to assimilate, and that means I’m a lazy piece of shit, right?

You can cut the busboy some slack – why not the rest of them? :slight_smile:

48

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
[…]
Since it is the destiny of the Chinese and Americans to run the world, we should learn each others language.

I beg your pardon?

Let me assure you, the world will not fall apart and the moon will not crash into earth, without America.
Also, the chinese couldn’t care less about global problems, they’re definitely not interested in “running” things.

Neither were we, until Der Fuhrer and Tojo tried to turn the world into hell. Like it or not, economic power usually precedes military power. A booming country with 1.2 billion people WILL be a major player; along with the USA, we will be hegemonic.

It will be subtle, but you will ‘dance to the tunes’ put out by China and the USA.

[/quote]

Are you even able to imagine a future where the US comes fourth, after India, China and the EU?

49

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Digital Chainsaw wrote:
Just so it’s clear, yes, I’m absolutely making a “value judgement”! It works like this: Any person that moves to a foreign country and expects…

Again, not trying to be a dick here – why the word “expects”? In the example you gave of somebody calling your office and demanding a spanish speaker as if that was a major problem:[/quote]

Why “expects”? You wrote it yourself: “demanding a Spanish speaker”. Kind of suggests an expectation of accommodation, don’t you think?

No. Where did you get that idea? I work for a mortgage company.

[quote]Is there a chance that the caller had a major problem like his house was robbed or something, and maybe his english wasn’t very good, and just to make things easier, wouldn’t it be nice to report your grievances to somebody you can communicate effectively with? If I just moved to France, and just got mugged, I would want to talk to somebody who spoke english if my french wasn’t very good.

It wouldn’t be like I wanted the entire country of France to accommodate me, right? This isn’t an example of me trying to make over the french so I wouldn’t have to expend any effort to assimilate, and that means I’m a lazy piece of shit, right?[/quote]

If you had lived there for any significant length of time (6 months or more), and could not speak even rudimentary French (which is the subject at hand, not some fictional scenario), then, yes, you would be.

Because the busboy was trying to speak English, not hanging around for a decade or more, expecting everyone to confom to him. I thought I made the difference clear in the post.

What I don’t get is, in one post, you suggest that Americans drop everything and learn Spanish, and a few posts later, immigrants have “a lot on their plate” and shouldn’t be bothered to learn English. Maybe you have that kind of free time, but I do not, and frankly, the principle alone makes it a moot point anyway.